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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Sorry to have taken this off topic.

    Obviously I am not too familiar with either the TWH or Saddlebred world.

    What was shown in the video is beyond sick and I hope some heads will roll.
    . But kicking chains are not just used on TWHs or ASBs. They're used on many horses in many disciplines that...stall kick.

    Originally posted by drmgncolor View Post
    There are multiple threads on this Forum about ASBs and expelling the myths. Yet every. single. time a thread about TWH horses comes up, the ASB peeps get lumped together with the BL TWHs with someone spouting misinformation.

    As the owner of an amazing, sound, never been sored, former show saddlebred, I do not want to be lumped into ANY category with the Big Lick TWH. Ever.

    Now back to the topic at hand...

    ETA: You'd think as "gung ho" as you are about the NYC Carriage Horse cause, you'd want the ASB peeps to continue fighting misinformation about the speculation of abuse like the BL TWH. I would think you'd understand that.
    Agree wholeheartedly. We didn't bring it up, but when others start posting blatant misinformation, it needs to be corrected. One does not equal the other.

    That said, this is my last post on the ASB subject (unless some new stuff is posted ).
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
      ASB folks, please please please can we stay on topic?
      Certainly....as long as people who have no idea what they are talking about stop lumping ASB's in the same category as sored TWH's.
      I'm not a CPA.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by drmgncolor View Post
        ETA: You'd think as "gung ho" as you are about the NYC Carriage Horse cause, you'd want the ASB peeps to continue fighting misinformation about the speculation of abuse like the BL TWH. I would think you'd understand that.
        We have an opportunity now, maybe a small window of time to get something done. I would just like to see this thread stay focused. I do support the NYC carriages and go to carriage threads to post. We (very luckily for COTh lol) made it through about 8 pages staying pretty much on topic. It wandered off course, not in a malicious way. Some education took place. Everything is good.

        adding - if your breed or any other was having problems like the TWH have, i would come to your thread and try to support you too.
        Last edited by WalkInTheWoods; May. 17, 2012, 11:55 PM. Reason: added stuff
        from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

        Comment


        • Let's make sure that when thanking Pepsi for pulling their sponsorship, we also ask that they NOT support the HSUS with the money they are saving by not sponsoring the Celebration.

          HSUS did do the video, but money would be better donated to local shelters.

          I just have a gut feeling that HSUS will be after Pepsi for the sponsorship money.
          Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
          Bernard M. Baruch

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
            ASB folks, please please please can we stay on topic? You dont have a dog in this fight. This is our chance to make a change for some very abused horses. If you need to explain that the 2 breeds are totally different in their movement, training and treatment....... im asking as a personal favor that you open a new thread. I know it grinds you to be lumped with BL TWHs and rightly so, but please dont make it so people have to read through more posts to get to on topic conversation.

            Thank you in advance.
            I came very close to responding much earlier concerning ASB's simply because back on page 8 "5" asked if there were any other gaited breeds involved in the Big Lick type of training. Since a lot of people think ASB's are a naturally gaited breed, it would have made sense to answer her and would not have been off topic. However, I got busy at work and never got to it.

            Have to agree with others though - it would be so nice to not be lumped in with the TWH's for a change. In answer to 5, no, ASB's use similar equipment and there most of the similarities end. The ASB world has largely divorced itself from the Walking Horse world for a long time now because of the Big Lick atrocities.
            Susan N.

            Don't get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

            Comment


            • TWH

              I think Wayne Dean is on the board of TWHBEA,could be wrong,maybe the celebration board of Directors. but he may have some violation,also is a trainer.and has something to do with the TWH trainers asso.

              My point is they all are holding hands and watching each others backs.if those who appose soring and abuse of the TWH
              don;t keep screamin and giving these horses a voice.NOTHING will change.

              this ABC news report opened a door not just a window,but a door.we need to walk thru it,a screamin STOP THE ABUSE OF THE TWH.

              How can these national organizations,Ruitain,Lions Club Kawanis use these abused horses to make money.maybe they need to be asked. not the local good ole Boys the big boys at the National level. lets send them the News report.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Good idea amwrider. They have lost a venue. They may want to replace it with another venue of similar nature where there are thirsty people. lol When i was talking to the Pepsi rep today, she said it will actually cost them money in lost revenue for not selling their products at the Celebration. Maybe they would be interested in donating to, instead of sposoring, some horse related rescue. That would further their "apology" to horse people
                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  aarpaso - good idea - so many people to reach out to. Its been a way long day and im heading to bed. If anyone has any links that you want added to post 147 just let me know and i will edit and add, just to keep those resources in one place.

                  night all
                  from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                  Comment


                  • Watching that seriously made me cry,
                    I had an idea of what went on but it's much worse than I expected.
                    There is something seriously wrong with those people.

                    Comment


                    • I apologize if this was mentioned earlier - but watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dhSP6muJwLk

                      It is the class tape from the 1999 World TWH Grand Championship at the Celebration (show mentioned on this thread). You can see a "keg-shod" (regular shod) TWH in the ring to compare/contrast to the other horses.

                      The Jackson Family (who showed their regularly shod horse) had to threaten the show with a lawsuit to let them enter (the horse was otherwise qualified).

                      Fascinating stuff and when you see them in the ring together it is HARDBREAKING to watch the crazily-shod/trained TWHs - especially at the canter (makes me ill).

                      Comment


                      • .
                        Last edited by ThisTooShallPass; May. 20, 2012, 02:00 PM. Reason: .
                        "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bludejavu View Post
                          In answer to 5, no, ASB's use similar equipment and there most of the similarities end.
                          That was the answer that I thought and hoped I would get. They ASB along with pasos, foxtrotters and many other gaited breeds are very, nice horses and I am ashamed that I would imagine an overlap in training methods to achieve a gait but but after watching the horses in the available youtube recordings of the canters of dressage horses and canters of ASB vs big lick TWH being forced to 'canter' It is like comparing a ballet dancer to a tap dancer to someone being hanged in their death throws - the last being the Big Lick canter the one that makes me cringe.
                          A pussycat of a horse with a chewed off tail won the triple crown, The Cubs won the world series and Trump won the Presidency.
                          Don't tell me 'It can't be done.'

                          Comment


                          • What a horrible video.
                            Thanks for the link, WalkInTheWoods,
                            I put my two cents in to Ford...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Babcock View Post
                              I apologize if this was mentioned earlier - but watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dhSP6muJwLk

                              It is the class tape from the 1999 World TWH Grand Championship at the Celebration (show mentioned on this thread). You can see a "keg-shod" (regular shod) TWH in the ring to compare/contrast to the other horses.

                              The Jackson Family (who showed their regularly shod horse) had to threaten the show with a lawsuit to let them enter (the horse was otherwise qualified).

                              Fascinating stuff and when you see them in the ring together it is HARDBREAKING to watch the crazily-shod/trained TWHs - especially at the canter (makes me ill).
                              That's amazing footage. I'm going to be late for work now....I couldn't stop watching it!

                              Comment


                              • WITW, thanks so much for the video of Champagne Watchout. The girl who rode him is a beautiful rider and the only one that looked comfortable. His canter looks beautiful. The one that really struck me as horrific, though all fit, was the grey paint thing. He was definitely lame.

                                What has stayed with me through all this video footage is how beautiful the natural ones are. You could sit that canter all day. They also seem like wonderful horses to be around. Kind and giving. Thanks for showing the good these horses can offer.

                                I really can't get the ABC video out of my head. Totally shocking. No words really.

                                Terri
                                COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                                "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                  We have an opportunity now, maybe a small window of time to get something done. I would just like to see this thread stay focused. I do support the NYC carriages and go to carriage threads to post. We (very luckily for COTh lol) made it through about 8 pages staying pretty much on topic. It wandered off course, not in a malicious way. Some education took place. Everything is good.

                                  adding - if your breed or any other was having problems like the TWH have, i would come to your thread and try to support you too.
                                  VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                                    That's amazing footage. I'm going to be late for work now....I couldn't stop watching it!
                                    Champagne Watchout is one of the most appealing horses I have ever seen.

                                    I echo all the negative sentiments here about the exaggerated gaits of the other TWH; they are not only ugly, but downright scary to me -- doesn't look like anything from this planet
                                    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                                    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Amwrider View Post
                                      Let's make sure that when thanking Pepsi for pulling their sponsorship, we also ask that they NOT support the HSUS with the money they are saving by not sponsoring the Celebration.

                                      HSUS did do the video, but money would be better donated to local shelters.

                                      I just have a gut feeling that HSUS will be after Pepsi for the sponsorship money.
                                      YES YES YES - excellent suggestion. This is totally an animal welfare issue, but we know the HSUS will get an avalanche of donations from the exposure, and use the money for their extreme and onerous animal rights agenda. I don't want to see them get Pepsi's money, too.
                                      VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                                        Lightweight chains are used (though I've only seen them used when working the horse). I never saw anything cruel about them. They're loose, light, and literally like the horse wearing a bracelet.
                                        Unfortunately, this benign training technique will probably be swept up in the figurative raid of that part of the horseworld. Baby/bathwater.
                                        VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                                        Comment


                                        • I was in Shelbyville a few years back where they happened to be holding the big TWH show. All of a sudden the place emptied out and horse trailers were everywhere. Turned out the inspectors showed up to make sure horses weren't being treated badly, the news got out and the show literally shut down.

                                          The "Big Lick" people are lowlifes, it's a ghastly looking perverted horse gait. I've had 2 walkers and my mule's mom was a TWH and is gaited so I'm acquainted with the breed...these big lick trainers are scum when they train this way.

                                          Of course, Walking horse people don't have the market cornered on bad horse treatment...Rolkurs in the dressage world, and a trainer who just died rode Samuri hard to finish her x-country after she knew he was crippled (and was caught and booed on COTH about it). Lots of ill-treatment in many breeds.

                                          The HSUS and Pepsi both acted for publicity and for political reasons. I won't buy any Pepsi product due to company's support of gun control, but in this case, they did the correct thing. HSUS...the bad guys and some real bad people in control of that group.
                                          "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

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