• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

rearing

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • rearing

    A friend of mine said she taught her horse to stop rearing by teaching it to rear on command.
    I'm not too keen on believing her though.

    Has anyone ever heard of this or has done this?

  • #2
    I heard of somebody teaching her horse to rear and every time she had to go after it it was like 'don't go up, don't go up...'

    Not a bridge I'd trust my life to

    Comment


    • #3
      I think that sounds like a terrible idea.
      "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio

      Comment


      • #4
        Danger Will Robinson!
        <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, let us know if the horse has stopped rearing...

          Most horses who react to positive reinforcement from rearing on cue will rear more often. It's the negative or neutral reinforcement that will cause the animal to stop rearing.

          So, keep us posted...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Donkerbruin View Post
            I think that sounds like a terrible idea.
            Originally posted by ChocoMare View Post
            Danger Will Robinson!
            Really, there is nothing more to say.
            Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson

            Comment


            • #7
              That has Danger! Danger! written all over it.
              runnjump86 Instagram

              Horse Junkies United guest blogger

              Comment


              • #8
                I doubt it would work. When I was a kid, I taught a horse to rear on command (my mother claims she let me do it because "when I was a kid, I did the same thing"). Anyway, everyone survived.

                It will NOT stop the horse from rearing on it's own. Afterwards, my horse would rear on unwanted occassions. He had never been a rearer prior to this. The only thing I can say, is that both he and I learned to balance and not become alarmed when it happened. But good luck trying to stop THAT trick from popping out at unwanted moments.

                When I stopped asking him to rear ever.at.all, then the unwanted incidents pretty much disappeared.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Negative ghost rider, the tower is full of terrible ideas!

                  Honestly it is, has been and probably always WILL be my opinion that if you're not a trick rider or training for Hollywood, you do not need to be 'teaching your horsie to rear on cue'.
                  Owned by a Paint/TB and an OTTB.
                  RIP Scoutin' For Trouble ~ 2011 at 10
                  RIP Tasha's Last Tango ~ 2010 at ~23
                  RIP In Sha' Allah ~ 2009 too young at 5

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Horrible idea. There is really nothing more to say, but I feel like every single COTH member could respond the same way and it still couldn't possibly be said enough.

                    Worst. Idea. Ever.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Putting an unwanted behavior on cue in order to extinguish it at unwanted times is a known, accepted, and valid training practice.

                      At least, that's how it goes in the zoo/aquarium world when you're dealing with animals you can't really punish, like killer whales and gorillas. IMO a lot of the "universal" training theory that gets put out there is not so universal.

                      In practice, I think rearing is one of those things that, when trained, a horse will learn to do as an avoidance mechanism. I've watched it happen: a horse who has never reared a day in its life is then taught to rear and suddenly thinks it's an appropriate response when it doesn't want to get into the trailer, doesn't want to cross water, etc.

                      If it were me, I would personally want to teach the horse that rearing is ---NEVER--- an option, not that it's something that is OK to do at some times but not at others. But, I get where this person is coming from.

                      Also . . . WTH is "neutral reinforcement"? Not a term I've ever heard. Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement are both reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is NOT punishment!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I understand the basic concept, teaching bad habit on command in order to reduce the bad habit, but it is NOT a good idea for dangerous behaviors. If your dog barks, teaching 'speak' then teaching 'enough' can give you a way to silence the barking dog. But teaching rearing is like teaching a dog to bite on command in order to stop it biting. If the dog learns biting is an option, they will be more likely to bit in a high stress situation. There's a reason schutzhund dogs are dangerous and should only be owned by very experienced handlers. If you teach a horse to rear, they will be more likely to rear in a high pressure situation.
                        .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Horsie View Post
                          Putting an unwanted behavior on cue in order to extinguish it at unwanted times is a known, accepted, and valid training practice...
                          ...In practice, I think rearing is one of those things that, when trained, a horse will learn to do as an avoidance mechanism. I've watched it happen: a horse who has never reared a day in its life is then taught to rear and suddenly thinks it's an appropriate response when it doesn't want to get into the trailer, doesn't want to cross water, etc.

                          If it were me, I would personally want to teach the horse that rearing is ---NEVER--- an option, not that it's something that is OK to do at some times but not at others. But, I get where this person is coming from.

                          Also . . . WTH is "neutral reinforcement"? Not a term I've ever heard. Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement are both reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is NOT punishment!!
                          Well explained, Horsie.
                          Ring the bells that still can ring
                          Forget your perfect offering
                          There is a crack in everything
                          That's how the light gets in.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Horse owner: I taught my horse to rear.

                            The rest of the story: So now when he rears I can pretend I told him to. And convince myself he is trying to please me.
                            ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Anselcat View Post
                              Horse owner: I taught my horse to rear.

                              The rest of the story: So now when he rears I can pretend I told him to. And convince myself he is trying to please me.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well the Darwin Awards are always looking for candidates!
                                Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by SanJacMonument View Post
                                  Well, let us know if the horse has stopped rearing...

                                  Most horses who react to positive reinforcement from rearing on cue will rear more often. It's the negative or neutral reinforcement that will cause the animal to stop rearing.

                                  So, keep us posted...
                                  What are your preferred methods to nip this habit in the bud very quickly? I've got one who's suddenly got it in his head to pop little "wheelies" when he doesn't want to go where I'm going--not dangerous yet, but not my favorite resistance for sure. I'm not heavy handed or holding him too tight . . .

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Nip it in the bud - key point.

                                    Most young horses I've had (I'm not a trainer, personal horses, started young)
                                    have tried to put one or two in. I think it is part of the manual that comes installed in young horses. Seems to go away if ridden strongly forward, or pulled in a circle and ridden on.

                                    I don't really believe in letting them get good at this manoeuvre, tacked up and with weight on their backs. Mostly they don't know that it is not allowed.
                                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I understand the basic concept, teaching bad habit on command in order to reduce the bad habit, but it is NOT a good idea for dangerous behaviors. If your dog barks, teaching 'speak' then teaching 'enough' can give you a way to silence the barking dog. But teaching rearing is like teaching a dog to bite on command in order to stop it biting. If the dog learns biting is an option, they will be more likely to bit in a high stress situation. There's a reason schutzhund dogs are dangerous and should only be owned by very experienced handlers. If you teach a horse to rear, they will be more likely to rear in a high pressure situation.
                                      well, close, the idea is you teach the animal to do the behavior on cue- bark- and then if you never give the cue ever again, the animal won't do the behavior. However, this obviously won't work if it's a natural self-rewarding behavior. If the dog is taught to lie down on cue, and you don't give the cue, you'll still find the dog lying down to sleep. Or if you train the dog to bite on cue, and you don't give the cue, the dog still might bite someone who is attacking or pestering the dog.
                                      The other problem with this is that positive reinforcement trainers, especially people who "shape" behaviors, know full-well that if you spend time reinforcing behaviors for occurring then the animal is more likely to perform the behaviors in future even if no obvious reward may be forthcoming.
                                      What most positive trainers try to do instead is teach "incompatible" default behaviors. So if you don't want your dog to say jump up on people in greeting, you teach the dog that when he wants to greet people, he has to sit. He can't jump up if he's sitting. If you "proof" the incompatible behavior enough this works pretty well in real life. Many well-trained dogs, who are rewarded for doing lots of sits in all sorts of circumstances, end up offering "Sit" whenever they aren't sure of what to do, and that usually works out pretty well with dogs- sits are an acceptable behavior for dogs in most circumstances.
                                      The analogy with rearing is, I suppose: the horse can't rear if he's moving forward, so if you install a good "GO" button, with "forward" always being the horse's default behavior, the horse will never rear. I guess he might run away with you though- if you teach GO is good, you can't be surprised when the horse goes. You have to be careful with these things. For example, some people like to make horses "Back up" as a punishment. Run them backwards multiple times a day for minor behavioral infractions. Well, if you've ever met a horse who has been backed up a lot for this purpose, you soon begin to be angry with these people, because the horse's default behavior when stressed or confused is to run backwards. It's really fun to try to teach a "run backwards" horse to load into a trailer. And even more fun to have a "run backwards" horse do it into a ditch and flip over.
                                      perhaps the best default behavior to teach a horse is to "stand still". When in doubt, when stressed, it's always ok to just stand still.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
                                        What are your preferred methods to nip this habit in the bud very quickly? I've got one who's suddenly got it in his head to pop little "wheelies" when he doesn't want to go where I'm going--not dangerous yet, but not my favorite resistance for sure. I'm not heavy handed or holding him too tight . . .
                                        I know you weren't asking me, but I'll answer anyway. I spin them in circles (nose to knee and booting with the inside leg) at the slightest hint of lightness in front and then kick them strongly forward into a trot coming out of the circle. Then continue circling at the trot changing directions, etc. All while maintaining a very foward pace. When this goes well for a while and there is no longer any hint of an intent to rear, I bring them down to a walk and give them a pat. If they threaten to go up again, we commence the spinning again. Repeat as necessary.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X