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Need a rescue in the MS area...

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  • Need a rescue in the MS area...

    There is another private barn down the road from mine. The lady that has her 7 horses there had become a good friend of mine, even letting me borrow her truck and horse trailer while I worked on finding my own. I had actually never been to her barn until recently and I can not say how SHOCKED I was by what I say. She is older and apparently when her father passed away she no longer had anyone to help her with them anymore (I have been told her barn never looked bad when he was alive). The horses are fed twice a day- good feed and hay. Their feet are kept up decently. My problem is the state of the stalls. They are all racking horses, one is a retired state champion 2x over. They never get any turnout and she obviously has fallen years behind in cleaning the stalls. There has to be 2 feet of compacted crap in each one. It made me sick when she asked me to feed while she was out of town a few weekends ago. I have never seen anything so disgusting. I know they are her life and I have kindly suggested she sell them. But by guessing from the state of her dually she let's me borrow and her home- she is an prime example of a hoarder. I want to help- her retired state champion stallion is now at my barn after I talked her into moving him citing I could take better care of him since he is now 27 and needs an eye kept on him due to his health. But I don't have room for any of her other horses. And the 7 here aren't the only ones she has- she keeps 3 or 4 at a trainer's, all sale/show gaited/racking horses.

    I know I need to call a rescue. She needs a wake up call. But I want to make sure I call the right people. And around here saving horses isn't number 1 priority. Let's just say I have never seen so many stray dogs running wild in my life.....

  • #2
    How about you get your friends together and go clean all of the stalls? Payment could perhaps be the fact that she lends you her truck and trailer.

    Say it is for mothers day if she has children, if not, then it is just because.

    Everyone's turn is coming to get old, except of course those of us who are more than perfect and will never be kicked in the face by life or our emotions.

    I think if the horses are well fed and cared for you are walking on dangerous ground. I don't think she needs a wake up call as much as a friend. If you can no longer be that then move on and let her be.
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by horsefaerie View Post
      How about you get your friends together and go clean all of the stalls? Payment could perhaps be the fact that she lends you her truck and trailer.

      Say it is for mothers day if she has children, if not, then it is just because.

      Everyone's turn is coming to get old, except of course those of us who are more than perfect and will never be kicked in the face by life or our emotions.

      I think if the horses are well fed and cared for you are walking on dangerous ground. I don't think she needs a wake up call as much as a friend. If you can no longer be that then move on and let her be.
      ^This.

      Plus, if she does have pastures, maybe talk her into giving the horses some outside time.

      You have no grounds to have her horses taken away.

      Be a friend and help her.
      ************************
      \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        The payment for using the truck is we paid the $1,000+ dollars to fix it plus new tires. It wasn't even in running order. I will post pics as I think that will change your minds- the stalls doors won't close properly there is so much manure pouring out of them... I am talking anywhere from two-three feet of manure in each stall. Not to mention the piles of manure stacked up in the barn aisles from where she has tried to clean out around the stalls over time. The stalls are falling apart as well. She has no kids, never been married, by older I mean she is 50. I have offered several times to rent a bobcat and clean the stalls but she doesn't feel its a problem. She had the pastures torn down because she never used them. So these horses stand in their own manure and pee 24/7. How is that humane and not ground for someone to intervene???

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          And she told me last night she is in the market for a new farrier- her previous one commented on how bad the barn and stall conditions are so she doesn't want him out there any more, but any farrier is going to say something. The horses feet may be somewhat kept up but they are in bad shape.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wnfarms View Post
            The payment for using the truck is we paid the $1,000+ dollars to fix it plus new tires.
            Maybe you should do it because it is the right thing to do? If you think that she takes decent care of them in other areas, and you know she is elderly and could use the help, why not get some 4-H kids out there on a regular basis? Shoot, get the Girl Scouts out there to clean stalls, they still have a community service badge they need to earn, right?

            I don't know. I think I would feel better about myself and my community if I at least attempted helping before calling in authorities. Something doesn't sit right with me about borrowing someone's property often enough to feel justified in making repairs on it, and yet not be willing to lend a helping hand. It would be different if the horses were sickly and/or neglected.
            Sheilah

            Comment


            • #7
              Check your states animal cruelty statutes. If the way she is keeping the horses is not addressed in them, you have no case.

              Most states' statutes only cover feed, water and vet care. Long hoofs would be considered animal cuelty to a point.

              I am sure we can all agree that this is not the way these horses should be kept, but you can only intervene with the authorities if she is breaking the law.
              ************************
              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

              Comment


              • #8
                Not to mention, you don't want a "rescue." You need Animal Control. Rescues aren't law enforcement and cannot do a thing to animals or property without the law intervening first.
                Author Page
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                Steampunk Sweethearts

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                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I have tried my best to offer help.. I cleaned what I could my own when I took care of them for her when she went out of town. And its not their feet I am so concerned about... its the 3 feet of manure and piss they are standing in. I can only do so much on my own with my own job, horses and school. I tried the 4-H, they have no interest and I can't risk kids being out there since several of the horses haven't been out of the stalls in years- you can't even get close to them. One filly rears, bucks and kicks if you walk in her stall. She flat out told me one of the horses hadn't been out of her stall in over year b/c the door couldn't open due to the manure piled up behind the door and had so much pressure on the latch that it wouldn't open.

                  I do realize if anything were to happen I need the police to actually have the animals seized. I requested info on a rescue as they may know the procedures and what would actually happen. I can't get the cops to come break up the drag racers who use the road in front of my barn to race, didn't figure they would do much about this either. Felt that someone from a rescue coming to look at the barn and horses one day could actually tell me what could be done. Or help me get volunteers together to clean up the next time she is gone to a show. But it will take a bobcat and then some to tackle this place.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here are the statutes for MS:

                    http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/cruelty/ms_cruel.htm
                    ************************
                    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Animal Control. Sheriff's department. Get a video camera in there and take an hour's worth of footage as well as a still camera for closeups. Local media. You have plenty of options, and a "rescue" is not going to help you.
                      I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You said it all- the lady has become a good friend of yours, but you obviously are NOT a good friend of hers. The woman is alone without husband, children or siblings, and her father has died within the last few years. Her horses are ALL she has. You even post, "I know they are her life, and I have suggested that she sell them." WTF kind of friend are you?

                        Let me see if I have this right: Nice older lady whose Dad passed away, so now she is on her own befriends you and allows you to use her truck and trailer, but it needs repairs- which you do. Did she ask you to repair the truck? Did she offer to pay for the repairs you made? Was that even discussed befoe you borrowed the truck? Just wondering.

                        Her horses are very nice animals- and now you even have her old champion stallion at your place. Her horses get enough hay and feed, BUT -You don't like the way she keeps her barn/ stalls. The stalls may be very DISGUSTING- but they are HER stalls.

                        You are concerned about the horses' welfare but not enough to really put yourself out cleaning her stalls. She has seven horses at her place, and some at a trainer's, so now you think she is a hoarder. How many acres does she have? Seven horses is not all that many if she has land, and funds to feed them.

                        You are supposed to be her friend BUT now you want to sic law enforcement or animal control or a rescue on her because you don't like the condition of her stalls.

                        I think luvmytbs' suggestions sounded pretty spot on.

                        Sweetie, I've got news for you. You need to MYOB unless you are prepared to offer help. If you are relatively new to the county and she is from an old family or even just a long-time resident- you may just be biting off more than you can chew trying to get law enforcement involved-- especially if the horses are in good flesh.

                        There are not any laws in MS that require an owner to let horses have "pasture time." Many Racking horses are stalled 24/7 most of their lives just like many TWHs. There are also not any laws in MS that dictate hoof care standards, either. And there really are not any laws that say just how clean a stall has to be.

                        And if you succeed in getting her horses siezed, they will be sold at auction to recoup the costs of the sheriff's seizing them and caring for them while their owner tries to get them back. If she can't afford the board costs and court costs- they will be sold at auction.

                        If that happens, you may be giving them a one-way ticket to a Mexican slaughter house where they will be stabbed in the back with a punta knife to paralize them, and then hoisted up while fully conscious by a chain wrapped around their hind legs. Then their throats will slit and their guts cut out while they are still alive. Do you want that? I bet living in a filthy stall is way better than dying in a filthy Mexican slaughter house. They will not be shipped to Canada because Mexico is closer.

                        I think you just need to cool your jets, and either help clean things up or contact her friends or fellow exhibitors, or walk away-- and quit borrowing her truck, trailer and stallion, too.

                        And Guin- Your video ambush suggestions stink, too. You sound like some of those radical animal rights extremists with all your talk of pictures and videos.

                        If I could figure out who you are talking about, wnfarms- I would probably give her a "heads up" about your plans for HER and HER horses. If you are not willing to help her-- and trying to get her horses seized over filthy stalls--is NOT help in my book-- then just stay way.

                        BTW- If you REALLY wanted to help her, you could wait until she was away at a show, and just go ahead and rent that bobcat OR ask around for some out-of work good ole boys or African Americans to come do the barn cleaning in exchange for beer and a few dollars apiece.
                        Last edited by bayou_bengal; May. 2, 2012, 03:59 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Chill out, Bengal. I was pointing out that a "rescue" cannot do a damned thing about the horses unless an official department is involved, and the best way to get attention is to have hard, visual evidence. You think Animal Control is going to go out to the property if OP calls and says, "There are horses in stalls that never go outside?"

                          To me, horses that are in stalls knee-deep in so much manure that doors can't even OPEN is a PROBLEM. OP says that the owner is so clueless that she sees nothing wrong with her animals living in filth. Thus, getting visual evidence so Animal Control will actually GO TO THE FARM is a practical solution. Maybe OP has, like, a job or something where she doesn't exactly have time to dig out five years' worth of stall shit for someone else's entire barn.
                          I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bayou_bengal View Post
                            You said it all- the lady has become a good friend of yours, but you obviously are NOT a good friend of hers. The woman is alone without husband, children or siblings, and her father has died within the last few years. Her horses are ALL she has. You even post, "I know they are her life, and I have suggested that she sell them." WTF kind of friend are you?

                            Let me see if I have this right: Nice older lady whose Dad passed away, so now she is on her own befriends you and allows you to use her truck and trailer, but it needs repairs- which you do. Did she ask you to repair the truck? Did she offer to pay for the repairs you made? Was that even discussed befoe you borrowed the truck? Just wondering.

                            Her horses are very nice animals- and now you even have her old champion stallion at your place. Her horses get enough hay and feed, BUT -You don't like the way she keeps her barn/ stalls. The stalls may be very DISGUSTING- but they are HER stalls.

                            You are concerned about the horses' welfare but not enough to really put yourself out cleaning her stalls. She has seven horses at her place, and some at a trainer's, so now you think she is a hoarder. How many acres does she have? Seven horses is not all that many if she has land, and funds to feed them.

                            You are supposed to be her friend BUT now you want to sic law enforcement or animal control or a rescue on her because you don't like the condition of her stalls.

                            I think luvmytbs' suggestions sounded pretty spot on.

                            Sweetie, I've got news for you. You need to MYOB unless you are prepared to offer help. If you are relatively new to the county and she is from an old family or even just a long-time resident- you may just be biting off more than you can chew trying to get law enforcement involved-- especially if the horses are in good flesh.

                            There are not any laws in MS that require an owner to let horses have "pasture time." Many Racking horses are stalled 24/7 most of their lives just like many TWHs. There are also not any laws in MS that dictate hoof care standards, either. And there really are not any laws that say just how clean a stall has to be.

                            And if you succeed in getting her horses siezed, they will be sold at auction to recoup the costs of the sheriff's seizing them and caring for them while their owner tries to get them back. If she can't afford the board costs and court costs- they will be sold at auction.

                            If that happens, you may be giving them a one-way ticket to a Mexican slaughter house where they will be stabbed in the back with a punta knife to paralize them, and then hoisted up while fully conscious by a chain wrapped around their hind legs. Then their throats will slit and their guts cut out while they are still alive. Do you want that? I bet living in a filthy stall is way better than dying in a filthy Mexican slaughter house. They will not be shipped to Canada because Mexico is closer.

                            I think you just need to cool your jets, and either help clean things up or contact her friends or fellow exhibitors, or walk away-- and quit borrowing her truck, trailer and stallion, too.

                            And Guin- Your video ambush suggestions stink, too. You sound like some of those radical animal rights extremists with all your talk of pictures and videos.

                            If I could figure out who you are talking about, wnfarms- I would probably give her a "heads up" about your plans for HER and HER horses. If you are not willing to help her-- and trying to get her horses seized over filthy stalls--is NOT help in my book-- then just stay way.

                            BTW- If you REALLY wanted to help her, you could wait until she was away at a show, and just go ahead and rent that bobcat OR ask around for some out-of work good ole boys or African Americans to come do the barn cleaning in exchange for beer and a few dollars apiece.
                            Let's just say the OP does completely clean the barn on her own, then what? She can't do it forever on her own. And the issues will be even trying to get someone to come by to clean them on a regular basis if she could get the person to agree would be difficult due to lack of handling.

                            Horses living in 3' of crap is definitely an issue, but the bigger issues is could they get out if they had to -- what if there was a fire? You can't dictate that the woman cleans her stalls, but certainly the care standards are compromised if you have horses that are trapped in their stalls. It was my impression that this is the bigger issue for the OP.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't think an actual hoarder would be able, psychologically, to let animals leave their control and go to a trainer or to a "friends" house.

                              I am truly not trying to be snarky here, but I always question threads like this where someone posts something, gets called out for being heartless or stupid, or sneaky or whatever, and then they come back with all these "points of fact" that support them that were never mentioned in the OP. Like the stalls being so dirty that the doors don't shut properly. That is an important piece of information, and helps describe what the environment actually is. And yet, was never included in the OP that had other details like how many times the one horse had been state champion, etc.
                              Sheilah

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                OP, I'm curious how much you've talked to her about this?

                                What, exactly, have your suggestions been, and how, exactly, have you brought up the stall problem? When she said she fired the farrier for commenting, what did you say?

                                It sounds to me like she's in some kind of denial over how bad/serious it is. I'd be hesitant to call animal control or a rescue (though AC would be the better route) until I had a really serious conversation with her about it.
                                "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                                My CANTER blog.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by bayou_bengal View Post
                                  ...OR ask around for some out-of work good ole boys or African Americans to come do the barn cleaning in exchange for beer and a few dollars apiece.
                                  WHAT?!?!
                                  Jennifer Thomas Alcott
                                  Culpeper, VA

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Bayou,
                                    Help me understand what is the relevance of being an African American in the context of your suggestion?

                                    OP,
                                    don't call in the authorities. Leverage your friendship with this woman to help her understand that she's in trouble and get her to get help with the barn and / or sell the horses. She may very well have no idea how easy and relatively inexpensive it would be to hire a bobcat operator for a couple days and it would be DONE. Folks who aren't around equipment like that are usually amazed at how they can make short shrift of a seemingly impossible task.
                                    Try 10 times, 20 times, however many times it takes to help her understand. If she sends you away like she did the farrier, then so be it. (btw, it's quite possible the farrier quit and she's just saying she fired him to save face).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I can't even process bayou's suggestion of "African Americans" enough to respond to it.

                                      I am slightly surprised at the number of responses here that think it's ok for horses to stand on 2 (or 3?) feet of manure, whether or not it's "legal."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        What the?

                                        I've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone.
                                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

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