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Spin off: When you are the one being accused of "abuse"--video

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  • #41
    NBChoice - I would ride with you too. I know what chains (and rattles) are for - to make a horse pay attention to what its feet are doing and using them as they are intended to be used is fine with me.

    My 'abuse' problem wasn't training methods but was a 'starved and thin' horse. Said horse was fit, very fit and there were some people at the sel-care facility that thought the visible last ribs were the sign of an underfed horse. He was the 'skinny' stand-out in a row of fat (and I mean rolling fat complete with cresty necks) QHs, Arab crosses and assorted ponies, made all the more visible by his buckskin colour. Vet came to my rescue with the 'dog people' (humane society) when called to assess the situation and told the dog people to call him before trying that again since they didn't know anything about livestock.
    Founder of the Dyslexic Clique. Dyslexics of the world - UNTIE!!

    Member: Incredible Invisbles

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    • #42
      I used to get tons of looks from the bleeding hearts when I would get after my very tough/reactive/in your space youngster. Funny how she'd behave after a reminder of the consequences of acting like a moron. Best day ever was when I was riding and she was being a tool spooking at the neighbour's lawnmower that he just started. She and I had an interesting few minutes of "You're going to pay attention to your rider not the lawnmower" with the bleeding heart telling me she was just being "dominant" and I should have more patience for her. Whatever-finally got the mare to walk calmly around the ring once and called it a day.

      After I got off she offered to hand walk her for a few minutes for me. I gladly handed her over and within five steps the mare spooked into her and almost knocked her down (she's not very agile). She got up and it happened again. She told me that the mare was dangerous. I couldn't help but respond with "She's just being dominant-I'm sure you can work through it with some patience". She asked me to come take her back, so I did. She hasn't given me advice since.
      "Those who know the least often know it the loudest."

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      • #43
        One of my OTTBs managed, by himself, in the paddock, to fracture his coffin bone--10 days after I bought him. Vet and I decided the best course of treatment was wrap and rest. No pain meds, as we wanted to keep him off the foot. A neighbor pulled my housemate aside one day, wondering if she should report this poor horse. Obviously, he needed to be put down.

        I wish she could have seen him foxhunting 12 years later. I have never injured a horse I was riding. Every single injury to my horses, in 44 years, has been self inflicted.

        To the lay person who grew up on Disney and Black Beauty, any form of work, cue, or correction is abuse. Spurs!! Whips!! OMG!!! This is what makes people such useful idiots to the Animals Rights activists. Ignorance may be bliss, unless you're on the receiving end.

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        • #44
          NBChoice, I would ride with you too! I used to get comments about using chains on my horses since I board at an eventing barn. Once the people learned what they are used for they stopped saying anything. The Foxtrotter that I sold was gaiting horribly until I got him. With a pair of chains and some rail work he suddenly was foxtrotting great. It was like the little pair of chains made him realize what he was doing with his feet. My Saddlebred doesn't seem to care about chains though.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Flagstaff Foxhunter View Post
            To the lay person who grew up on Disney and Black Beauty, any form of work, cue, or correction is abuse. Spurs!! Whips!! OMG!!! This is what makes people such useful idiots to the Animals Rights activists. Ignorance may be bliss, unless you're on the receiving end.
            Well said.

            I shared my abuse story on the other thread. I'm glad the lady that confronted me was just the well-meaning grandmother of a lesson kid, and not some AR loony with an axe to grind and an appetite for self-promotion.

            http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...22#post6280922

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            • #46
              Originally posted by jenm View Post
              Has anyone else been accused of "abuse"?

              Oh, yeah. A horse I had leased to someone, and she had it pastured nearby, got reported for 'abuse, cruelly blindfolding a horse.' The horse was happily wearing a fly mask.

              And once had animal control waiting for me, they'd had a call about a 'starving' horse. My 31 yo mare, down to two molars, at end of winter, so yes, ribby. But at the time, eating more (grain mush, beet pulp, etc) than the other three combined. AC was satisfied (and quite apologetic) with my explanations on diet, deworming and dental care, and my offer to furnish vet's phone number. But, when they get calls, they have to check 'em out.

              Now, for my part, I've confronted folks at horse events, last one was a little judged pleasure ride, in a firm but friendly way. Actually the last one was a teenager losing it because her horse wouldn't sidepass (because she wasn't ASKING it to sidepass, properly, the horse was indeed doing exactly what her body and legs were 'asking') and going overboard on her temper tantrum. I first gently suggested she get off and call it a day and did, after she swore at me like a sailor, tell her to get off NOW or I'd be calling animal control.

              But then, I do know the difference and have no issues with appropriate discipline and training, including use of whips, spurs, and well timed thwacks along with other Come To Jesus tools. Sadly too many don't, and scarily, too many of those from HSUS and other groups are worming their way into 'enforcement' capacities.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Beverley View Post
                Oh, yeah. A horse I had leased to someone, and she had it pastured nearby, got reported for 'abuse, cruelly blindfolding a horse.' The horse was happily wearing a fly mask.
                Just last year, I was riding my very thin-skinned and fly-sensitive mare down the road toward home, ending a relaxed around-the-neighborhood hack. Two young ladies driving by pulled over and leapt from their car screeching like howler monkeys about how wrong it was for me to abuse this beautiful animal by riding her blindfolded.

                Yup. I ride my mare in a fly mask. It has ears, too ... wonder if they thought she was made deaf as well as blind? Poor Maresy was very, VERY good, but coming close to losing it with the one gal trying to hang off her neck and the other clawing at her face trying to remove the offending mask.

                My response was somewhat less than diplomatic ...
                Equinox Equine Massage

                In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
                -Albert Camus

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                • #48
                  Is it bad when I say Mr Mule did a half-assed job running around the pen?

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                    Is it bad when I say Mr Mule did a half-assed job running around the pen?
                    Thanks Alagirl, you almost made some lunch fly out my nose.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by coloredhorse View Post
                      Just last year, I was riding my very thin-skinned and fly-sensitive mare down the road toward home, ending a relaxed around-the-neighborhood hack. Two young ladies driving by pulled over and leapt from their car screeching like howler monkeys about how wrong it was for me to abuse this beautiful animal by riding her blindfolded.

                      Yup. I ride my mare in a fly mask. It has ears, too ... wonder if they thought she was made deaf as well as blind? Poor Maresy was very, VERY good, but coming close to losing it with the one gal trying to hang off her neck and the other clawing at her face trying to remove the offending mask.

                      My response was somewhat less than diplomatic ...

                      My response to some stranger clawing at my mares face would be justifiable if someone would have yelled Abuse! to me at that very moment. It would be the last time those two girls would have done that just out of pure fear.
                      Originally posted by dizzywriter
                      My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                        Yes. My private sociopath wrote a review on RateMyHorsePro about me that was beyond... I cant even describe it. She even said my farm was (dont remember the exact verbage) unkempt and unsafe and that I didnt take care of the horses. I am certainly not perfect but, just, wow.
                        That really sucks.

                        I have to admit, this notion has caused me to 'not' do some things that have maybe resulted in some bad habits for (one horse in particular) that I ride.

                        I like to trail ride/hack around the local parks here. Luckily, Mercer County has some dandy ones. Some rough and hilly, some open and great for gallopping !!

                        But sometimes my mounts will have a heart attack because of an attack squirrel, killer baby carriage, or horrifying old lady hobbling along with cane.... When I am home, I will 'disengage the hindquarters' and get some control. But at the park, I do not want to get into a situation where someone sees me turning a horse in tight circles and thinks I am 'beating,' them. So I will allow the horse to 'move off' and get away from the situation.

                        Which is probably the right thing to do at a park.

                        BUT, it can get the horses in the habit of, um, exiting the scene rather too quickly........ "I'm afraid, RUN !!!!"

                        And while I enjoy 'riding forward,' (indeed I enjoy bombing around when there are no baby carriages present) allowing the horses to 'escape' from the evil Godzilla squirrels leads to problems later on.

                        If it happens too many times in a row, and I then ride someplace where bolting away is not an option (lets say.... a crowded indoor arena...) then I may have a problem. And the horse may be quite P.O.'d when I attempt to disallow a hasty escape from the, perceived, life threatening pony with jingling surcingle that is being longed at the other end of the indoor.
                        "Friend" me !

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                        • #52
                          Oh! and yet another time I was accused of "abuse" was when my horse and I were out of the arena and someone decided to be a barn sour BRAT and kept trying to take off with me. One of the parelli folk saw me turn him towards a tree to stop him and complained to the BO. Who later came to me laughing and telling me that if they say anything to me about it to just ignore them because that is exactly what he would have done in my situation!

                          And then another time I was riding another boarders TWH who wanted to pace and was full of energy. The arena was too small and was full, so I took her out to the mini trail around the pond and just let her go. She paced around that pond on her own, no pushing from me, for a good fifteen minutes before she started to actually do her running walk and so we continued with that for a bit longer before she finally stopped herself. BO came out and commended me for keeping at it for so long yadda yadda yadda. Same parelli folks went to the HO and went off on her about how I was abusing her horse by riding it for so long around the pond. (The lady wanted the horse trained to do long trail rides with her and her nephew) Some how the parelli folks got to her (uhg) and HO pulled me off her horse's riding. Parelli folk put horse back into a bridle and bit that didnt fit (it clanked against her teeth! Thats why I took it away to begin with!) and did lots of ground training. Nephew still couldnt ride horse and horse went back to pacing. *sigh* Thankfully at some point after I left, HO realized she was wasting her money teaching her horse how to do lame tricks (seriously!) and got some help from a riding trainer and they are now doing quite well and *gasp* going around the pond at a RW!
                          Clancy 17hh chestnut Dutch WB, '99. Owned and loved since '04 and still goin'!

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                          • #53
                            OP....Wow, I love your mule!!!

                            Sand is slippery when dry.....this can happen when no one is free lunging them....it was really neat to see how strong and athletic your mule was in dealing with the situation!! It gave me a new appeciation for mules!!!
                            "Over the Hill?? What Hill, Where?? I don't remember any hill!!!" Favorite Tee Shirt

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                              Why was he running him in a circle? I agree, not abuse, but what's the point of risking injury in a round pen, making the mule run around when it's unfit?

                              This kind of stuff truly makes me crazy. There is no training at all happening.
                              agree.

                              not "abuse" but plenty bad "training" or better - thoughtless, inconsiderate and dangerous "work":

                              i am not surprised that the mule fell.

                              that kind of stuff makes me crazy.

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                              • #55
                                fwiw i would only punish a horse if is was disobedient - i think most people punish a horse when it doesn't understand or cant do what is asked.

                                punishing a horse when it doesn't understand or cant respond as you wish is bad training. period.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  The only thing wrong with my farm is, the road running right through the middle of it. Frequented mostly by "city-slicker" yuppies who don't know which end of the horse you put the hay in. . . .

                                  You don't even have to be "doing something" to be accused of anything these days. Look at the NYC carriage horse who got bouncy, threw a leg over a trace and managed to do a face-plant. Horse stood up without a scratch and was walked back to his barn, but butt-ignorant eejits piled out of the walls for DAYS demanding that horses be made illegal in NYC because of the "abuse." Finally, Mayor Bloomberg rolled his eyes and said the horses were "lucky to have a job." Amen!

                                  Because my horses are so visible from the road, and many are retirees so "ribs happen," esp. in early Spring, one old farmer-trick I use is to keep a nice plaid Baker fly-sheet on them. Dual purpose, so to speak. And in the winter, when the silly critters would rather stand there growing icicles off their whiskers than going in the barn sometimes, I blanket everyone so no one looks "cold" to the commuters. My personal favorite is folks who stop, horrified, asking "Is that horse DEAD??!!!" everytime someone takes a nap!

                                  These days I'm afraid to even give my horse a pat with the bat behind the saddle if someone can see me; given the stuff that gets on YouTube out of context and out of control, I think we're all at risk if we even RIDE.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    And then, Gods Forfend, there's the day you actually DO have to put someone down, etc. As discreet and out-of-sight as you try to be, there's always some asshat on a bicycle craning their neck making SURE they see something their life on Planet Earth to date has ill-prepared them for.

                                    But these are the same people who thinks their food springs shrink-wrapped and bar-coded from a test-tube; and come to think of it, it probably does. All they eat is yogurt.

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                                    • #58
                                      Sand is very slippery!

                                      Originally posted by Claudius View Post
                                      Sand is slippery when dry.....this can happen when no one is free lunging them....it was really neat to see how strong and athletic your mule was in dealing with the situation!! It gave me a new appeciation for mules!!!
                                      I've had non mule babies go down the SAME way with me on their back, not abuse, it's called I have more engine than coordination.

                                      OP your mule is awesome, very athletic! Best of luck to you both

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                                      • #59
                                        pfft. Mule blowing off steam. Worse things have happened.


                                        Someone today could have taken exception to me folding Scout like an accordion when he wanted to squat and squall and fuss about being ridden away from the trailer at a schooling show. Sucks to be you.

                                        Or when the donkey sulled and lay down rather than be trimmed. So the farrier sat on his barrel and trimmed him. Happened once, 12 years ago. call the law.

                                        or the filly who was " broke to tie" but fished and wallowed on my washrack then flopped and sulled, absolutely sulked her butt to the ground, head laid up against the wall of my barn rather than stand up and be tied. Poor baby. I striped her red butt to entice her to GET UP and then all was right with the world. Petted her and done. At some point, there are rules and laws to live by.

                                        Yawn. She'd been tied. but hovered over and babied. She ties now, so far as I know. God knows all of mine tie tie tie w/o question. I don't do 'question' on that regard.

                                        Guys, I had a lady tell me my horses shouldn't need fences if they loved me. As she stood there in her moccasins and pajamas, at the vet's, with her fruitbattin' dog on a LEASH.

                                        don't ever underestimate the power of kray.

                                        The trainer in question should just go about her business. She earned a lot of the grief she's dealing with, losing her mind publicly.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by alternate_universe View Post
                                          Can I ask, why? I think the poster is merely talking about those light chains that go on like loose bracelets. It'd be like putting a curb chain around their fetlocks. Certainly not pain inducing or permanent. It's just adding something like that gets them to lift their feet higher... just how some horses do when they first wear boots.
                                          I didn't think the poster was putting chains on that were causing pain. People that ride with chains have never been a part of my horse world. All I know is what I have heard over the years. Maybe not all of it is horrible but when I hear it I tend to think that I would not be interested in riding with someone who condones a method of training that may not necessarily be in the long term, best interests of the horse.

                                          I feel the same way about rolkur, big fat guys on reining horses with long shanked harsh bits, 'trainers' who poll their horses and pepperonis.

                                          Originally posted by Bumper View Post
                                          Wow, that was rude.
                                          Sorry. I did not mean it to be rude.

                                          Originally posted by NBChoice View Post
                                          That's fine. Not everyone is open minded about different disciplines.
                                          I guess sometimes because of lack of knowledge combined with a lot of bad publicity over the years. Knee jerk reaction.

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