Anyone have luck with signs? And a Ranty Novella

[VCT]

1. Electric fence. Although be aware that you NEED to, as in LEGALLY NEED TO, have signs every certain number of feet...and it's something ridiculous, like fifteen feet or something. If someone's darling gets shocked and those signs aren't up, and the parents decide to take some action, you're SOL.

2. Get a chain on your ponies. Seriously. Maybe it's just because I work on a TB farm where a chain over the nose can take a fire-breathing stallion down to a pony-ride pony, but chains have their place. Your pony should not be dragging you anywhere; let him hit that chain if need be, and use it for reinforcing. Rude pushy ponies are my pet peeve.

3. Treats or no treats, he should not be disrespecting you. All my horses get treats, hand fed. They all LOVE their treats and will give me big puppy eyes and pricked ears. Not a single one (even the came-to-me-mouthy three year old) would even think about nuzzling a pocket or biting me. I may sound like some harsh task master but I'm not...I welcome affection from my horses, but I don't appreciate being molested. I get dirty enough on my own without horse spit! Anyone who starts to nuzzle for a cookie gets a smack and a growl, and they pick it up pretty quickly. They can stand patiently and WAIT for their cookies, thank you very much! You cannot, of course, transfer these boundaries to other people (my horses will walk all over my boyfriend if I'm not standing immediately near by giving them the stink eye) but the fact that your pony is biting you is a sure sign that he needs some manners and boundaries. Mustangs and Haffies are smart, they'll pick it up quickly.

100% agree.
And as far as the neighbors... hot wire, no trespassing signs, and I'd go over with a release form that clearly spells out that you are not liable for INJURY or DEATH resulting from them interacting with your horses. I'd just be point blank about it, I've asked you to stop feeding them and stay off the fence but your kid was in the pasture and I cannot accept this liability. Your behavior is adversely effecting my horses training and I cannot be responsible for what might happen if you or your daughter continue to trespass.
*shrug*

[EquineImagined]

Shame we can't train the people the way we do with our horses. Next time an uninvited stranger comes by, I think I'll put him in the round pen, and work him till he lathers up. Change directions often. Then, work him some more. Once I turn him out, he'll be GLAD to go home! LOL

If only we could get away with doing this to people!

Would probably have to vet wrap hands so they can't use those pesky opposable thumbs to escape

AK: No worries! No matter how harsh it comes across, I value honest opinions and everyone's input. I wouldn't post anything anywhere if I was going to let blunt, straightforward replies bother me Nothing says opinions and input has to come in sugar coated time released capsules.

And thank you. I had to go look because I couldn't remember what photo I had up, that's the gelding I started as an ornery, pushy, 'extreme alpha' 8yo. He ended up being a great big love once he had boundaries set, very smart. Sadly he's the one we had to put down for what ended up being a brain tumor.

Wish I had videos of when I first started him....they'd be wonderful to put on continually streaming monitors placed about 20ft apart along the fence to show just how dangerous horses can be. People may think twice after viewing them.

[Bacardi1]

1. Electric fence. Although be aware that you NEED to, as in LEGALLY NEED TO, have signs every certain number of feet...and it's something ridiculous, like fifteen feet or something. If someone's darling gets shocked and those signs aren't up, and the parents decide to take some action, you're SOL.

THIS!!!!! If you put up hot wire without signs posted as per your local laws, you'll be in BIG trouble if someone - trespassing notwithstanding - touches it. Had a neighbor who went through just that - & it wasn't pretty.

[Ambitious Kate]

FG - I see your configuration in my mind.

I think I would invest in the following type of gate:

from your pillars, I would put in a section of iron tall fence about say 20 feet long, on both sides of the pillars, along the drive. At the end of that section, I would put in a tall gate, so now the gate is set in from the road 20 feet, enough for a car or truck to pull in up to the gate. This gate can be key padded.

Along the road frontage I would put up 5 or 6 foot no climb with two or three boards and electric strand at the top. I've seen this, it looks lovely, and someone discussed painting this black as it looks much more inaccessible. There is a farm near me with this kind of fence deep dark brown or black and there is something about it you just don't want to approach. Here is a link to that farm; if you scroll through the pictures you can see a sample of the fence but it isn't as clear how it looks to keep you away from the fencing as it would be if I were to go by and take a picture myself, which I am tempted to do:

http://www.trulia.com/property/photo...-06443#item-15

The frontage fencing might be expensive, but you need to weigh your risks and how much you want to keep others out. To me, with your problems, the inset u-shaped Iron fence and gate is a must and just those three sections might not be entirely prohibitive.

Just my opinion!

[2DogsFarm]

Silly EI!
Signs are for Other People

Since you can't physically be there 24/7 I think a hotwire with appropriate signage is your best bet.
You may have to run 2 hot - one at the top, one at kid-level.

I had a similar issue with a well-meaning, horse-ignorant neighbor feeding my horses while I was at work.
She asked me - after the fact - if it was okay for her to feed them one of those little alfalfa bales for hamsters (her grown son's pet had died and it was a leftover).
With her, I just explained I needed to know exactly what my horses had eaten so if they became ill I would be able to trace it back to food.

The other neighbor whose grandkids wanted to PetThePrettyHorsies, I told her they could feed dry spaghetti, one handful each kid & only from outside the fence.
The long strands made it safer for little fingers to not get fed along with the treat and the dry pasta is a treat I give the horses myself on occasion.

[goneriding24]

FG, I carried DH's revolver to the barn the day after "the incident". Dang thing is HUGE too! Not my weapon of choice for a CC piece at all... But the deputy told me I was clearly within my rights to be armed.

I agree, though... I don't want to have to carry things that far, either.

I have a cute little Sig Sauer that while small, packs a good stopping punch. Just be sure it's sighted in...

Honestly its the electric fence you need to put up slightly outside the rails, and personally I don't see what the problem is - I've used it and its not that expensive. I got a solar charger and it worked for 3 strands in 3 acres of pasture. It seems to me to charge one side of a pasture would not be that big of aproblem and would save you alot of grief.

That and a serious conversation with mother. I would not be holding converstations with the child and I would not be promising her horse petting time. Children only hear the promise and the permission, not the boundaries. Its really a yea or nay thing and you've got to learn to say no and don't say it to the child, say it to the mother. Its HER responsbility to handle her daughter scooting down the driveway and YOUR responsibility to handle your horse going past. Do not comment to the child, handle your horse. The attention YOU give the child is also the attention your HORSE gives the child. He will mirror you.

You can't say Yes on one hand and No on the other. If I said anything to the child, I would be pointing to her and calling out in my most threatening voice "Back off!" "Back off!" "Go Back!" and then turn away from the child. Turn your back. Ignore. If you don't, you have only your self to blame for her continued approaches. Just hearing you say "sometime" is encouraging. Stop saying it and correct yourself with the mother in a private conversation without the child present. If the child is present wait patiently while mother sends her way. This is for mother, not child. "I've changed my mind. Here's why. Keep your daughter away from the horses. She is teaching them to be dangerous and I can't have it. The fence is going to be electrified. You need to stay away."

From then on, blame the mother, confront the mother, deal with the parent. She can't get carrots to feed unless mother allows her access to them. She can't feed them to the horses unless she is given access to them. Don't give her lessons, don't invite her to the house or the farm until she's old enough to be responsible for her own actions - that may be never. In some kids, its around 14 or 15. Refer them to a farm for lessons, not yours. You can't invite them to have contact then tell them no, they don't discern the difference. It just has to be no, otherwise you can't complain about it.

Give an inch, take a mile.

I'm pleasantly surprised that my neighbors asked it if was okay to give apples to my Mr. Leo. I said no because should he get sick, I get to pay the vet bill. They said they'll settle for just looking at him across the fence. Besides, I'm pretty territorial about my horse(s). But, then again, I don't bother my neighbors llamas or horses either.

[Chall]

Install this http://www.gumball.com/v-line-vendin...-on-stand.aspx outside pasture.
Extend the dispenser with a pipe that flows into a trough inside the pasture, out of reach of human hands.
Kid spends money, horses fed what you decide, horses fixate on trough or machine.
Betcha Mom becomes more cognizant of what child is doing when she constantly asks for quarters.
You will make maybe a dollar a day?
Win/win?

I am, of course, not seriously suggesting this, just thinking "there must be some way to make money off of this"

[Event4Life]

And its posts like these that make me never want to have my horses on my own property....unless I had a very. long. driveway!! My job is with children, and my time to myself is just that...time to myself. Not with other people's children. It drives me crazy that parents seem to think the rest of the world loves their child as much as they do, even when said child is screaming on the train/punching their sister/generally pushing and shoving everyone unfortunate enough to be in their path. Anyway, rant over.

The kid is too young/undisciplined (or seems to be from the way you describe) to allow her 'horsey time' even with you supervised - as others have said, she will take this to mean she can come whenever she wants. Explain to the mother why it is not safe for her child to pet/feed treats to your horses EVER, and put the electric fence wire up. Point mother in the direction of a good lesson barn.

[SarahandSam]

I agree on the talk to the mom thing again, and I like the prickly shrubbery idea... and posting signs everywhere, at least from a liability standpoint.

But as much as I am generally a stick-by-the-rules disciplinarian when it comes to kids, I have a wee bit of sympathy for the child. I was five or six, with a horse down the street from me, and I was obsessed. I would be sitting outside that paddock every day, hiding in the woods, just watching. I at least had parents who would kill me if I went near the horse without permission, but I really, really, really wanted to--I was horse crazy and had no other outlet whatsoever. Fortunately, the horse's owner saw me one day, struck up a conversation, and let me come over for periodic "lessons" on grooming. I'm sure I was a huge pest to her, but she was always nice, and I respected that I was not allowed to go near the horse without her. (Of course, then I'd be sitting on her front porch waiting for her to come home... (; ) If the little girl is old enough and if the mother is reasonable enough that you can impress on them the importance of following the boundaries in order to do this, maybe you can set up a regular Saturday-morning "come pet the ponies" date or something. I know it's a nuisance, but a horse owner who did that for me make a tremendous difference in my life when I was little.

...Of course, if mom and child can't be disciplined about it, I say string up high voltage wire and zap 'em both. (:

[EquineImagined]

See that's part of my problem. I feel for the girl. There they are, two lovely ponies right next door (the pasture runs along the property line, right in view of her play set I believe) and there's me, the evil greedy tyrant who says "You can't feed them anything, unless I hand it to you to give them, and if your Mom says OK you can pet them when I'm here, maybe one day ride." (I should have known better)

Poor thing, she's only 4. So is my daughter, but my little girl is a very different kind of 4yo..if that makes any sense.

I pity the person who would have had to explain this to ME at 4! Although my parents would tan my hide for not listening, or for going behind someone's back and petting an animal/giving it treats anyway. True story, got caught petting a neighbors dog after neighbor strictly forbade it...I learned never to do that again....Just the THOUGHT of my parents finding out was a deterrent. Now, my parents weren't abusive by any means. I got paddled when I deserved a paddle, and that was it. Like with a horse, they made it short and they made it count.

I would offer to do a 'weekend pony rides' deal, but since 'pet them when I'm here' got taken too far, I'm worried about what kind of shenanigans that my inspire the rest of the week.

And then there's the kids across the street, who I have caught in the pasture once...but it was to retrieve their dog and they left the horses alone.

So...for now, time to go pick up some electric fence signs, and run that bottom 'dog/kid' level line.

There are some prickly rose bushes growing through the gate that's by the road....I should transplant them lol.

Or, I could just fake a psychotic break and run up and down the fenceline by the road swinging a bat screaming 'minemineminemine!!!!!! stayaway! minemineminemine!!!!!!!" Probably end up in a hug me coat and thrown into one of those nice private moon bounce rooms, but could be worth it

[Ambitious Kate]

I don't know why folks are considering "If mom and child are disciplined enough..." the kid came schreeching down the driveway on a scooter towards the horses and mom was unable to control her - that tells you right there they aren't disciplined enough. The whole thread is about how they can't abide by boundaries. They aren't disciplined enought to be given a set of rules and keep them, and the child is far far too young for you to be taking this on - four years old!! Uncontrolled four years old.

I don't know why its a discussion even to yourself OP - the answer to the mother is no, keep off, and you need to stop feeling bad about it. Turn away. Not your problem. why would you think of yourself as being a 'bad guy' about this? You're not a bad guy, you're the good guy, you're saying no so yoru animals are safe and you don't have to worry about them when you aren't there.

What if you had young children and some neighbor wanted to let their dogs in to play with them in your yard? You have to be able to say no and not empathize with whatever inappropriate needs other people have towards you and your property.

Good luck.

[JanM]

The kid is too young to be around your horses, so either the mother lets her run around unsupervised, or is fully aware of what's going on. I vote for the hard line from now on, because the mother and child won't stay away. Remember, parents who don't supervise their kids or teach them to behave correctly are the first to sue you into poverty. You have to protect yourself and your horses or getting nipped by one is just the start.

Don't even think about offering pony rides, or you'll find a bunch of kids in the pasture next time. And I wouldn't worry about the liability waiver, or the mother will sign it and consider it permission to let her kid and the kid's friends trespass constantly. Today she's treating and teaching bad behavior, the next time it will be the girl and her visiting friends or relatives having a little rodeo on their way to the ER and court to sue you.

Ambitious Kate is exactly right. And if you do the running up and down the fenceline thing, can I get a copy of the video? It sounds entertaining.

[SarahandSam]

Yeah, hearing her age now, four does seem too young to try to do some sort of supervised teaching thing. As far as the lack of discipline, if she were older, I would say that doesn't necessarily have to be a deal-breaker. I teach many kids who have zero discipline at home, but can figure out quickly that they are not going to get away with that crap in my classroom. They're high school students, so they're old enough to reason, but even an elementary school kid who's smart enough to recognize that she has a good thing going if she follows your rules could be trainable even when the mom is useless.

But an undisciplined four and useless mom--yeah, I doubt they're going to respect your rules if you give them an inch.

[JanM]

If you do the hotwire, then I would send a certified, registered letter to the mother with return receipt, or drop by and have the mother sign an acknowledgement she received the letter you are giving her about the hotwire and the treaspassing problem, reinforcing the 'no trespassing' or feeding the horses, or touching the horses rule.

They will argue in court that the 4 year old was too young to read the warning signs, and when she gets zapped that you are liable. And if you don't have a chain and padlock on the gate then get one (a combination one would be the best, they do make outdoor rated ones with the combination on the bottom).

[EquineImagined]

It's sad that when doing anything to your own property (or property you're using) you have to go in on the assumption someone's going to do something stupid, and sue you over it..It really is.

And yes, if I go running around screaming with a bat I'll make sure someone vids it.

I"ll even do a shout out to the multiple personalities thread and use many different voices/accents

[Sithly]

I don't know why folks are considering "If mom and child are disciplined enough..." the kid came schreeching down the driveway on a scooter towards the horses and mom was unable to control her - that tells you right there they aren't disciplined enough. The whole thread is about how they can't abide by boundaries. They aren't disciplined enought to be given a set of rules and keep them, and the child is far far too young for you to be taking this on - four years old!! Uncontrolled four years old.

I don't know why its a discussion even to yourself OP - the answer to the mother is no, keep off, and you need to stop feeling bad about it. Turn away. Not your problem. why would you think of yourself as being a 'bad guy' about this? You're not a bad guy, you're the good guy, you're saying no so yoru animals are safe and you don't have to worry about them when you aren't there.

What if you had young children and some neighbor wanted to let their dogs in to play with them in your yard? You have to be able to say no and not empathize with whatever inappropriate needs other people have towards you and your property.

Good luck.

Couldn't agree more.

OP, it was exceedingly kind of you to make that offer in the first place, but they kinda threw it back in your face. You don't need to feel guilty that THEY violated the terms of the agreement and now you need to terminate it for everyone's safety.

[danceronice]

Well, actually boobytrapping anything is illegal. So I wouldn't do that.

But put up hotwire with signs and have a CTJ meeting with the mom.

[Kitari]

I would hot wire on the outside and inside. Outside two lines, top and kid level, maybe 3 lines depending on your fence set up to discourage crawling through the fence. the inside one I would make a whole new fence usnf those fiberglass electrical rods, about 2-3 feet in from the fence line to keep the horses away from the fence.

oh yea and of course signs signs signs.

[ESG]

The kid is too young to be around your horses, so either the mother lets her run around unsupervised, or is fully aware of what's going on. I vote for the hard line from now on, because the mother and child won't stay away. Remember, parents who don't supervise their kids or teach them to behave correctly are the first to sue you into poverty. You have to protect yourself and your horses or getting nipped by one is just the start.

Don't even think about offering pony rides, or you'll find a bunch of kids in the pasture next time. And I wouldn't worry about the liability waiver, or the mother will sign it and consider it permission to let her kid and the kid's friends trespass constantly. Today she's treating and teaching bad behavior, the next time it will be the girl and her visiting friends or relatives having a little rodeo on their way to the ER and court to sue you.

Ambitious Kate is exactly right. And if you do the running up and down the fenceline thing, can I get a copy of the video? It sounds entertaining.

Wait - this is a four year old child that is feeding your horses on her own?!?!? With permission from her mother?!?!?

Completely agree with JanM; these are people who will take ten miles, given the proverbial inch. Not to mention that the mother is a freakin' idiot who should never have been allowed to breed; what mother with any sense does that?!?!? Allows her four year old to feed/pet a neighbor's horses on her own?

I feel for the four year old, but her mother needs a good smack upside the head, not an invitation for her daughter to take further unsupervised liberties with your horses. Don't do it. Be the neighborhood meanie and keep your horses and everything else that this fizzlewit would sue you out of, should her baby get hurt by one of your ponies.

[clanter]

And as far as the neighbors... hot wire, no trespassing signs, and I'd go over with a release form that clearly spells out that you are not liable for INJURY or DEATH resulting from them interacting with your horses. *

This is not acceptable as horses are deemed an attractive nuances in respect to children (lakes, ponds also fall into this classification).


As for the OP to have just an electric fence to keep the horses contained on the drive side seems to be asking for trouble since there is direct access down and out the drive to a four lane “busy highway”