So who else saw this video on FB today about horse loading/abuse?

[downen]

Concern about the horse my foot.
if you are concerned about the wellbeing of a living creature you step up to the plate the moment the misdeed happens. RIGHT THEN.

I had to do that once. Years ago took DD to a local open show for leadline. When we pulled up, there was a man whipping an Appy mare trying to load her into some POS trailer. When his crying daughter tried to stop him, he turned the whip on her. I was out of the truck and on his case in a flash. Luckily, he calmed down. I did have hubby with as backup, but honestly, I didn't think about it, just reacted.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I'm not sure how whether the horse was "being a jerk" has any bearing on it being okay to pummel him with anything - be it a bat or a whip or even a shoestring. It sounds like an excuse for her behavior and not a sound reason of explanation. If someone is being a "jerk" to me it doesn't give me a right to punch them in the face. Why not? Because it is A) illegal and B) completely uncivilized.

...

We are considerably more evolved and able to access educational resources now than we were in medieval times, and still the idea that it is okay to beat on a horse because he was being a "jerk" is okay? No.

You sound like an animal rights person. What gives you the right to ride a horse? or for that matter, confine him then?

I'm for animal WELFARE. We do expect them to behave within reason, in exchange for their meals and roof, carrots and pampering. And if they are being a butt, I DO speak "their language" - the same is I would if I was the herd leader of their herd.

Just think about what the herd leader would do if another horse was blocking their way into a stall/run, refusing to go forward to move down the path. They would lose hide from teeth or feet.

Not once have I ripped off their skin, or made a big round swelling like their buddies would to remind them of the respect for a dominant horse's will. That wouldn't bother them at all - they would juist shrug it off and correct their behavior.

They DO have a job to do, to have their cushy life. A horse refusing to load may very well be life threatening.

Yes, the time and place to really get into them to correct their behavior should be at home, but if you are out, and don't want to just leave the horse to wander the streets, sometimes you have to step up and let them know their decent behaior is expected anywhere.

Ramping up the consequenses to include a spanking is sometimes needed. The HORSE has the ability to say how much of a spanking is not enough to make them change their minds.

That horse could have stepped into the trailer before the first smack. or the second. He was not bothered enough to get back in something he obviously was inside of a short time before.

His choice.

They DO remember what they got away with, and it is FAR better to make a horse know what is acceptable, or not. If a horse is difficult to work with too many times, some people may put them on a truck to a very bad place. I definitely want to do everything in my power to stop that from ever happening.

Manners, cooperation, and behavior will help to keep them safe for a lifetime.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I did have a horse that a boarder couldn't get to load. She tried for hours before loading her other horse and leaving to move 4 states away. She told me to shoot him as she was pulling out of the farm.

She did call later, to say she would come back to get him the following week, and did, but I heard within a few months, she had him put down. I will always wonder why.

[millerra]

why didn't someone just hand the lady w/ the wiffle bat a broom?....

[Alagirl]

why didn't someone just hand the lady w/ the wiffle bat a broom?....

It was needed to fly home later I guess.

[Long Spot]

It was needed to fly home later I guess.

Aaaaand my day is complete. I should just log out now.

[JSjumper]

Aaaaand my day is complete. I should just log out now.

[sketcher]

I am the original poster of the video in this discussion. I had no motivations in taping this incident outside of documenting a woman losing her temper on a horse who was more than just a little disturbed by her attempts to trailer load him. .

"documenting", posting personal information including her phone number and then apparently removing under pressure and claiming it was not on there and then the best best one - calling animal control and alerting the news media. Yeah, that is one story worthy of the news. :eyeroll: Give me a break. There is a reason animal control did not respond to you. The worst that will happen is that you will force them to waste their time to and they will have to call and tell this woman that a complaint was filed and to make sure the next time she loads a horse she might make sure no idjits with cameras and personal vendettas are standing around. And I can not believe for one moment there is not a personal vendetta.

Anyone who has been around horses long enough in varied environments will at one time or another come across situations such as the one in the video. If you have never seen some idiot with an uncouth but not dangerous or abusive method or seen someone lose their temper or not have perhaps their finest moment has not been around so much as they think they have. If you can not discern between the two then you have net been around as much as you think you have. Shit happens. The world is not coming to an end and there really is no need to see the story reported on BBC alongside the starving orphans in Africa - or even on the local news alongside the true stories of real abuse.
stories of true abuse of horses. There are plenty of those so why don;t you go focus your time and effort there?

And I find this particular commentary on your website ironic in light if the personal attack on the youtube video (I can't wait to read about hoe abusive barrel racing is!):

http://www.writingofriding.com/in-th...le-commenting/

[carolprudm]

And I find this particular commentary on your website ironic in light if the personal attack on the youtube video (I can't wait to read about hoe abusive barrel racing is!):

http://www.writingofriding.com/in-th...le-commenting/

OMG has Spirithorse moved to WI?

[airhorse]

holy crap really? Looks just like the Assembly Hall.

The roofs are similar, but the buildings are completely different. IIRC, Assembly Hall is a complete saucer of concrete, the Alliant Center is more conventionally constructed.

[JoZ]

"documenting", posting personal information including her phone number and then apparently removing under pressure and claiming it was not on there and then the best best one - calling animal control and alerting the news media. Yeah, that is one story worthy of the news. :eyeroll: Give me a break. There is a reason animal control did not respond to you. The worst that will happen is that you will force them to waste their time to and they will have to call and tell this woman that a complaint was filed and to make sure the next time she loads a horse she might make sure no idjits with cameras and personal vendettas are standing around. And I can not believe for one moment there is not a personal vendetta.

Anyone who has been around horses long enough in varied environments will at one time or another come across situations such as the one in the video. If you have never seen some idiot with an uncouth but not dangerous or abusive method or seen someone lose their temper or not have perhaps their finest moment has not been around so much as they think they have. If you can not discern between the two then you have net been around as much as you think you have. Shit happens. The world is not coming to an end and there really is no need to see the story reported on BBC alongside the starving orphans in Africa - or even on the local news alongside the true stories of real abuse.
stories of true abuse of horses. There are plenty of those so why don;t you go focus your time and effort there?

And I find this particular commentary on your website ironic in light if the personal attack on the youtube video (I can't wait to read about hoe abusive barrel racing is!):

http://www.writingofriding.com/in-th...le-commenting/

Couldn't have said it better...

[SunshineAcres]

I don't see the point in making personal attacks on the person who shot the video. I'm sad to see yet another horse
forum where personal attacks are okay/allowed.
To date, there are seven pages of comments concerning this subject with varying opinions concerning the appropriateness of the "trainer's" behavior in the video and the videographer for recording the video as well.
Just because a person has an opinion, it doesn't make them right. There are valid points for both sides of the argument.
We've all had bad days with horses. If you haven't, you haven't been around horses long enough to have an opinion in this matter. The difference is how we handle ourselves when we've reached our breaking point. Most of us have that 'thing' that separates us from just being frustrated and being an animal abuser. The "trainer" lost the battle this time by giving into her frustration. I think that eliminates her from "trainer" status, don't you?
I believe most of us (if pushed to the point of frustration in the video) would take a step back, reevaluate what's not working and come up with a better plan vs. doing what this gal did in the video.
The video has allowed us to evaluate what not to do and how to do it better with our own horses.
I bet that "trainer" wishes she had done something different too.

[Alagirl]

I don't see the point in making personal attacks on the person who shot the video. I'm sad to see yet another horse
forum where personal attacks are okay/allowed.
To date, there are seven pages of comments concerning this subject with varying opinions concerning the appropriateness of the "trainer's" behavior in the video and the videographer for recording the video as well.
Just because a person has an opinion, it doesn't make them right. There are valid points for both sides of the argument.
We've all had bad days with horses. If you haven't, you haven't been around horses long enough to have an opinion in this matter. The difference is how we handle ourselves when we've reached our breaking point. Most of us have that 'thing' that separates us from just being frustrated and being an animal abuser. The "trainer" lost the battle this time by giving into her frustration. I think that eliminates her from "trainer" status, don't you?
I believe most of us (if pushed to the point of frustration in the video) would take a step back, reevaluate what's not working and come up with a better plan vs. doing what this gal did in the video.
The video has allowed us to evaluate what not to do and how to do it better with our own horses.
I bet that "trainer" wishes she had done something different too.

The criticism stems less from the fact that she recorded the video, not even that she posted it on youtube - though that is pretty low - but from the fact that she included personal information of the person depicted in the video, with the urge to other people to contact her. That. is. not. cool.

Oh, and to justify her actions she claimed concern for the animal's welfare. Watching somebody getting beaten is not how caring people ought to show concern.

Kind of like the older sibling not keeping the younger ones from getting into trouble, but making sure they record the misdeed to properly turn them in to the parents for punishment.

Oh, and repeated contacts to AC from this person in regard of the 'abuse'

Dunno where the place is, but I am sure AC is understaffed, underpaid and dealing with real abuse cases and abandoned animals - in other words, overworked.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Here is a question. Those of you saying the trainer lost her temper, what are you basing that on? The fact she was hitting? Number of hits? Force of the hits? Maybe she didn't lose her temper at all, but knows from working with this horse exactly what it takes when he decides to be a brat.

Take a step back? Maybe she has tried all of the other options, and this IS what is known to work, and DID work. That is exactly the case with the one from here that did this for years, and I can promise you not for a second did I lose my temper. My whacks were perfectly timed to what I knew worked, while still giving him a few moments here and there to change his mind. His owner & the professional hauler would try in those mornings for quite a while before knocking on my door, but she KNEW that I could get the horse on.

This was a horse that was regularly showing, and almost always was Champion, so not an inexperienced horse. and 9 times out of 10 leaving the farm, and 100% of the homeward loading went really easy.

We just have no clue what this trainer has been thru with this horse, but having that bat may be a clue.

[Wayside]

Here is a question. Those of you saying the trainer lost her temper, what are you basing that on?

Personally, I strongly suspect that she lost her temper based on the timing of the hits. They seemed semi-random and not always coming at the most constructive of times. But she could just have really bad timing, be slow to react, etc.

I also thought her bent-forward posture seemed angry, but I have to admit that I'm not really that good at reading people body language.

And it looked like she wasn't always positioning herself in the safest manner, but again, that could be the camera angle.

All in all, I'd have to agree with the posters who feel that this was bad horsemanship and unprofessional, but not abusive. The horse really didn't seem all that impressed by the "trainer", so I doubt that s/he was traumatized by her wiffle-bat wielding frenzy.

And I'm basing my "not abusive" stance on what I could see of the horse's reaction. There are things that I did to my thick-skinned draft gelding that would probably be abusive if I did them to my extremely sensitive Trakehner mare. Different horses need different handling.

And although I'm a Wisconsonite, and I'm familiar with the event, I don't know the "trainer" or the camerawoman involved.

[goneriding24]

Okie dokie....I'm not suggesting, I'm telling the poster of the video, next time you see someone whaling away on a horse and you just know that poor horsie is being abused, put the *(&$#*(*(% camera down, toddle over to the situation and take control!! How's that?? You tell everyone to stand back and then seek to remedy the situation. With a horse you've never seen before and/or don't know. BUT! When silly horse hurts you because you didn't say please enough, you can't sue or scream or post how you were taken advantage of. There is enough of that going around anyway.

There. That should fix everything from now on.

I can't believe how this cr*p gets under my skin.

[paulaedwina]

Just curious; of those who thought the incident wasn't a big deal -would you give your horse to this woman to train?

Paula

[Alagirl]

Just curious; of those who thought the incident wasn't a big deal -would you give your horse to this woman to train?

Paula

To tell you honestly, I would not judge her by that one clip.

I have seen a few horses, a lot less than a lot of COTH members, but I understand that sometimes 'nice' does not cut it.

However, I have also been exposed via osmosis to a lot of bad horse people whom I would not entrust a petrock to.


One bad outing does not make a bad trainer, a stellar public performance not make a good one.

[Wayside]

Just curious; of those who thought the incident wasn't a big deal -would you give your horse to this woman to train?

Paula

Nope. Definitely not right for my super-sensitive mares. I wouldn't even recommend her to my neighbor, and I think her horse could actually use a CTJ meeting with a wiffle bat or two.

There are plenty of so-called trainers around here that I wouldn't recommend, but very few of them are what I would consider criminally abusive. Many more are simply incompetant, ineffective, and/or unethical.

[Salar]

"Abuse starts where knowledge ends"

I do not care if this video was shot at 2 minutes, 20 minutes or 2 hours after she first tried to get him on the trailer. THAT my friends is totally unprofessional, and I applaud the person for documenting it. I may not agree with the details added to the posting (phone #), and I do not give a rats ass if the videographer has a vendetta....or if the horse was stubborn....she lost it big time and I think she needs to be taken to task for this.