• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

So who else saw this video on FB today about horse loading/abuse?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by justdandy View Post
    Okay...you didn't put her address and phone number out there (I misread that), but you did put her name out there which is easily googled. You said in the details on your video that you gave the video to the local police and filed a complaint. If there is no personal vendetta towards this trainer, then why wasn't that enough? Why did you feel the need to post it on youtube?
    Madison Animal Services essentially gave me an eye roll over the phone when I called them. They have not taken a formal complaint from me because they wouldn't. This was all before they saw any video footage. I emailed them the link to the video online after speaking over the phone and all I received was a confirmation email that they received mine. To my knowledge they are not currently looking into this situation.

    Why post the video online? This woman is running a business, and not just putting herself out there as a professional but also an influence on the adolescent riders under her care. Is it not disconcerting that someone willing to beat on a horse in rage is also teaching children and exposing them to situations like this? Many parents will not be made aware of things like this unless they see it proven - that is the video proof now online. With the ho-hum attitude of animal services I am also hoping that people will generate enough noise that they will take the situation seriously and at the very least make a formal inquiry about any other horses under her care.

    I have no personal vendetta against her, but I do feel strongly about what is and is not acceptable treatment of a horse - or people for that matter. No matter how much I may disagree with her actions I also know that I would not lash out at her with this same kind of rage and violence she has shown her horse. It is called self control.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Aelphabae View Post
      Madison Animal Services essentially gave me an eye roll over the phone when I called them. They have not taken a formal complaint from me because they wouldn't. This was all before they saw any video footage. I emailed them the link to the video online after speaking over the phone and all I received was a confirmation email that they received mine. To my knowledge they are not currently looking into this situation.

      Why post the video online? This woman is running a business, and not just putting herself out there as a professional but also an influence on the adolescent riders under her care. Is it not disconcerting that someone willing to beat on a horse in rage is also teaching children and exposing them to situations like this? Many parents will not be made aware of things like this unless they see it proven - that is the video proof now online. With the ho-hum attitude of animal services I am also hoping that people will generate enough noise that they will take the situation seriously and at the very least make a formal inquiry about any other horses under her care.

      I have no personal vendetta against her, but I do feel strongly about what is and is not acceptable treatment of a horse - or people for that matter. No matter how much I may disagree with her actions I also know that I would not lash out at her with this same kind of rage and violence she has shown her horse. It is called self control.





      Well, Karma is a big female dog.

      I hope your backside is covered when it comes back to you.

      Comment


      • Why post the video online? For information. When I was looking for a trainer for my horse one of the first things I did was Google the person. Sure I visited the trainer, interviewed the trainer, asked about the trainer, observed the trainer with my horse and other horses, etc, but I also Googled. I want to know who I'm entrusting my animal to as much as I'd want to know who I was entrusting my human child to (if I had a child).

        So thank goodness for whistleblowers who have the courage to speak up. I have the ability to look at their footage or their case and decide whether it is going to have any bearing on my decision of course, but I love having the information.

        Just about a month ago another poster discussed how her young horses were damaged by a well known trainer and she was appalled because of the trainer's reputation. Well she posted graphic detail of her horse's injuries at the hand of this trainer. Good for her because she will have informed others, but I bet she would have prefered her horses not be the guinea pigs to get this out there.

        Paula
        He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post



          Well, Karma is a big female dog.

          I hope your backside is covered when it comes back to you.


          And, the phone number was on the original You Tube video, it was removed because of threats that were reported to Madison Animal Control. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but posting someone's home phone number crosses the line.

          This trainer would not handle one of my animals, she handled an animal not loading poorly. But, to post personal information and tell people to call her
          www.Somermistfarm.com
          Quality Hunter Ponies

          Comment


          • Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
            Why post the video online? For information. When I was looking for a trainer for my horse one of the first things I did was Google the person. Sure I visited the trainer, interviewed the trainer, asked about the trainer, observed the trainer with my horse and other horses, etc, but I also Googled. I want to know who I'm entrusting my animal to as much as I'd want to know who I was entrusting my human child to (if I had a child).

            So thank goodness for whistleblowers who have the courage to speak up. I have the ability to look at their footage or their case and decide whether it is going to have any bearing on my decision of course, but I love having the information.

            Just about a month ago another poster discussed how her young horses were damaged by a well known trainer and she was appalled because of the trainer's reputation. Well she posted graphic detail of her horse's injuries at the hand of this trainer. Good for her because she will have informed others, but I bet she would have prefered her horses not be the guinea pigs to get this out there.

            Paula

            Youtube is not the venue to go though.

            Telling every Tom, Dick and Harry to call the woman.

            Oh, and bugging A/C about it.

            Certainly, that's not advertisement for the woman, trainer or not.

            But good grief, that's making an elephant out of a molehill.

            Like so many things sensationalistic media (yep, that's youtube) can and does distort the events by omitting context.

            Do I agree with the methods used?
            At face value no, but given the context, I might.

            As mentioned in the other 'abuse' thread (or rather scratched upon) there is a time and place when one has to tell Mr or Ms Horse just who pays the feed bill. Around COTH we call it the 'CTJM', when we want to put somebody down we say 'this hic was teaching her who the boss is'

            The video does not show what happened prior. Maybe the horse was a jerk, maybe not.

            But what was shown in the video was hardly ZOMG ABUSE. Less than stellar horsemanship? Yup.

            A reason to post personal information on Youtube for billions of people to see it? Not on your life!

            While COTH is open to the general public, most people who are into treehugging and such things don't come here. Youtube is a different animal.
            And yet we do get the call to arm ourselves with pitchforks and torches on a regular basis. When evil people sell their horses at auction for example....

            Do we need to broaden the pool of nutters to the rest of the world, that does include a good many people who are so steeped into their agenda that they do not think twice of actually causing harm to a human being because they don't like what they do with an animal?

            So far we had truck drivers harassed because they had an accident while driving horses. No, while driving horses in a less than posh truck.

            really?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Aelphabae View Post
              In the video I ask her what farm she is with, what her name is. The other woman is the one who speaks out saying that she is on video and is abusing her horse.
              You confuse me. On one hand you are saying how you were too scared to offer help because she might take her anger out on you, but the other it is no big deal to walk up to her and ask her name and other information. No fears that she would be a big meany to you then?

              To me you sound like a busy body with an axe to grind, not someone who truly is trying to out a bad.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                You confuse me. On one hand you are saying how you were too scared to offer help because she might take her anger out on you, but the other it is no big deal to walk up to her and ask her name and other information. No fears that she would be a big meany to you then?

                To me you sound like a busy body with an axe to grind, not someone who truly is trying to out a bad.
                Your post is confusing. Where in the video did I walk up to the woman?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                  Certainly, that's not advertisement for the woman, trainer or not.

                  But good grief, that's making an elephant out of a molehill.

                  Like so many things sensationalistic media (yep, that's youtube) can and does distort the events by omitting context.

                  Do I agree with the methods used?
                  At face value no, but given the context, I might.

                  As mentioned in the other 'abuse' thread (or rather scratched upon) there is a time and place when one has to tell Mr or Ms Horse just who pays the feed bill. Around COTH we call it the 'CTJM', when we want to put somebody down we say 'this hic was teaching her who the boss is'

                  The video does not show what happened prior. Maybe the horse was a jerk, maybe not.
                  I'm not sure how whether the horse was "being a jerk" has any bearing on it being okay to pummel him with anything - be it a bat or a whip or even a shoestring. It sounds like an excuse for her behavior and not a sound reason of explanation. If someone is being a "jerk" to me it doesn't give me a right to punch them in the face. Why not? Because it is A) illegal and B) completely uncivilized.

                  It boggles my mind that when someone raises their voice out of concern for the well-being of a horse the first reaction by other so-called horse lovers is not to inquire into the horse's safety but instead to make excuses for the actions made and to say that it is no big deal. Further, to label me a tree hugger, or as someone else once mentioned a liberal (which I am not thanks very much) seems only to be distractions.

                  Have we all lost our patience when working with horses? Yes, my goodness we wouldn't be human if we hadn't with horses or other people. But I refuse to accept the idea that losing our patience and then acting out of frustration is okay. It might be needed for some media sensationalizing in order to change the long-held acceptance of abusive practices that extend throughout every single discipline in the horse industry. We are considerably more evolved and able to access educational resources now than we were in medieval times, and still the idea that it is okay to beat on a horse because he was being a "jerk" is okay? No.

                  Comment


                  • Are you aware that one can care about the well being of an animal while still being realistic about life?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post



                      Well, Karma is a big female dog.

                      I hope your backside is covered when it comes back to you.
                      Twue dat.

                      I watched the vid. The horse was being stubborn and then decided to pop in. Good grief. I hope the video-er never does anything in public or private and I bet, when she/he is youtubed, will scream bloody murder about her rights, yada, yada, yada.

                      This is getting out of hand. This is a personal attack for some reason. "Nothing against the trainer"...my Aunt Fanny.

                      I'm so annoyed at the videogragher. Next time, take it up with someone who is really, really abusing a horse. D*mn. Oh, and someone who can fight back and vid everything YOU do.
                      GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Aelphabae View Post
                        I'm not sure how whether the horse was "being a jerk" has any bearing on it being okay to pummel him with anything - be it a bat or a whip or even a shoestring. It sounds like an excuse for her behavior and not a sound reason of explanation. If someone is being a "jerk" to me it doesn't give me a right to punch them in the face. Why not? Because it is A) illegal and B) completely uncivilized.

                        It boggles my mind that when someone raises their voice out of concern for the well-being of a horse the first reaction by other so-called horse lovers is not to inquire into the horse's safety but instead to make excuses for the actions made and to say that it is no big deal. Further, to label me a tree hugger, or as someone else once mentioned a liberal (which I am not thanks very much) seems only to be distractions.

                        Have we all lost our patience when working with horses? Yes, my goodness we wouldn't be human if we hadn't with horses or other people. But I refuse to accept the idea that losing our patience and then acting out of frustration is okay. It might be needed for some media sensationalizing in order to change the long-held acceptance of abusive practices that extend throughout every single discipline in the horse industry. We are considerably more evolved and able to access educational resources now than we were in medieval times, and still the idea that it is okay to beat on a horse because he was being a "jerk" is okay? No.
                        Seriously, get out in the real world for a bit. That horse wasn't pummeled. You use some mighty pretty $10 words to make yourself feel better. You 'refuse'?? Let's vid you and put your info for all the world to see and see how you feel. ****Not that I'm going to do this!! I'm just tired of 'holier than thou' people making everything into a mountain from a molehill****

                        ETA: Oh, and by-the-by, I've had horses who would load in anything put in front of them all the time and then the one time I'm somewhere and HAVE to get somewhere, they decide not to load. What was the story before the accursed vid?? Hmmmmm???

                        ETA ETA: Good thing you weren't at my house yesterday when my horse ate my tulips (about half of them). You would have had a thrombo with the way I, erm, 'spoke' to him....
                        Last edited by goneriding24; Apr. 25, 2012, 02:21 PM. Reason: Annoyed beyond belief....Egads, but can't say what I really think, don't want to get banned by the mods!! :-)
                        GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                          Again, I do not think the discussion is that the only options for getting a balking horse into a trailer are losing it on his behind with a wiffle bat or talking nicely to him. That is an oversimplification of the discussion. The issue is that it was clear that she lost control and didn't have the presence of mind to stop. Who here hasn't gotten completely pissed off over an animal or a human for that matter? The issue is what do you do then? The answer is -walk away, take a breath. If you don't you're human, but you're also wrong. And if I see you do that I am going to wonder if you can do that in public what do you do in private?
                          I think posting the video for public viewing was a good idea. Maybe it will make the trainer, and possibly others think twice about how they handle themselves and their animals in public.

                          I know how frustrating it is to deal with a horse being a butt head about loading, but I have never resorted to acting a fool trying to get the horse in. Sure, it's a PITA when it takes over an hour, but it taught me not to go anywhere again until said horse practiced loading over and over at home.

                          Some of us do have the presence of mind to walk away before frustrated anger kicks in. Those who don't, need to learn it's not okay, even if it means learning it by having one's actions posted on YouTube.

                          We now live in a world where pretty much everything we do can be posted immediately for the world to see. If this doesn't make people think twice about what could be deemed inappropriate behavior, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

                          While I don't necessarily think trying to load a horse by hitting it with a wiffle bat is cruel, I do think it's plain stupid. Perhaps stupid can be fixed by being embarrassed on YouTube.
                          Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                          http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                          http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                            You confuse me. On one hand you are saying how you were too scared to offer help because she might take her anger out on you, but the other it is no big deal to walk up to her and ask her name and other information. No fears that she would be a big meany to you then?

                            To me you sound like a busy body with an axe to grind, not someone who truly is trying to out a bad.
                            Originally posted by Aelphabae View Post
                            Your post is confusing. Where in the video did I walk up to the woman?
                            Yeah, trub....she didn't walk up to the woman. DUH! Didn't you know it was "safer" for her to just yell across the field? Because, you know she had a "gut feeling" the woman would turn on her.

                            I don't know why I even started to post on this thread. I think it's because I'm so tired of people using "abuse" and "bully" for everything!! Unlike most of the posters here, I don't feel it was abusive. Horses KICK each other harder than the woman was hitting the horse with a HOLLOW plastic bat. At one point, the woman was clunking the horse's behind with the bat and the horse was just standing there....not even flinching!!!!!

                            Also, who here would be able to stay calm trying to load a horse who was giving them trouble after having spent the entire time at this event with someone stalking you (to the point you have to get security involved) and all you want to do is get out of there and get home? Then, to have that person standing there video taping you trying to load your horse!? Yeah, yeah.... Aelphabae is going to come back AGAIN and say she has nothing against this woman (hogwash, IMO)! Aelphabae, no matter how much you protest, you do sound like you have an agenda and an excuse for everything.
                            Honey badger don't give a sh!t.

                            Comment


                            • Interestingly, Ms. Plasch did file for a restraining order against someone a few years ago, but it wasn't Ms. Frei. http://wcca.wicourts.gov/courtRecord...tDirection=ASC
                              "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
                              -Edward Hoagland

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by justdandy View Post
                                I don't know why I even started to post on this thread. I think it's because I'm so tired of people using "abuse" and "bully" for everything!! Unlike most of the posters here, I don't feel it was abusive. Horses KICK each other harder than the woman was hitting the horse with a HOLLOW plastic bat.
                                So that makes it okay to use any physical action against a horse that's less hard than a kick from another horse? No, of course it doesn't. Why then is the argument that "horses do worse to each other" wheeled out so freely every time people want to defend/excuse an unnecessary act of milder violence? It doesn't make any sense to me.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Aelphabae View Post
                                  I'm not sure how whether the horse was "being a jerk" has any bearing on it being okay to pummel him with anything - be it a bat or a whip or even a shoestring. It sounds like an excuse for her behavior and not a sound reason of explanation. If someone is being a "jerk" to me it doesn't give me a right to punch them in the face. Why not? Because it is A) illegal and B) completely uncivilized.

                                  It boggles my mind that when someone raises their voice out of concern for the well-being of a horse the first reaction by other so-called horse lovers is not to inquire into the horse's safety but instead to make excuses for the actions made and to say that it is no big deal. Further, to label me a tree hugger, or as someone else once mentioned a liberal (which I am not thanks very much) seems only to be distractions.

                                  Have we all lost our patience when working with horses? Yes, my goodness we wouldn't be human if we hadn't with horses or other people. But I refuse to accept the idea that losing our patience and then acting out of frustration is okay. It might be needed for some media sensationalizing in order to change the long-held acceptance of abusive practices that extend throughout every single discipline in the horse industry. We are considerably more evolved and able to access educational resources now than we were in medieval times, and still the idea that it is okay to beat on a horse because he was being a "jerk" is okay? No.

                                  yes, beating a horse with a whiffle bat is ok when the horse is being a jerk.
                                  because a jerk horse is dangerous.
                                  it is actually kinder than a buggy whip or a longe whip.

                                  Maybe next time you film the before of the floor show.

                                  Concern about the horse my foot.
                                  if you are concerned about the wellbeing of a living creature you step up to the plate the moment the misdeed happens. RIGHT THEN.

                                  Not cowardly filming, then posting it on youtube. Then haunting the daylights out of AC to take up your fight.

                                  Evil happens when good people stand by and keep silent.
                                  Like you. As it happened you stayed silent.
                                  If it had concerned you so much, you would have found the courage to stand up, walk across the field and say something.
                                  You did nothing of the sort.

                                  Comment


                                  • It's usually not the horses that are the jerks, it's the people.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by BaroquePony View Post
                                      It's usually not the horses that are the jerks, it's the people.
                                      Usually. But I have dealt with at least one exception.

                                      Comment


                                      • What does it actually mean when people say that a horse is a jerk? It seems to be attributing some negative human characteristics to the horse that it doesn't have.

                                        Please... could someone explain what "jerk" means in non-anthropomorphic terms? Then it might be easier for this mystified soul to understand why beating a horse with a whiffle bat would be an appropriate action.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by fburton View Post
                                          What does it actually mean when people say that a horse is a jerk? It seems to be attributing some negative human characteristics to the horse that it doesn't have.

                                          Please... could someone explain what "jerk" means in non-anthropomorphic terms? Then it might be easier for this mystified soul to understand why beating a horse with a whiffle bat would be an appropriate action.
                                          we can start a new thread over that.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X