So who else saw this video on FB today about horse loading/abuse?

[trubandloki]

I am glad Youtube has common sense.

[7HL]

As threats were made to the trainer's safety, yes, youtube was contacted and told to remove the video. So... what's funny about that? Please do explain.

threats??

Some taking things a little too serious?


I have gone back through and read your posts.

Things are getting out of control. While Erica is no longer actively harassing the trainer, she's set the stage for the 'public' to do the work for her.

Now this is funny...

http://www.awarenessinriding.com/ - "ego-free horsemanship"

[millerra]

While I will say that the trainer's timing looked off and the wiffle bat was probably not the best public tool to use, and perhaps not the best horsemanship, I will ask a question of those who think that she is "abusive"

A hypothetical situation:
Let's say YOU are trying to load some kids horse at show, as a good samaritan. The horse has, prior to you helping, has refused to get on the trailer. Not only has it done that, but it went flying backwards, ripped the rope out of the kid's hands and went racing around the grounds. It has now been caught and is ready to load onto the trailer. Someone has put a chain over the nose. you are on the end of the lead rope. Horse does SAME STUNT to you. What is your response? What if someone is filming you. Would it look "abusive" to non horse people- even if you haven't lost your temper?

And, bear in mind, a chain can do a lot more physical damage, very quickly than a wiffle bat to the butt EVER has the ability to do.

[goneriding24]

Now this is funny...

http://www.awarenessinriding.com/ - "ego-free horsemanship"

I know this thread SHOULD die, BUT, just had to look (dang you, 7!) and give whatshername some clicks.

Now, we hopefully know what this is all about.

Howsomeever...if she is such a great horsewoman, WHY didn't she put the (blankin') camera down and HELP the trainer load the horse?? Then I saw address and while I didn't look it up on Bing maps, it's WI, same as the trainer.

****My opinion only****

So, I'm thinking there just could be a little personal revenge or something going on?? Shut down a rival in the most public, embarrassing way possible?? Perhaps other rivals should keep a sharp eye for showing up on youtube in the worst light possible??

[JSjumper]

So, I'm thinking there just could be a little personal revenge or something going on?? Shut down a rival in the most public, embarrassing way possible?? Perhaps other rivals should keep a sharp eye for showing up on youtube in the worst light possible??

Seeing as this isn't the first time this particular woman has attacked another trainer in a similar way... yes, I think nearby trainers do have a reason to be concerned.

[BabyGoose]

While I will say that the trainer's timing looked off and the wiffle bat was probably not the best public tool to use, and perhaps not the best horsemanship, I will ask a question of those who think that she is "abusive"

A hypothetical situation:
Let's say YOU are trying to load some kids horse at show, as a good samaritan. The horse has, prior to you helping, has refused to get on the trailer. Not only has it done that, but it went flying backwards, ripped the rope out of the kid's hands and went racing around the grounds. It has now been caught and is ready to load onto the trailer. Someone has put a chain over the nose. you are on the end of the lead rope. Horse does SAME STUNT to you. What is your response? What if someone is filming you. Would it look "abusive" to non horse people- even if you haven't lost your temper?

And, bear in mind, a chain can do a lot more physical damage, very quickly than a wiffle bat to the butt EVER has the ability to do.

It would only look abusive (and be abusive) if I was jerking and yanking on the chain in anger with no productive reason for it. Just like the lady in the video seemed to be whacking the horses butt without even giving the horse a chance to make the right decision. Just swinging that wiffle batt around, IMO in anger. I guess it depends on the persons definition and perception of abuse. I don't know anymore than what I saw in the video. This may have been the only time in this womens life that she ever went beserk and whacked on horse it what looked to be anger with no real timing or purpose to actually get the horse on the trailer. Maybe 5 minutes later she was sick about it. Maybe she loses it all the time and always treats her horses that way. Most of use will probably never know. But what I saw of her reaction in that few minutes of video was frankly a little scary and abusive, even if it was "just a wiffle bat". It wasn't the whacking in itself that bothered me, or the choice of weapon, it was the attitude in which it was done that was disturbing.

Personally I don't think whacking the horse on the butt with a wiffle bat is abusive. IF there is a reason for it. To motivate the horse to take a step forward toward the trailer (although I think using the bat really puts the person WAY too close to the hind end!), to step him back over to line up with the door, but running over, snatching it up off the ground, and start randomly hitting in anger is abusive.

[7HL]

I know this thread SHOULD die, BUT, just had to look (dang you, 7!) and give whatshername some clicks.

Now, we hopefully know what this is all about.

Howsomeever...if she is such a great horsewoman, WHY didn't she put the (blankin') camera down and HELP the trainer load the horse?? Then I saw address and while I didn't look it up on Bing maps, it's WI, same as the trainer.

****My opinion only****

So, I'm thinking there just could be a little personal revenge or something going on?? Shut down a rival in the most public, embarrassing way possible?? Perhaps other rivals should keep a sharp eye for showing up on youtube in the worst light possible??

If you search around you can find some interesting stuff. This trainer's youtube channel in it's favorites has a group of what she calls abuse videos. Most seem to directly from youtube. Also her blog/writings has some articles. One was on barrel racing abuse. She appears to be a little obsessed.

[goneriding24]

Seeing as this isn't the first time this particular woman has attacked another trainer in a similar way... yes, I think nearby trainers do have a reason to be concerned.

That I did not know of. When? Where? Details or link?

[millerra]

It would only look abusive (and be abusive) if I was jerking and yanking on the chain in anger with no productive reason for it.

Here in lies exactly the problem. The video made the local news HERE and we're 250 miles away. Lots of non-horse people saw the "abusive" video. WE - as horse people - can say her TIMING is bad. The non-horse person sees a person hitting a horse w/ a bat. A non-horse person would see someone yanking on a chain. The subtlety of timing would be lost - and even if it was well timed, the video would be seen as abusive...

[Sithly]

While I will say that the trainer's timing looked off and the wiffle bat was probably not the best public tool to use, and perhaps not the best horsemanship, I will ask a question of those who think that she is "abusive"

A hypothetical situation:
Let's say YOU are trying to load some kids horse at show, as a good samaritan. The horse has, prior to you helping, has refused to get on the trailer. Not only has it done that, but it went flying backwards, ripped the rope out of the kid's hands and went racing around the grounds. It has now been caught and is ready to load onto the trailer. Someone has put a chain over the nose. you are on the end of the lead rope. Horse does SAME STUNT to you. What is your response? What if someone is filming you. Would it look "abusive" to non horse people- even if you haven't lost your temper?

And, bear in mind, a chain can do a lot more physical damage, very quickly than a wiffle bat to the butt EVER has the ability to do.

"Losing your temper" is not always a cut-and-dried thing. I've been accused of it when I was perfectly calm, but moving and reacting really fast.

I used to ride this horse who was 99% great. Been everywhere, done everything, an all-around good citizen 99% of the time. The other 1%, by golly, he'd give you the finger.

One day I was hosing him down after a ride, which was our daily routine. I always looped the rope around the hitching post instead of tying, so there would be some resistance if the horse pulled back, but no hard stop.

For whatever reason, this was a 1% day. Halfway through his bath, he pulled back violently for no discernible reason. Okay, I thought, that was a one-off. I was not expecting it, so I wasn't proactive enough to grab the rope before he got himself loose. No big deal; I walked him forward again and resumed his bath.

A few minutes later, he did it again. This time I was ready. I grabbed the rope as he pulled back and swatted him on the butt several times with the end of the rope until he jumped forward. He stood, but he had that piggy look in his eye that meant this was a 1% day and he was damn well going to try it again.

Sure enough, after a few more minutes, he did it again. This time I got after him, hard and fast. I whacked him on the ass repeatedly, chased him in a circle, and kept after him hard until that piggy look disappeared and I saw his eye soften. Then I patted him on the neck, walked him back up to the post, and we finished our bath with no more incidents.

As I was walking him back around to the front of the barn, an older lady jumped out of her car and confronted me. She got right in my face and screeched at me, spittle flying. She was yelling that I had abused the horse, she SAW me do it, and how dare I??? She said that I had lost my temper and needed to learn how to control myself. She was totally outraged. I tried to explain what I was doing and why, but she wouldn't listen. If she'd had a video camera, I'd probably be on youtube right now.

As for the horse, well, as ugly as I'm sure that scene must have looked, he was not traumatized, he never pulled that particular stunt again (though he had others), and we continued to get along very well 99% of the time.

[Fairview Horse Center]

"Losing your temper" is not always a cut-and-dried thing. I've been accused of it when I was perfectly calm, but moving and reacting really fast.

Yes. I tend to use methods that I have seen horses do to each other, so that includes going after the horse with a tool - whip or chain a bit, but while bellowing at them, in a pretty loud high pitched voice.

Like when loading a problem horse, and they are rearing and pushing their shoulder into me to put me in danger, I put on a chain, and do exactly what their herd leader would do - use it to send them quickly back out of my body space, smacking them on their shoulder/chest, while yelling "don't you Ever, EVER, EVER do that to me again!!!

I immediately lead them quietly to approach again.

I am perfectly in control, but just trying to speak their language, and let them know putting a human in danger is not acceptable.

[Alagirl]

My sister send one flying back one time, at a show, past at least 2 rigs...lead rope flying.

it looked bad. Really.

But....
Veteran show horse decided just then to not only act like man eating monster, but actually connect with the hand - rather the side - that fed her, bit my sister in the side while tacking up. So what that the saddle fell to the ground.
I think it cured the problem for a long while.

I mean, she was one evil witch (and her mare shared a lot of personality traits ) but never to her animals. But a minimum of manners had to be preserved.

[Woodland]

Couldn't agree more. This Internet vigilante justice is extremely disturbing. I was not okay with the fugly blog doing it, either. A person can be tried, convicted, and sent to the firing squad in a matter of hours by Internet mass hysteria. We're talking real life, serious consequences here. There's no oversight, no fairness, and nothing you can do once you're in its clutches, because you know the mob is interested in entertainment, not truth.

I would never recommend for that trainer talk to the media. They will take the most sensational sound byte out of whatever she says, regardless of her actual meaning.

Amen!

Fugly is despicable tripe hell bent on ruining people - some "perhaps" may "deserve" it - but more often then not it is simple an opinion with a platform for wise screen delivery.

[Woodland]

Asia Voight didn't "show up", she was sent a link to the video and as far as I can tell she is in no way involved in the matter.

Wow you sure know a lot about this....

[goneriding24]

http://asiavoight.com/

You, too, can have telephone consultations. They are more efficient way of communicating, y'know.

Wonder if she's kith and kin to John? Anyone see a resemblence to Angelina?

Seriously, though, I don't know why anyone would need a life coach. It's not like us horse people want anyone to tell us what to do!!

[goneriding24]

Another thing...what has happened to the video-er that she's not posting here anymore?? Whatshername? Erica? I can't keep all the names straight.

AND...has anyone contacted the TV station news department to give another side of the story?

[Fairview Horse Center]

Another thing...what has happened to the video-er that she's not posting here anymore?? Whatshername? Erica?

She may have realized that abuse can be listed under her name too - awfully painful to stand on a horse's loin http://www.awarenessinriding.com/erica-k-frei/

[goneriding24]

She may have realized that abuse can be listed under her name too - awfully painful to stand on a horse's loin http://www.awarenessinriding.com/erica-k-frei/

That hurt to look at it.

I bet riding in the 6-inch heels was something else, especially when dismounting and trying to find the ground.

[Aelphabae]

Just here musing over the squabbles. Of all the comments made where are the facts? I have done this to what other trainers, when, where and how?

And dismounting in high heels is easier than it looks as long as you have any semblance of balance to begin with...

[Aelphabae]

And who is this Amy person? Apparently my body double I've never met has been hanging with this girl in some conspiracy plot? Yeah, right. Where is all this proof of anything? There isn't any, just more rumors for the mill.

You are right. At the time of my first post, I was confusing Erica (Aelphabae) with a woman named Amy, as they were at the horse fair harassing the trainer together. Erica took the video apparently- she has not trained with or purchased a horse from the trainer. Thanks for correcting my error, it was not intentional.