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So who else saw this video on FB today about horse loading/abuse?

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  • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
    well, yes and no.

    3 minutes out of your life would hardly represent who you are and what you do.

    You get the giggles at an even and everybody brands you as an airhead, would that be fair?

    What would you do if somebody had it out for you?

    Looking for reasons to slam you at every turn. Not unlike Paparazzi who pray on the celeb tu jour having a public mishap.

    I don't think anybody condoned what the woman did.
    But however misplaced her actions were, they hardly count as abusive in my book. The horse got to the show ground somehow, it's not like the trailer appeared out of thin air....

    A pop with the whiffle bat, hardly terminal, nor injury inflicting, even in kids. Prudent horsemanship? Not really.

    Reason to slam this woman and unleash the unwashed pretty pony masses on her? HELL NO.
    Making other people do your stalker work for you, that should be criminal.
    Should somebody in the crowd be unstable enough to harm the woman from the video, you think that would be ok? In another context I'd qualify Ms Erica's actions as inciting a riot. Or at least it's close.
    It also put a person and her family in fear, not unreasonable at that. That's akin to terrorism.

    Now.
    Please tell me that is ok with you.

    This is not somebody who tied a horse to a tree that ended up bloody and dead, left a heard of 150 horses to starve or tripped a horse repeatedly in the name of sport.

    She bonked a horse on the fleshy part of the butt with a hollow plastic bat.
    (which is more humane to me than a whip which can leave welts, btw, and yet I would not hesitate to use either when the situation warranted it)
    Couldn't agree more. This Internet vigilante justice is extremely disturbing. I was not okay with the fugly blog doing it, either. A person can be tried, convicted, and sent to the firing squad in a matter of hours by Internet mass hysteria. We're talking real life, serious consequences here. There's no oversight, no fairness, and nothing you can do once you're in its clutches, because you know the mob is interested in entertainment, not truth.

    I would never recommend for that trainer talk to the media. They will take the most sensational sound byte out of whatever she says, regardless of her actual meaning.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
      I took my time to read and understand your post before responding. I don't see her losing it on the horse with a wiffle bat as analogous to being labeled an airhead for giggling at an event. For me I think you get the real measure of a person when the poop has hit the fan and I tend to assess people then more than when everything's brilliant, fat and well fed. That may well be how my experiences have informed my perceptions. So what she did in those few minutes really left an impression on me.

      I'm glad the woman posted the video on Youtube and I'm glad the OP posted the thread here. I also appreciate someone identifying the trainer by name. In 2012 it's like the Better Business Bureau. Like I said in another post; when I was looking for a trainer my due diligence included Googling the trainer. For me; those few minutes would be a deal breaker. Now I think if you then incite others to harass the trainer that's not correct behavior, but I am not sure how much control one has over the behavior of viewers in this day and age. If the author hadn't identified her someone watching the video would have -of that I have no doubt.

      So I don't know whether there's a right answer to the fallout, but I am glad she published the video.

      Paula
      I see you don't understand the analogy I was trying to get across:
      You are passing judgement on a person you have never met over a 3 minute video somebody with a chip on her shoulder the size of Stone Mountain posted on youtube.

      Imagine you would be in the running for a serious position and a video of you getting the giggles at an inopportune time and posts it for the world to see on youtube.

      lets see, county coroner, maybe....

      You had the giggles once that year. Never cracked a smile the rest of the time. But there it is, you giggled...not a recommendation for coroner.
      of course, that is a silly argument, but I suppose it shows what I mean.

      You have made up your mind that this woman is an inept trainer.
      Yet, you know not one thing about her, past those 3 minutes of her life.

      Worse yet, you inadvertantly support ms Erica's means of spreading the word, effectively putting this very person actually at real risk of bodily harm. Not to mention destroying her reputation and business.

      For all we know, this horse could be a seasoned veteran of the show circuit who just gets a bee up his bonnet every so often.

      The horse got there to the show grounds...what is the alternative? leave him there? Tie him to the bumper?

      Tie him to somebody elses bumper?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
        For all we know, this horse could be a seasoned veteran of the show circuit who just gets a bee up his bonnet every so often.

        The horse got there to the show grounds...what is the alternative? leave him there? Tie him to the bumper?

        Tie him to somebody elses bumper?
        Yes, and they are willing to destroy this person's business for their 2 minutes of fame.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
          Oh, come on.
          You have never ever done anything that made you look ignorant/mean/abusive in your whole life?
          Oh! Oh! *raises hand*....I have!

          I had a horse walk behind me and goose me like a goat. I was FURIOUS....by the time I caught my balance, he was already spinning to run (sneaky punk) so I reached for the closest thing to me - it was a rock the size of a walnut. I threw it as hard as I could and nailed him right in the butt. I don't regret it either. He's never done it again. Had he been close I would have punched him with my fist. That was SO disrespectful!

          Another time I had a gelding lunge at my 6 year old daughter and grab her by the scalp with his teeth. I was right there and screamed at my daughter to run, I charged at him and whacked him in the ribs with the pitchfork handle I was holding. My daughter (now 13) recalls I tried to "stab him"....I hate it when she recalls the story.

          Not my best moments but nobody was there to record it. Except my daughters poor memory.

          Comment


          • I would label this treatment as abusive. There is no timing to her swing, no wait, and nothing that indicates she is doing anything other then blindly swinging at the horse. It was totally unproductive.

            Yes, if I saw someone doing this I would stop them.

            Yes, if I saw someone doing this and I thought it was abusive I would film it.

            Yes, I would turn it into the proper place and not put it on youtube.

            Yes, if I found out their name I would NEVER send a horse or suggest that anyone else send a horse to them.

            No, I do not think that losing your temper in this manner is ever acceptable.

            While I think horses can be big fat jerks they do so because they were trained wrong. Beating a horse onto a trailer (even with something that isn't going to leave a mark) is never going to teach it to load. Ever.
            http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • Alagirl,

              I understood your analogy, I just didn't agree with it. I do not see the two things as at all similar. Giggling at an event does not leave me an impression as significant as beating a horse into a trailer.

              Paula
              He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sithly View Post
                I was not okay with the fugly blog doing it, either.
                Me either.

                Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Are you saying that since people have done far worse to horses in far more agitated states I should not be concerned about her behavior because by comparison it could have been considerably worse?

                Paula
                No, it didn't come out as I meant it. Heh. In the other post, you kept saying my 'informed reality' when I think you meant my 'formed reality'. I couldn't figure out what YOU were saying!! But I took a stab at it. Sure, be concerned but methinks there is way too much handwringing and angst over something that the people STANDING AROUND didn't get bugged about. They were watching and went over to help. Unlike someone else we know (now) and now has a lot of clicks/hits on her blog. There isn't any other reason for her to do all this.

                Originally posted by TheBarnRules View Post
                Asia Voight didn't "show up", she was sent a link to the video and as far as I can tell she is in no way involved in the matter.
                Ohhhh. I thought I read where a pet psychic was gonna show up.

                Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                Absolutely! This world is getting totally crazy, and it is not a wonder that more and more people need absolutely dead horses with no expression or personality.

                OMG, you are so right! I spent Idon'tknowhowlong looking for a horse who actually looked like he WANTED to see me. Every other horse I looked, showed no interest in me whatsoever. Some not even cocking an ear towards me when I walked up to them. Just dead-eyed. They had been overly handled. But that seems to be what sells now and the dead-looking horse makes everyone associated with it look good...because they never do anything wrong. My Mr. Leo gave me a run for the money tonite and I'm sure someone would have thought I was abusive. But he's all personality and thought it would be fun to break into the hay barn (grass only in there). I wouldn't have any other way.

                Many people have said not appropriate to beat at a public venue, but if that IS where the horse is, and refusing to get on the trailer, then you do what you KNOW works with that horse, or you call a vet to put them down.
                Yup.

                Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                well, yes and no.

                3 minutes out of your life would hardly represent who you are and what you do.

                You get the giggles at an even and everybody brands you as an airhead, would that be fair?

                What would you do if somebody had it out for you?

                Looking for reasons to slam you at every turn. Not unlike Paparazzi who pray on the celeb tu jour having a public mishap.

                I don't think anybody condoned what the woman did.
                But however misplaced her actions were, they hardly count as abusive in my book. The horse got to the show ground somehow, it's not like the trailer appeared out of thin air....

                A pop with the whiffle bat, hardly terminal, nor injury inflicting, even in kids. Prudent horsemanship? Not really.

                Reason to slam this woman and unleash the unwashed pretty pony masses on her? HELL NO.
                Making other people do your stalker work for you, that should be criminal.
                Should somebody in the crowd be unstable enough to harm the woman from the video, you think that would be ok? In another context I'd qualify Ms Erica's actions as inciting a riot. Or at least it's close.
                It also put a person and her family in fear, not unreasonable at that. That's akin to terrorism.

                Now.
                Please tell me that is ok with you.

                This is not somebody who tied a horse to a tree that ended up bloody and dead, left a heard of 150 horses to starve or tripped a horse repeatedly in the name of sport.

                She bonked a horse on the fleshy part of the butt with a hollow plastic bat.
                (which is more humane to me than a whip which can leave welts, btw, and yet I would not hesitate to use either when the situation warranted it)
                Dead on, as usual.
                GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                  Alagirl,

                  I understood your analogy, I just didn't agree with it. I do not see the two things as at all similar. Giggling at an event does not leave me an impression as significant as beating a horse into a trailer.

                  Paula
                  well, depends on the job.

                  Would you want an airhead coroner or Chief of Police?
                  The point is that you pass judgment over this woman from a few minutes of video taken out of context.

                  Unless you have never ever lost your temper there is no room really to talk.

                  I know I have lost my temper, around a horse, around people, and but by the grace of God nobody filmed it.
                  I am sure I will mess up down the road again and behave inapropriately. However it may manifest itself.

                  I can only hope that no malicious person is around to tape it and post it on youtube, along with my personal information, like address and telephone number to harass me.

                  The act itself, we know it ain't good when you have to wallop on your horse in that manner.

                  However t really does not warrant what this videotaping Paparazzo is putting her through.
                  That person has a vendetta going and is kicking below the belt.
                  That is internet stalking and bullying.

                  Plain and simple.

                  Comment


                  • Goneriding,

                    RE: No, it didn't come out as I meant it. Heh. In the other post, you kept saying my 'informed reality' when I think you meant my 'formed reality'. I couldn't figure out what YOU were saying!! But I took a stab at it.

                    I see. I did actually mean "informed". When I say an experience informed your reality I meant that your perceptions and priorities are customized by your personal experiences. Just a way of speaking I suppose.

                    Alagirl,

                    I can only say that for me those few minutes of that trainer beating the horse made a huge impression. That for me how a person behaves under pressure makes a much bigger impression on me than how they behave when things are fine. So for me her behavior would guarantee she would never get any animal of mine.

                    I have lost my temper as I am only human. I've said it before and I'll say it again for clarity; it's not that she lost her temper, but that she lost perspective and took it out on her animal. I don't know how many times I'm expected to make that distinction. The reason for bad behavior may be that you are only human, but it is not an excuse for bad behavior.

                    Paula
                    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                    Comment


                    • The video has been removed from Youtube.
                      GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                        Goneriding,

                        RE: No, it didn't come out as I meant it. Heh. In the other post, you kept saying my 'informed reality' when I think you meant my 'formed reality'. I couldn't figure out what YOU were saying!! But I took a stab at it.

                        I see. I did actually mean "informed". When I say an experience informed your reality I meant that your perceptions and priorities are customized by your personal experiences. Just a way of speaking I suppose.

                        Alagirl,

                        I can only say that for me those few minutes of that trainer beating the horse made a huge impression. That for me how a person behaves under pressure makes a much bigger impression on me than how they behave when things are fine. So for me her behavior would guarantee she would never get any animal of mine.

                        I have lost my temper as I am only human. I've said it before and I'll say it again for clarity; it's not that she lost her temper, but that she lost perspective and took it out on her animal. I don't know how many times I'm expected to make that distinction. The reason for bad behavior may be that you are only human, but it is not an excuse for bad behavior.

                        Paula
                        True, and I don't think a lot of people do excuse her for losing it.

                        However, a single blowup does not define us. as we are human, we have many facettes - or layers, like onions.

                        But mostly what was created of this one 3 minute event was really so over the top, it is not even funny.

                        Going from one unpleasant event to a public harassment situation, that's pretty bad, really.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                          True, and I don't think a lot of people do excuse her for losing it.

                          However, a single blowup does not define us. as we are human, we have many facettes - or layers, like onions.

                          But mostly what was created of this one 3 minute event was really so over the top, it is not even funny.

                          Going from one unpleasant event to a public harassment situation, that's pretty bad, really.
                          You are hitting the nail squarely on the head time and time again here.

                          Think about the tired mother at the store with her new born and her 3yo who finally is a little more curt with her young one who will not stay in the cart than she should be. She certainly is not abusive, but firmer than she should be, louder than she should be. Both so much so that some people who insist you should never hurt Johnny's feeling ever would call it abuse, but in the grand scheme of life not even close to abuse. But lets say Miss I rule the world and I will make your life miserable (AKA the idiot with the video camera and an axe to grind) video tapes said mom just as she plops Johnny back into the cart and raises her voice to him.
                          The idiot with video camera posts it all over the internet, begging people to harass the mother and have her kids taken away.

                          Comment


                          • Nope, sorry, for your irate mother analogy to work she'd have to be way more than a little curt. In order for the analogy to work she'd have to say pick up a paper towel core -y'know doesn't hurt- and hit Johnny 21 times and in anger. Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack.

                            You ask "what are you doing?" and she says, "It doesn't hurt him."

                            Indeed, Johnny doesn't seem traumatized by it -doesn't freak out, just does what it was she wanted him to do that he wasn't doing.

                            NOW: you see a parent do that once in a grocery store do you think:

                            1. Eh; that's just a one-off, I'm sure this is just an isolated incident.
                            2. She's just being firmer than she should be/louder than she should be.


                            Really?

                            Paula
                            He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                            Comment


                            • I love you guys, but - Die, thread, die!
                              What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                                Nope, sorry, for your irate mother analogy to work she'd have to be way more than a little curt. In order for the analogy to work she'd have to say pick up a paper towel core -y'know doesn't hurt- and hit Johnny 21 times and in anger. Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack Smack smack smack.

                                You ask "what are you doing?" and she says, "It doesn't hurt him."

                                Indeed, Johnny doesn't seem traumatized by it -doesn't freak out, just does what it was she wanted him to do that he wasn't doing.

                                NOW: you see a parent do that once in a grocery store do you think:

                                1. Eh; that's just a one-off, I'm sure this is just an isolated incident.
                                2. She's just being firmer than she should be/louder than she should be.


                                Really?

                                Paula
                                Barn rat for life

                                Comment


                                • I guess there would be a boat load of siblings hung out to dry in the world so many of you live in.
                                  Gosh. I am sure my brother bashed me with a wiffle bat that many times more than once.
                                  Glad no one caught it on tape and tarred and feathered him. He had asked me to leave his army guys alone.

                                  Comment


                                  • Again; for the analogy to work your brother would have bashed you 21 times in anger with the wiffle bat. Now, if you're saying that this happened to you "many times" I'm sorry.

                                    Paula
                                    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
                                      The video has been removed from Youtube.
                                      Yep... youtube removed it, as requested by the police.
                                      High Quality Tack Resale

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by JSjumper View Post
                                        Yep... youtube removed it, as requested by the police.
                                        police

                                        This video has been removed because its content violated YouTube's Terms of Service
                                        The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                                          police
                                          As threats were made to the trainer's safety, yes, youtube was contacted and told to remove the video. So... what's funny about that? Please do explain.
                                          Last edited by JSjumper; Apr. 27, 2012, 10:11 AM. Reason: clarity.
                                          High Quality Tack Resale

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