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Why, Oh Why, Do People Do This? :(

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  • #61
    FK, I don't think anyone's disputing the efficacy of hippotherapy for autistic children. The issue here seems to be that the doctor has no experience with horses, knows nothing about them, had no professional help or guidance, and went and bought this weanling colt for his 10 year old autistic son. With no professionals (other than the inexperienced doctor) supervising the interaction, it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility that the child would be injured. IME, weanling colts are not good "pets" for anyone, but especially challenged people with inexperienced supervision. Every intact weanling I've ever encountered needed to be disciplined on a fairly consistent basis to learn manners; someone with no experience won't be able to do that. That, in and of itself, is a recipe for disaster, with not just the child, but the doctor as well. The blind leading the blind, as it were.

    Again, I don't think anyone's faulting the doctor for trying to do right by this colt, in putting the blanket on it. If indeed the colt died from this, it was probably an accident, something that could happen to any one of us. It's the folly of the original choice of the colt for the child that I have a problem with. And to say that someone with whom human lives are entrusted "just didn't know better" and was apparently unwilling to learn, is not an excuse.

    JMO.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

    Comment


    • #62
      Then jeez, well, I guess I'd better never, ever make a mistake of any kind, ever, in YOUR presence. I entrust my life to lots of people: airline pilots, my trainer, the guy driving in the semi in the next lane, the pharmacist, the dude who makes the soup at Panera bread...kinda scary to think that all those people could make a mistake at ANY MOMENT, huh?

      All this BS about autistic kids not being safe around horses is pitiful and a sad bunch of stereotyping. There are plenty of autistic kids that are perfectly fine around animals, and some "normal" kids who are a menace. And why there aren't therefore a HUNDRED threads about parents buying pets that are inappropriate is beyond me.

      I challenge those who have never made a mistake--even a BIG one--based upon ignorance to speak up. THOSE people should be horse owners, don't you think? And nobody else.

      Anyone? Anyone? I didn't think so.
      Click here before you buy.

      Comment


      • #63
        Temple Grandin is autistic. If you don't know who she is, do a google search. Autism/Asperger's IS NOT the same sort of handicap as say Down Syndrome, there are many perfectly teachable Autistics out there.(And perfectly teachable DS kids too, I do know that, just grabbed for a recognizeable, stereotyped syndrome as an illustration)

        Good lord you folks are a judgemental lot

        Comment


        • #64
          Ok, I thought of this when everyone started jumping on the doctor, so I'll say it.

          I hope he's not so judgemental of patients who come into him with cardiac problems who have been, long time smokers, over weight, poor eating habits. I'm sure there are NO people who fit those qualifications here on this board.

          Comment


          • #65
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
            Then jeez, well, I guess I'd better never, ever make a mistake of any kind, ever, in YOUR presence. I entrust my life to lots of people: airline pilots, my trainer, the guy driving in the semi in the next lane, the pharmacist, the dude who makes the soup at Panera bread...kinda scary to think that all those people could make a mistake at ANY MOMENT, huh?

            All this BS about autistic kids not being safe around horses is pitiful and a sad bunch of stereotyping. There are plenty of autistic kids that are perfectly fine around animals, and some "normal" kids who are a menace. And why there aren't therefore a HUNDRED threads about parents buying pets that are inappropriate is beyond me.

            I challenge those who have never made a mistake--even a BIG one--based upon ignorance to speak up. THOSE people should be horse owners, don't you think? And nobody else.

            Anyone? Anyone? I didn't think so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Jesus, who licked all the red off your candy?

            You're arguing with yourself, dw. No one's saying any of us are perfect, but we DO try to use common sense before undertaking a venture about which we know nothing. Those who don't, are stupid. Sorry, but that's just the way I feel. This man was smart enough to get through medical school and be a (hopefully) competent practitioner, but was unable to summon the common sense to investigate something he knew nothing about, before exposing his child (autistic or not) to it? And he should be excused on that point because "he didn't know any better"? Bull$h!t.
            In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
            A life lived by example, done too soon.
            www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

            Comment


            • #66
              So, do you think a 10 year old child should never own a weanling foal? Pony? minature? QH?

              I know a 12 year old whose first (ond only so far) was a yearling mustang adopted from the BLM. Wow, what an incredible match. He was in her backyard with no other horses. She spent lots of time just sitting on him - way before the professional was hired to break him. Well, that lasted 3 days, as they just didn't like how he was being treated. So the kid continued on her sitting on him while he walked around. They were SUCH a team - totally bonded, and trusted each other. A year later, he was w/t/c and she built a few jumps (poles on buckets). She trail rode him all over, and his first show, he put our ponies behavior to shame. NOTHING bothered him. He got some nice ribbons, jumped on the horse van each time, what a super boy. Well, the girl is now a Senior at Tech. She FIANLLY convinced her parents to let her take him with her. She is a 5'8" very leggy young lady, riding a 14.2 Mustang. She abslutely loves him.

              When I was a kid in elementary school, I had a friend with a chincoteague pony foal. I think we were about 7 years old. She "rode" him - one arm across his back w/t/c using her arm as a leg aid. We had a blast with that pony. We didn't know anything about dangerous horses behavior, but you know what, he didn't know it either. He was kept with one very old retired horse, but most of his time was spent with his kid.

              Kids don't get into ANYWHERE at much trouble as adults with youngsters... because they play with them constantly. They hang raincoats off of their ears, make them pull sleds, dress them up in contumes, wrap jingle bells around their legs. The youngsters become totally bomb proof. And they do it at an age where they are very impressionable and it lasts for a lifetime. You get hurt around youngsters when they are afraid. They learn to totally trust their kid.

              Comment


              • #67
                There's an autistic teenage girl in our trail club that gets along just fine on her horse. She attends the meetings and the rides and can handle her horse as well as any "normal" advanced beginner rider. She takes good care of him and treats him with ultimate kindness and love. I wish more kids would take lessons from her on caring for fellow creatures.
                Ride Mustangs - An American Original!

                Comment


                • #68
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ESG:
                  ......, but we DO try to use common sense before undertaking a venture about which we know nothing. .... And he should be excused on that point because "he didn't know any better"? Bull$h!t. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  And this ridiculous comment is pure Bull$h!t.

                  Every year, thousands of incompetent teenagers are turned loose on the roads behind the wheel of a brand new car that is way too much for them. Although many of those kids end up dinging that brand new car, most of them survive (as do most of those unfortunante enough to share their encounter).

                  Every year, thousands of gung-ho horseowners buy a brand new horse trailer that they haven't a clue how to pull, hook it up to an inadequate towing vehicle, throw their horse on board, and tear off down the highway like it was the Indy 500 or something. Most of them (and their horses) survive, albeit puzzled by why their wonderful horse all of sudden refuses to load onto the trailer.

                  The world is 95% idiots who don't know enough about what they are doing to be more than half-way safe most of the time. Only a small percentage of them actually come to real grief resulting from their ignorance/stupidity. There are a million things any one person does in the course of their lifetime that has the potential for disaster that never materializes. And there are millions of times where the person does "everything right" and the damn thing STILL goes haywire and ends up in a horrid mess.

                  Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    It's a wonder ANY of us are still alive, really.
                    Click here before you buy.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Well, shit... Now I'm terrified to drive to TN tomorrow...

                      I agree, some of you sound pretty darn judgmental. I mean, let's put it in your own "experienced horse person" speak. Have you ever had a nice horse that you rode and jumped and then had someone else sit on him, only to tell you he was jumping flat or at the jump because he was too sore to jump properly? Shouldn't you have known better if you are a professional? Probably. Did you feel like crap because you missed all the signs? Probably. Are you going to learn a lesson from experience? Hopefully.
                      Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Okay - y'all win. Let's have every non-horse person whose sole idea of how to interact with horses comes from watching Disney movies and Black Beauty reruns, go out and buy a weanling colt for their kid to play with. That should solve everything.
                        In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                        A life lived by example, done too soon.
                        www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why in the world would someone sell a colt to someone who knows absolutely nothing about horses, has no experience with horses and to someone who said they were buying the colt for their autistic 10 year old? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Why are you mad at the horse seller? For all we know the buyer was one of those people who *sounded* nice, made promised about great care, and said they had lots of horse friends who'd help them.

                          I blame the owner who really is the one ultimately responsible here. He is a doctor so presumably he's an intelligent man.... but he thought a baby colt was a good choice as a first-horse and for an autistic child. People like him are why warning labels now cover most everything people buy.

                          Just the idea of putting a normal child in with a 6 month old colt sounds dangerous to me. I am still in shock -- what was he thinking!?

                          I feel bad for the horse! Poor thing. And I should probably also feel bad for the child whose father has zero common sense which eventually result in the child being injured next time dad has a "good idea".
                          Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Once again, you have NO IDEA what the owner of the colt was PLANNING to do. For all anyone knows he was going to send the colt to a trainer the NEXT DAY. Talk about leaps of imagination...can we maybe agree that a foal is not a great "pet" and that an accident happened which is tragic and regrettable and maybe just leave our collective imaginations out of it?
                            Click here before you buy.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I have a grip, thanks.

                              And for the fiftieth time, no one is blaming the doctor for the accident with the blanket. Shit does indeed happen. To anyone, any time, anywhere.

                              But that's not what I object to. The OP made it fairly clear that the doctor in question had no help, no knowledge, no clue, and went out and bought an inappropriate horse for his kid to "play with". No trainer, no consulting, no supervision, no one to tell him to smack the little booger when he goes to bite, or not to stand behind him, not to let him step or walk on him or his kid, etc, etc, etc. And if HE doesn't know these things, how will he tell his kid how to handle the horse and not get hurt?

                              All of you who have foals/weanlings for your kids, I commend you. BUT, I suspect you knew a little about horses in general before putting your precious child in the vicinity of something that could easily injure him/her. You had SOME knowledge of equine behaviour, and could instruct your child in the right way to handle the horse while still learning and enjoying it. This doctor didn't have this, according to the OP. To me, this is inexcusable. You wouldn't hand your child a loaded BB gun, or a string of firecrackers, or even a plastic bag to play with, in case they took it into their head to try to breathe through it. To me, that's what this doctor did; bought a potentially dangerous "toy" for his kid without knowing dick about how to handle it himself, much less tell his kid. Stooooo-pid.
                              In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                              A life lived by example, done too soon.
                              www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Isn't there a well-known poster on this BB who is always telling people to "read for comprehension"?

                                What I can extract from the original post is that the OP heard this story secondhand and WAS GOING TO call the doctor. There the facts end. The rest (to me) sounded like an expression of sadness and frustration. Where is it "fairly clear" that there was no supervision, etc?
                                Click here before you buy.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chocomare:
                                  Why in the world would someone sell a colt to someone who knows <span class="ev_code_RED">absolutely nothing about horses, has no experience with horses and to someone who said they were buying the colt for their autistic 10 year old? </span>
                                  </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  As you said, read for comprehension. Pretty clear to me.
                                  In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                  A life lived by example, done too soon.
                                  www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    The issue is NOT that accidents happen, as obviously they can and DO - to anybody. Competency and experience is not always going to protect you. The issue here is common sense.

                                    I'm not going argue with anybody who can present numerous examples of children (autistic or not) or adults (intelligent or not) or even turn out buddies (appropriate or not) that enjoy wonderful relationships with their equine friends. That's hardly the point. And suggesting that kids (and I was one of them btw) come to no harm by engaging in fun (albeit thoughtless) behaviors like jumping their ponies over very sharp, very high and very solid white picket fences or dangling strands of barbed wire, bareback with nothing but a lead rope around the neck with no helmet or boots.... or galloping down a slippery paved road at night in the pouring rain cuz you're very LATE... or sitting on a 2 yr old's back, and hoping he stands still while your best friend boosts you aboard whilst throwing handfuls of grain on the ground is not a problem because neither you or me was hurt or killed doing this, is a rather spurious defense at best. As we mature as a society, many situations that were historically considered tolerable (if not perfectly acceptable) have since become problematic concerns. (Examples of this would include drinking/driving, physically abusing your spouse/children, sex with minors (at least in SOME states :-) etc etc.)

                                    Now before anybody gets all bent out of shape and does not understand that the above mentioned scenarios are ILLUSTRATIONS, and instead attempts to suggest that I'm somehow comparing these situations with the doctor in question - please let me state the bleed'n obvious. The good doctor was no doubt well meaning - he felt that a weanling(?) would be beneficial for his obviously loved child, went so far as to select one, and further, cared enough to consider the foal's comfort on a cold night and felt compelled to blanket it. It's really tough to jump all over the doc for these rather altruistic behaviors for sure, and I feel honestly sick for him and the foal. I'm sure all involved are inconsolable. :-(

                                    However, I would bet that his home was very methodically kid proofed (locking up household cleaners/drugs/guns etc ) and I bet his teachers and babysitters were thoroughly vetted, and I bet his child's medications (if any) were fully researched and are carefully dispensed and monitored. This is entirely normal behavior for any parent. Further, we have to remember that fact that the child is 10, and that he is autistic had probably nothing to do whatsoever with the fact that the foal is dead either. So these issues are really kind of a red herring. The real question I would have is if the doctor originally felt that a weanling would be a good "pet" or companion for ANYBODY that lacked fundamental basic horse skills. (Presumably both he and his son would fall in to this category). Even experienced horse people who have ridden all their lives do not necessarily have a clue about handling/disciplining youngsters or stallions or hot horses! It's truly amazing how many very VERY good riders have no idea how to break/start a young horse. And this is not a negative comment or reflection of anybody who just has not had the experience in these kinds of situations! It is merely the reality, and I think that any educated person would (or should) be at least reasonably cognizant of these salient points! Of course you will be able to present exceptions. That's life. But I bet most if not all of you would want an EXPERIENCED person starting your young warmblood..not the enthusiastic 12 yr old horse crazy neighbor girl who is begging you to let her hang around your temperamental 3 yr old. The argument could be made that this girl just MIGHT bond with your youngster - but it is simply not relevant and really does not matter. The PRUDENT decision would be to have the horse started by an experienced competent trainer. Why invite a lawsuit or training setback because you personally know of some 12 yr old who got on some horse for the very first time and now they are kicking serious butt in Pony Club? So what? Exceptions prove nothing, and just wind up encouraging behaviors and supporting decisions that often times just end up disappointing or injuring those involved.

                                    It's very tragic and who knows..maybe everything would have turned out OK sans the blanket incident, but I still think the initial decision was a poor one (or at least questionable) anyways. There are other ways to introduce this kind of environment to those that would most definitely benefit. After all, how many threads are there on COTH warning riders about starting babies when you've never trained before, or buying horses that are hot/flamboyant that they cannot ride or sit? Too numerous to count. Doesn't mean it can never work..but odds are against the alone/inexperienced that's for sure!

                                    JMHO VG

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Original Post:

                                      Paragraph #1: the facts
                                      Paragraph #2: lament and general (although not necessarily fact-based) rhetorical question
                                      Paragraph #3: sympathetic comment
                                      Paragraph #4: plan to help

                                      Sorry, chocomare, to torture your initial and well-meaning post. I will now let ESG have the last word...again.
                                      Click here before you buy.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        WOW, you guys must raise some serious nutjobs for babies

                                        We have kids around the babies all the time. The ONLY time I think we need to make sure there is competent help is for things like vet care, farrier care, etc. Basic leading, grooming, etc is just not that dangerous unless you have wacko baby.

                                        Too funny. It starts as a foal, and ends up as an unbroke stallion.

                                        NO one has a clue if they had arranged for someone nearby to be on hand to help them with any problems that develop, help with vet care, etc. The Dr may have made arrangements for lessons for the kid.

                                        Horses kept by themselves are SO incredibly much calmer and more dependable than when they have herd mentality.

                                        Yes, we have grown as a society. Sometimes that is not an improvement. The real horsemen of this world are fast disappearing. Most people now can't read horse body language, and don't have the horse "instincts" that people use to develop by having a closer relationship with their horse.

                                        No one on this thread can have a clue as to if this foal was a good match or not, or how much help was available. Horses are all different. Some are absolute angels, and NOTHING phases them.

                                        Maybe the kid wouldn't have gone near the foal without the horse person overseeing it.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Maybe someday we will look back at those people that use to Event, and say, "WOW, can you imagine how stupid we were when people actually jumped their horses over that kind of stuff? Thank God we have grown as a society and know just how dangerous that stuff was." "WOW, can you imagine people use to actually get on and ride their horses? How stupid!"

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