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upset daughter -- need advice!

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  • Well, where to start? So much has been said.


    Originally posted by maj's mom:
    What can I do for her, and for her horse?
    The throught of the horse in a bad situation tears at me too -- he's a super little fellow, and to send him to an uncertain future, unwillingly or no, I can't abide with either.

    I need some advice, suggestions, support -- you name it!
    My advice to Mom: show this thread to your daughter. It's all there in black and white - the good, the bad and, yes, the ugly. I'm sure in this thread your daughter will find answers to some of her questions, and no doubt it will raise many more ... there's some much more than just "what to do with Sam" going on here.

    But anyway, to do with Sam - if you don't want to see him in a bad situation then short answer = keep him.
    where am I, what day is it, am I still having a good time?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Horse with No Name:
      But anyway, to do with Sam - if you don't want to see him in a bad situation then short answer = keep him.
      But you could say that about any horse. It's an uncertainty you have to accept with any sale -- and most everyone will sell at some point.

      In this case I think a lease/sale would be more likely to ensure the horse a good future, wherever he ends up. He's 4, has past issues, needs his own "person" and wilts w/o regular work. Maj's mom sounds frustrated with her daughter, sure, but I think she's genuinely concerned about Sam's welfare. In addition to maybe wanting him out of her hair.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Albion:
        Since when is 4+ years considered a "brief sabbatical"? (make that 8 if she goes to college after that)
        First, where exactly do you get your numbers? It was my impression that the young lady wanted to retrieve her horse as soon as she was stationed somewhere that would allow her to have him. No one knows how long that will be. Second, she will be home (I would hope) on leave and during college would have much home time. Plus, the OP said in her first post that her daughter wants to get him as soon as she can take him. I don't think she plans to have him stay on the farm with their other four horses all through school, just during the brief period when she literally can not keep him. Finally, yes, I do think 4 years is a brief sabatical 'in the great scheme of things' or even in a horse's life. Say the horse lives until he's 25. He's 4 now, so if they weren't parted until death, that's 21 years. Even if she was unable to spend the next 4 years with him, there would still be 17 years to go. That is a LONG damn time to own a horse. To me, an extended sabatical is 10-30 years. There are many people on this board with such experiences - stopping for college and starting riding again at age 30/40/50+. Comparatively, 4 years isn't anything to that.

        Originally posted by MayS:
        She is *choosing* to go away to the Air Force, nobody is making her go. So she needs to accept part of that decision means she can't bring her horse with her. I agree 100% it makes no sense to let the horse just sit around in a field.

        If you bail her out of this one to keep her from crying, she has learned that she doesn't always need to deal with the bad consequences of her decisions. THIS is the more important issue here, not who will own/ride this horse next year.
        Yep, she's choosing to go. Instead of trafficing drugs, getting pregnant, becoming a hooker, or becoming a criminal, this brave young woman is *choosing* to join the AF because it is the only way she can get a college education and create a decent life for herself in which she won't have to fall back on her parents and move in with them when she's 30 because ends won't meet.

        Yes. She should absolutely deal with the consequences of her decision. She shouldn't be punished for making it. Her mother speaks of her with pride and esteem, and commends her for taking this step, especially when one of the consequences is possible death or disability. Should we shoot her or push her out of a plane just to make sure she realizes the consequences of her choice? That's utter lunacy, and cruel to boot. But making her give up her horse - HA! That will surely teach her and make her pay for her crimes. Doesn't she know she could make a living much more quickly by selling cocaine? Hey, that way she could live at home still, and keep her horse.

        By all means, don't dare reward her for hard work and hard choices by temporarily letting her horse live where it is now among your other 4 horses. Hell, she might gain resolve then and persevere because she has something to come home to. Fools, really, young people these days.

        Comment


        • because it is the only way she can get a college education
          Says who? I realize recruiters for a lot of branches (and the Nat'l Guard) love to play up the GI Bill aspect, but come on. There are magical things called ... loans. Why is the AF the ONLY way? I know plenty of people who went to/are in college whose parents couldn't afford to send them, so they figured out ways around that. They worked, they got loans, they got scholarships. They did NOT join the military.

          I'm an Army brat, so I understand the demands that being in the military can place on a family. Hell, giving up things is part and parcel of being in the military. However, to act like joining the Air Force is the ONLY option to get a college education if your parents can't cough up the cash to send you is pretty disingenuous.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Albion:
            Why is the AF the ONLY way?
            The OP said that in their circumstances this was the only way she would get to go. Loans, scholarships, etc, are matters of a different discussion. I was speaking within the context that the OP provided. Anyway, I guess I can't be anymore clear than I've been in my previous posts, so that's all for now.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Albion:
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> because it is the only way she can get a college education
              Says who? I realize recruiters for a lot of branches (and the Nat'l Guard) love to play up the GI Bill aspect, but come on. There are magical things called ... loans. Why is the AF the ONLY way? I know plenty of people who went to/are in college whose parents couldn't afford to send them, so they figured out ways around that. They worked, they got loans, they got scholarships. They did NOT join the military. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Not just that, but I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE that she could also apply for....wait for it...an Air Force scholarship, go to college now on the Government dime, then give her time afterwards.

              Hummm, if she did that, would mom be *allowed* to sell the horse?
              Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SLW:
                Invested1, you and I should both kick our parents out of family trees for what they did to us as kids.

                Seriously, next time I talk to them, I'll bring it back up.
                Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TB or not TB?:
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Albion:
                  Since when is 4+ years considered a "brief sabbatical"? (make that 8 if she goes to college after that)
                  First, where exactly do you get your numbers? It was my impression that the young lady wanted to retrieve her horse as soon as she was stationed somewhere that would allow her to have him. No one knows how long that will be. Second, she will be home (I would hope) on leave and during college would have much home time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  I wish the young lady luck in bringing a horse to her base with her. As a linguist, she will be in classes ALL day, and likely start getting deployed once she's done with her training. She will not have a 9 to 5 job for *at least* 4 years.
                  Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

                  Comment


                  • and to add to my previous post...

                    If the daughter wants to go to college (good for her!) she could do what many of us have done: get a JOB and go to school at night. Or get a night job and go to school during the day.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FlightCheck:
                      If the daughter wants to go to college (good for her!) she could do what many of us have done: get a JOB and go to school at night. Or get a night job and go to school during the day.
                      My thoughts too. Joining the AF isn't the only way to go to college. Heck, I left horses & started playing soccer again to get a scholarship for school since horses wouldn't pay for it in addition to having a job.
                      "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                      Comment


                      • I don't think the daughter is asking too much. She's in a tough position. It's not like she's 40 years old, living in the basement, refusing to get a job, and expecting her parents to pay the expenses. She is going off to join the armed forces, and in the present climate, may be risking her life for an education.

                        As far as loans go, I know that in some places, parents are expected to help with tuition etc. If their income reaches a certain level. The student cannot get much financial aid, whether or not the parents are actually willing to help. It sounds like the daughter is doing what she has to do to get an education. She is being mature and very brave.

                        The thought of joining the AF and possibly going to war must be scary in itself. If having the horse gives the daughter some peace of mind, then let her keep it.

                        A family is a family because the members help and support each other whenever possible.
                        If the OP sells the horse, I hope she, her husband and her younger daughter are never in need of help from the older daughter. I would laugh in their faces.

                        As to the posters who said that horses don't get attached to people, I think you're wrong. If you give the horse a chance to get attached to you, it will. If you treat it like a thing, it won't. Perhaps the ability of the horse to attach to its owner is related to the ability of the owner to attach to the horse.

                        Tosca

                        Comment


                        • Loans are not all they are cracked up to be...

                          The feds will only give you 5,500 a year MAX at their interest rate. My fiance had to get loans from other places as well, and his parents contributed to his education also, as much as they could.

                          Cut to now: I have 25,000 in student loans, which I have been told is a MODEST amount. Fiance has 75,000 in student loans. Yes, that's right, combined we have 100,000 big ones in student loans to pay back in the next 20 years. We could buy a condo for that. Hell, in some states we could buy a house and farm!

                          So yea, joining the AF might be the only way.

                          For all of you who think selling a horse is not big deal... Not all of us have the same feelings about our horses. Some horse people have no problem selling a horse when it is time to move on, and some people make a living dealing horses. Others have a much closer relationship with their horse; it is not just their horse. My horse is not just my horse, he is my best friend, and my other horse is like my child. Do you have a dog that sleeps on your bed at night and that you take everywhere? For some of us, getting rid of a horse is that same as getting rid of that dog. Would you want your parents to sell your dog if you went into the AF? It's the same thing.

                          To Maj's mom, I know if she was my daughter, and I knew she wanted me to keep him for her, and god forbid that something happened to her, I would never be able to forgive myself for giving him away or selling him.

                          Comment


                          • For those of you who think choosing to serve your country is a poor choice that you should be punished for, I strongly encourage you to brush up on your history a little bit. Review the bloody details of WWI, WWII, Korean, Vietnam, and see where this country would be if we had no young ladies and men willing to step up to the plate.
                            Two Simple, get over yourself. To imply that anyone who suggests that perhaps the daughter ought to explore other options if she's absolutely hysterical over the idea of her horse being leased out or sold is ignorant of their history is outrageous. I'm the daughter of a military historian, thanks - knew a damn bit more about every war America's been involved in by the age of 8 than most adults.

                            Again, I am an Army brat. Pick a male out of my family & it's pretty likely they were career officers. My stepfather is a D-day veteran, my grandfather fought in the Pacific. I don't need YOU to tell me to go "look up my history."

                            As for TB or not TB's contention that she'll bring her horse with her as soon as she's stationed in a place where that's feasible - who knows when that will be? My dad was an MI officer, and he got stationed placed like Korea and Turkey. If you think a lower grade enlisted person will be able to afford transport for a horse to some far off country, you're REALLY dreaming about how much they pay our military.

                            Hey, I don't entirely understand why the horse can't stay out as a pasture puff, either. I'm just saying that the military is not the only way.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Two Simple:
                              For those of you who think choosing to serve your country is a poor choice that you should be punished for, I strongly encourage you to brush up on your history a little bit. Review the bloody details of WWI, WWII, Korean, Vietnam, and see where this country would be if we had no young ladies and men willing to step up to the plate. I'm sure most of you here shouting about this "bad choice" would be the first to disapear over the Canadian border if the draft came knocking on your door.
                              I don't think anybody is belittleing the daughter for choosing to join the AF (at least I am not). I think you are getting a little off topic here...would you feel the same if the daughter had instead decided to go to an out of state college?? Or what if the OP hadn't mentioned why daughter was leaving, but "just leaving the area"? Again, I don't think anybody is against her joining the AF or serving her country.

                              I feel the daughter is asking a lot of the OP--to take financial responsiblity & care for her horse for an unknown amount of time (it could be years & years). What if something happens to the OP's situation & she needs to get rid of the horse? Now daughter will have no say or be able to assist in re-homing the horse cause she won't be around. As for people who think it's "free" to have a horse at home or as a pasture pet--you must do it differently than we do. Horses still need routine vet work, shoeing, dental, feed, stabling...IMHO I think it would be cruel to take this horse as is from life as he's known it & turn him out 24/7 free willy while waiting for his owner to come re-claim him when she's at the right point in her life. The OP already stated she does not own her farm & therefore it costs her $$ to have a horse sitting around. Daughter is who thinks horse can't be a pasture pet. Daughter is who refuses to consider leasing the horse out or finding a share-boarder. I think the daughter needs to become more flexible about what her horse can do if she wishes to keep him. A lot can happen in the years she may be gone in the AF & then school.

                              To the OP--best of luck to your daughter. She has many decisions to make in the next year & they won't be easy ones.
                              "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                              Comment


                              • Somehow I think the solution that will eventually work best lies somewhere between "sell the horse, it's a cruel old world" and "keep the horse forever, it's the least you can do". As in most situations, the gray area in between either extreme is usually where the correct solution lies.
                                Click here before you buy.

                                Comment


                                • I get confused when people start throwing around terms like "entitlement" when dealing with situations like this...since when did normal family support for eachother turn into entitlement? Does the daughter have a "right" to have her mom take care of her horse...well, no. But, the rest of her family didn't have a "right" to her horse training services either.

                                  Parents don't have a right to have their kids take care of them when they are old. My sister doesn't have a right to the money I send when she's in a tough spot. My mother doesn't have a right to my taking care of her horse so she doesn't have to in a colder climate.

                                  As a family, you help eachother out; especially when it means allowing a family member to keep something that is very dear to them.

                                  So, I am going to echo the sentiment that although the daughter doesn't have a right or an entitlement, this is the kind of situation that could (and, if you don't do the right thing I hope) come around to bite you in the ass. If you could assist your daughter now, and don't, what is going to stop her from down the road, when she can assist you in something, decides not to, because you don't have an entitlement to it and it's going to be a inconvenience to her?
                                  ******************************
                                  \"Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?\" RIP Hunter S. Thompson 1937-2005

                                  Member of the Ebay addicts, warmblood, child of

                                  Comment


                                  • the Bible says your husband comes before your children (and after God!).
                                    I think this tells us that the bible was written by husbands.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Two Simple:
                                      When a person makes the choice to bear a child, they are also making the choice to be a parent for the rest of their life. Child rearing doesn't end at 18 yr old when the kid goes off to college or gets married.
                                      I agree also, but I don't believe the OP is shunning or disowning her daughter once she leaves for the AF. She simply doesn't want to care for the daughter's horse (which daughter has placed MANY restrictions on so it makes difficult) any longer which is her choice.

                                      It costs me about $65 per horse for mine to be pasture pets at home. Unless the parents of this young lady are in a financial ruin, I'm certain they can aford $65 per month, especially when they are ALREADY paying it and thus far have had no problems. How is it any different that the daughter will now be gone? If anything it would be cheaper for them because they're not feeding their daughter anymore.
                                      I don't know where you are located, but it costs us about $200/month per horse to have them at home. I believe the OP was from IL also? Our horses don't live the life or luxury nor are they skimping by...somewhere in between in a modest 2 stall 30 x 40 backyard barn. And somehow I have a feeling we don't know all the details so perhaps there is financial hardship. Maybe the daughter currently pays (or helps) for her horse? OP also stated she doesn't mind having a horse if is is being used or given attention--sitting in a pasture taking up space & costing $$ perhaps isn't how she chooses to spend her money.

                                      When I was young, my parents never considered a horse a luxury ware. The horse was my best friend and my "busy maker" that kept me from becoming interested in other bad pre-teen and teen stuff. Horses were a part of the family's legacy. It was something we all did together, and the horses were family members.
                                      You are fortunate. Horses are a luxury in my family, not a necessity. Not that my family has ever said that or anything, it was just always something I realized that if times ever got tough, luxuries could be cut back or scaled down. Granted I had ponies & then didn't have my first horse until I was 21 because I wasn't in a position in life where I could have one.

                                      Fancy saddles, expensive bridles, and $200 Ramblo blankets were DEFINITELY luxury wares though! lol. We didnt have that stuff. Our horses had very modest equipment and accomodations.
                                      Again, agreed. Those were also luxury items I did without or made choices to do without other stuff if I wanted them. Still do today.

                                      So, I don't know, I must just have a different viewpoint on all this due to the way I was raised.
                                      And that's exactly what it is...your viewpoint. Just as I have mine. Which the OP asked for people's views & wouldn't this have been a boring thread if everybody had the same one??
                                      "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                                      Comment

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