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upset daughter -- need advice!

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  • #61
    Ok...here's my two cents, and understand some background: my family is very supportive of eachother, and have frequently assisted eachother no matter the stage of life we were in.

    I went away to school, and left two horses with my mum; she had one mare. Now, I am in a position to not only take care of my two, but also take care of my mom's mare (which I do). Not only that, but within the next year or two I will be in a position to completely take care of my mother; condo in Hawaii, etc.

    If my mother had not been there for me when I left for school, and taken care of my most precious "possessions," I don't know if I would be so willing to provide as much as I will. Yes, she's my mother, and I care for her apart from what she did/can do for me...however, I think it's a pretty big indication of how selfless and truly caring a person/family member is when they are willing to take care of something important to you when it inconveniences them. Plus, I likely would not have gone as far with my education, and been as successful as I am, without her support. Furthermore, it is likely that I *would* have harbored resentments for a good long while, and she wouldn't be enjoying the fruits of my labor like she is...she had another horse at home too.

    Bottom line: She doesn't sound like a selfish girl; it doesn't sound like she needs this "life lesson." It sounds like she is trying to make her way in the world. She's not even asking you to front tuition (generally much more than the cost of an extra pasture horse). It's not going to hurt the horse that much to just hang out and be a pasture-pet. If it works out that a 4-Her or Pony Clubber can come give some attention, great. But, if not I think that the feelings of your daughter should take precedence.
    ******************************
    \"Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?\" RIP Hunter S. Thompson 1937-2005

    Member of the Ebay addicts, warmblood, child of

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    • #62
      Okay, I've read the whole thread. I'm on the mother's side--the horse needs to go and it's the adult daughter's responsibility to find him a home. Mom is already doing a huge favor by offering to find a suitable new place for him!

      This young lady is an adult, she has made an adult choice to enter the military, and therefore she is accepting the lifestyle that comes with the military. God bless her for serving us, but this is adulthood we're talking about, not a fifth grade citizenship award.

      I've read many financial books advising they VERY WORST THING that you can do for your child once they enter the working world is to continue supporting them financially in any way, shape, or form. Everyone needs that cruel financial shock of the early twenties years: without it, most people never learn to properly balance their checkbooks or to figure out what they most value in life.

      As long as the horse finds a loving home or lease situation, I don't see the problem here. If daughter has attachment issues, she's going to have a rough ride in the Air Force. I come from an Army family myself and I watched my best friend go through the Naval Academy and into the military's medical school program to become a flight surgeon: attachment is a no-go in this lifestyle. Let this be the daughter's first lesson about what servicepeople give up for the pride and dignity of their wonderful work, and bless the mother for even offering to help!
      Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

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      • #63
        Excellent post jenny, I wholeheartedly agree!

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        • #64
          Every winter during the rainy season my horses go on a temporary layoff. With the mentality of the original poster, it would therefore make the most sense to just sell them to Arizonans instead of shelve them until spring, and then start over and buy another if I were still interested. Sheesh.

          And I guess those times the horse was sitting around on pasture on his fat buttkuss waiting for me to recover from injury or illness was time wasted on his part, too.

          And then there's all the older, retired horses who suddenly get un-retired and recycled back into beginner's horses some day. Or the horse that somehow recovers from illness or injury that seemed career ending, because his human waited for him. A horse that actually works its entire life, when subjected to our human whims and foibles, is a rarity.

          I had to re-read this thread several times and was at least relieved that my initial impression of dismay that an ugly gelding must work or go was not unreasonable. Then I finally saw the words "stepdad" and " sister,biological daughter." Oh. Now I think I get it.

          Okay, look Mom, since it sounds like you don't actually like looking at the horse, and as my being an adult person with a stepparent and a mother who had to make compromises, I think I can guess where you are actually coming from, and I really don't like it, but that was then and this is now. It would be really kind of you to agree to keep the horse for a year provided your daughter pay upkeep on him, so she feels some sort of sense of continuity with her civilian emotional life, but if you don't want to, she needs to lease him or pasture board him somewhere and then make her decision later on keep or sell. But I am not going to agree that your daughter should not have had at least hope that he could have been pasture boarded at home, for say the first year. She doesn't know what is going to happen to herself long term, and she probable wants to feel that at least the horse would be safe short term.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by jn4jenny:
            Okay, I've read the whole thread. I'm on the mother's side--the horse needs to go and it's the adult daughter's responsibility to find him a home. Mom is already doing a huge favor by offering to find a suitable new place for him!

            This young lady is an adult, she has made an adult choice to enter the military, and therefore she is accepting the lifestyle that comes with the military. God bless her for serving us, but this is adulthood we're talking about, not a fifth grade citizenship award.

            If daughter has attachment issues, she's going to have a rough ride in the Air Force. I come from an Army family myself and I watched my best friend go through the Naval Academy and into the military's medical school program to become a flight surgeon: attachment is a no-go in this lifestyle. Let this be the daughter's first lesson about what servicepeople give up for the pride and dignity of their wonderful work, and bless the mother for even offering to help!
            Okay first off you need to do a little more reading in the neuropsychology area and you will see 18 and 19 are hardly adults. Anyone who thinks the military treats them as adults contact me there is a great bridge connecting brooklyn to manhattan you might be interested in.

            Currently I work for the government and the biggest problem I run into when I review programs is the tendancy of the developers to just abandon their development once it is out in the field. This is wrong and against accepted systems engineering practice. I would hope that parents woudl at least show the same about of responsiblity towards their kids as we expect program managers to show to their projects.

            As far as attachments and horses in the military. I bought my first horse when I was a LT(jg) When I retired I still had that same horse and all her descendants. It can be done just takes a little planning and forethought. I was not the only one in the military to accomplish this. Though many military families declared that moving a dog was just "too hard". Basically to them a dog or any pet was just a toy that had become inconvenient and therefore disposable. Personally I prefer military memebers show a little more personal responsibility than that.
            "I am sorry, I lead a bit of a complex life, things don't always happen in the right order" The Doctor

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            • #66
              Blondie, Sannois what compassion!!! Right on the detailer, they can't be trusted. I still don't understand. Are you angry with her that she joined the AF? She has an enormous adjustment ahead of her just getting used to the service. You are rewarding her courage to serve her country with this awful ultimatium. My heart breaks for her. Anyone who has had their horse sold out from underneath them should be more understanding of this girl's anguish. I don't think kids being so dependent has anything to do with this. If you love and respect your child as a human being with deep commitments and feelings, you will respect her as you would any other human being hopefully more and not say, Ha Ha, welcome to adulthood. This is what the real world is like, tough luck kid!!! I see why so many grow up and distance themselves from their parents if this "gotcha" attitude toward them turning 18 is so widespread. My daughter is not dependent, was never dependent. She stood on her own two feet in college and on. No reason for me to stab her in the back just because she turned 18 or chose to serve her country and leave home.

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              • #67
                18 is considered legal adult age for joining the military getting married etc. Drinking varies from state to state, so yes she IS classified as an adult in the numerical sense.

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                • #68
                  From the response of half these people its obvious why the young people are so dependant and irresponsible. The OP is right on the money, and the daughter will not die, if the horse is sold or leased. The Military will keep her plenty busy!

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                  • #69
                    8 is considered legal adult age for joining the military getting married etc. Drinking varies from state to state, so yes she IS classified as an adult in the numerical sense.
                    Only in an artificial legal sense and then not in all ways as you stated. I was one of the first to be considered an adult at 18. The impetus was a woman in AZ who declared that since her son was an adult at 18 and could not sign a legally binding contract with out her consent. He could not sign a contract with the army drafted or not. Dropping the age of majority to 18 was seen as a solution to that problem. That and several politiions thought they could get the youth vote by doing that and letting the kids drink. Well now if you want federal highway funds in your state the drinking age is 21.

                    Biologically however the critical decision making center of the brain are under formation and more or less off line until 25. Something the actuaries at avis and hertz figured out long ago. And Neuroscience has recently verified.

                    And yes you can join the military at 18 you can join at 17 with parents permission but that doesn't mean your sargent or company officer is going to treat you like a responsible adult.
                    "I am sorry, I lead a bit of a complex life, things don't always happen in the right order" The Doctor

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      My post is all over the board.

                      Look.......your daughter is showing tremendous COURAGE by joining the military in a time of war. She might think she's going to just be a "linguist", but that doesn't mean she'll not end up overseas.

                      Yes, she's entering an "adult" world. But, isn't the least you owe her that the one thing that gives her pleasure will be taken care of?

                      I understand he might need to be worked continuously. I have a horse that HATES to not be in work.

                      I certainly hope you have told that sister that doesn't want to help that when she goes to college/military that her horse too will be up for sale unless she starts saving now or helping her sister who is risking her life for our country in a time of war.

                      Isn't it possible that your daughter is scared to death about her future in the AF? Maybe that was all the courage she could muster. It just is too emotional for her to also have the courage to give up her horse.

                      Unfortunately, my best friend (who is a veternarian) just had a baby. She lives near the Springs. I know she would keep your daughter's horse,if things weren't so crazy for her now. Her and her husband (an Aussie cowboy) have quite the menagerie of formally abused animals.

                      Your daughter's future is uncertain. Therefore, I encourage you to have her contact your local pony club. She might be so against leasing b/c she hasn't found the right person yet. There is someone out there who is just waiting to lease or care for her horse, and who is someone who she will feel comfortable with. She cannot possibly be a focused member of our armed services if she is worried about her beloved best friend. She needs to find a win-win situation.

                      One last thing.....tell her everybody here on the COTH BB is honored to have her serving our country. We owe her our freedom!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        When I was 17, I had to make these choices too. I rehomed my two horses and joined the real world. I have been incredibly successful in my life -- great career, great home, great husband, great friends. Regardless, I consider the years between 17 and 37 to be completely wasted, because I "did the responsible adult thing" and gave up my passion.

                        That said, I don't blame my parents because I made my own decision and my own arrangements. I broke my own heart, not understanding the price that would be paid. Years before, my father got rid of a dog I loved -- and I never really forgave him for that. Oh, we had a good relationship, but I never forgot that betrayal and disregard for my emotions.

                        I won't choose work or husband or house over my animals again. Just won't happen. I AM an adult now, and I understand the consequences of my actions. I can live without those things. I won't live without my animals again.

                        I would want my daughter to make this decision for herself. I would want to sit down with her and discuss the finances and all the issues and work through all the scenarios. I would have her talk with me about all the consequences she sees, short and long, and I would fill in the holes where I could.

                        I wouldn't want my daughter to just whine that I should give in and take care of her horse. But I sure would be willing to work with her to come to a decision that worked for everybody.

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                        • #72
                          Thanks, Levi

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                          • #73
                            My heart was really warmed by those of you who believed that the OP should keep the horse for her daughter. Going into the military is scary, she doesn't need something else to agonize over. I'm another one of those who would have dropped out of school to work and keep my horse instead of going to college if my parents forced the issue. Thankfully my mother supports him, though begrudgingly. She does not understand the emotion and responsibility I feel for him. Now that I'm in my third year of college I'm developing a contingency plan because obviously my mother cannot support me forever. I'm only comfortable doing that now because I have met someone who I could entrust my horse to with a clear conscious. Please if at all possible let your daughter part with her horse on her own terms and allow her the time until she can be at peace with the decision.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by DutchOwner:
                              Ok...here's my two cents, and understand some background: my family is very supportive of eachother, and have frequently assisted eachother no matter the stage of life we were in.


                              Bottom line: She doesn't sound like a selfish girl; it doesn't sound like she needs this "life lesson." It sounds like she is trying to make her way in the world. She's not even asking you to front tuition (generally much more than the cost of an extra pasture horse). It's not going to hurt the horse that much to just hang out and be a pasture-pet. If it works out that a 4-Her or Pony Clubber can come give some attention, great. But, if not I think that the feelings of your daughter should take precedence.
                              I'm with you. Same kind of family and same kind of understanding about valuing and honoring what matters to those you love.
                              "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
                              **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Sabina:
                                Every winter during the rainy season my horses go on a temporary layoff. With the mentality of the original poster, it would therefore make the most sense to just sell them to Arizonans instead of shelve them until spring, and then start over and buy another if I were still interested. Sheesh.

                                And then there's all the older, retired horses who suddenly get un-retired and recycled back into beginner's horses some day. Or the horse that somehow recovers from illness or injury that seemed career ending, because his human waited for him.
                                Nice post, Sabina.
                                "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
                                **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Traveler - I did indicate in my post that if the OP can somehow keep the horse, that would be preferable, but I still stick by my guns. Life is hard and unfortunately we can't always have everything that we want. Was I heartbroken when I had to sell my horse? Yes. Do I still think about him and hope to win the lottery so that I can somehow buy him back? Yes. But I'm a realist....if the OP's daughter doesn't want a leaser/part boarder to help out, and doesn't want to sell him, perhaps she is being a teensy bit selfish by wanting her mother to pay and physically take care of him. Regardless, I'm sure the OP doesn't WANT to upset her daughter (hence making this thread) by selling the horse but obviously she feels as though she cannot keep it for whatever reason, otherwise this would not be an issue.

                                  So, OP: If you need to sell the horse for whatever reason (time/money etc), do it. Will your daughter be upset? Yes. Will she live to see another day? Yes. Should you keep the horse if you have the means? Sure. But life is tough and although I'm sure everyone wants to baby their kids and make them as happy as they can, sometimes that isn't possible.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    If the horse is a calm boy, would a therapeutic riding organization take him until she returns? Perhaps if she knew he, like she, was doing a service to the community, she would be comfortable with him being away from home in her absence. A young gelding might also be accepted into your local Mounted Police- they probably would not give him back when she comes home, though. There are options besides selling a horse.

                                    Again, I think the OP should keep him if it is not an enormous hardship. Her daughter seems to be mature enough to fully understand that there are sacrifices made by every member of the armed services. She has already accepted sacrificing many things such as going immediately to college, living with her family or friends, having the freedom to choose what she does with her days, and being free from the fear of death in everyday life. If the mother can keep one horse of four for her and keeping that horse would neither break the bank account nor destroy the horse's health or sanity, the horse should be kept and a temporary rider should be found if he requires exercise.

                                    I agree that the sister at home should be enlisted in the care of the military sister's horse. Families function as a unit, and a family member in a stressful and dangerous occupation such as the military requires the support of the entire family unit. If the daughter makes a sacrifice in order to serve her country, then those at home should certainly be willing to sacrifice a few hours and a bit of hay to keep her morale up.
                                    "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Gandhi

                                    -my gelding is a ho clique-

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      I'm falling into the "sell the horse" camp. When I left for college, I sold the QH gelding that had been my 4-H Project- I worked hard to make sure he went to a wonderful, loving home, and yes, it was difficult.

                                      It was my first real lesson in the grownup world, and really set the expectation that as an adult, I now had to be accountable and responsible for all of the stuff that was mine. Was I angry at my parents for refusing to keep him? You bet, especially since they had other horses at home. My mom did not have time to ride yet another horse, and my father pointed out to me how unfair it was to leave a nice animal idle when the opportunity to place him in a good home for decent $$$$ existed. However, this made me realize that at some point, I really, truly, had to be accountable for providing for myself. This is one of the things that inspired me to get a good education and a great job, because I did not ever want to be placed in the position again where someone else would be calling the shots for me in this type of situation. I learned that it is much easier to count on myself to provide life's luxuries, and the things that I enjoy rather than feeling entitled or relying on others to do this. Don't be afraid to turn away from a life lesson just because its difficult, or because it might make someone upset- this is an important one.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by Blondie22:
                                        But I'm a realist....if the OP's daughter doesn't want a leaser/part boarder to help out, and doesn't want to sell him, perhaps she is being a teensy bit selfish by wanting her mother to pay and physically take care of him. Regardless, I'm sure the OP doesn't WANT to upset her daughter (hence making this thread) by selling the horse but obviously she feels as though she cannot keep it for whatever reason, otherwise this would not be an issue.

                                        So, OP: If you need to sell the horse for whatever reason (time/money etc), do it. Will your daughter be upset? Yes. Will she live to see another day? Yes.
                                        Selfish? She's going to fight for our country! And yes, I hope every military person lives to see another day.
                                        "Dogs are man's best friend. Cats are man's adorable little serial killer." -- theoatmeal.com

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                                        • #80
                                          Well no one is forcing her to do that! That is her CHOICE and one that is VERY admirable, but it is not mandatory.

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