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upset daughter -- need advice!

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  • #41
    She's also done a super job with not only this horse, but also in helping with mine, her sister, brother, and step-dad's horses
    You have 4 horses - 4! - in addition to hers and keeping hers on the farm is a problem because???

    Your daughter will be starting a career and should be able to at least cover the costs of the "groceries" that you mentioned.

    Still having trouble understanding your issue...right now, given your description:

    ...quite honestly ol' Mom doesn't need or want a horse around who will just be sitting (and eating groceries) for however long until she finds a place to keep him close to where she ends up being stationed
    this sounds more about you, than about what's best for your daughter, her horse, or her ability to contribute to his upkeeping.
    Treat Jockey for Spellbound and Smidgeon

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by jetsmom:
      Belladonna- I was responding to Lizthe Nag's post warning her about it on pg 1.
      Ahh, okay. I'm been known for missing key elements of a post before so I was just checking...

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by M.K.Smith:
        Wow... if I were in your shoes...
        We're not and only you know your financial capabilities...but realize that this decision is about your relationship with your daughter as much as it is about the horse.

        Perhaps you could look to the Simpson family for help in your decision. Remember when Homer wanted Lisa to love her so he bought her a pony?

        If not, see here:

        http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movie...ml?v_id=229042

        Maybe keep the horse (and get a grave-yard shift at the Kwik-ee with Abu and Homer to help finance it ) and wait until your daughter comes to you and says your health is more important than the horse.

        If she doesn't, well...there's your mother-daughter relationship. At least you've learned how to make a "Slurpie" in the meantime.

        Comment


        • #44
          Why do I get the impression that you were looking to others for permission to get rid of the horse?

          Comment


          • #45
            I'm with the few that don't understand why it is so absolutely necessary that you keep daughter's horse.

            We send kids off to college every year, and I'd venture that more than half had to sell their horse when doing so. Nobody reasons that they should keep the horse because the child is making such a life-altering change, and needs some stability, or that a horse isn't very expensive so the parents should just maintain it while the kid goes to school. Horses don't just sit in the field - they get sick, lame, and age. They need regular upkeep, and regular handling. Time and money contributed on Mom's part purely because daughter can't let go of the horse.

            When it is necessary to sell a horse because the kid goes off to school, it is not considered bad parenting or ruining the parent-child relationship forever. But when the child is making a choice to go to 'school' (military), won't be coming home for summers to ride the horse, and quite likely will be moving around for the next few years, it is bad parenting and detrimental to the relationship that the parent keep the horse rather than "FORCE" the girl to sell it.


            I'm 18 (soon to be 19). I do not understand parents who pay for (and people who think that it is something they MUST do) their child's expenses, especially recreational ones, past adulthood. If I was going off to the military, I'd sell my horse or put him into a long-term lease. No bones about it. AND, I wouldn't ask my mom to foot the bill for up to 4 years while I was gone. It is necessary - if you are old enough to make the decision to go to the military, you in turn should also be old enough to understand that it is not mom's responsibility to pay your bills anymore. If she OFFERS, you're allowed to accept - but EXPECTING it? If you want to be an adult.... you have to be one all the time.


            I'm sorry if this offends anyone or sounds harsh, but I think it is unreasonable for the daughter to expect mom to keep and pay for HER horse for an unlimited amount of time.

            Comment


            • #46
              It seems to me that if it is really an unreasonable hardship to keep the horse for her, and if she has the opportunity to rise through the ranks and become a top linguist (likely leading to a high paying job upon the completion of her service), you could ask her to consider your care of her horse while she's away a loan, and that she can pay you back either monetarily or by providing some sort of a service to you once she returns to the country.

              Of course, I don't entirely understand why she won't lease him out- maybe COTH's giveaways forum could find her an excellent person to free lease him. Where I live, men and women in the military (we have Ft. Carson) often need to find temporary homes for their animals while they are stationed abroad. Many people jump up to the plate and care for these animals as a way of showing their gratitude for others' service. I know a horse is very different from a dog or a sugar glider, but isn't it possible that perhaps a rider with experience like her own and similar views on training would be just right to take care of her horse while she is away? Maybe she could even come back to a BETTER (gasp!) horse than she left, depending on the temporary rider's capabilities. I don't think it would be unfair of you to ask her to consider this as a way for her horse to get adequate attention and exercise while she is gone.

              If you just don't want him sitting around, but the care is not a great financial hardship in and of itself, you should discuss finding a horseless rider nearby to exercise him while she's away. Maybe a volunteer with a local rescue is looking for a riding fix; maybe a nearby lesson barn has a top student who could use more riding time; maybe there's a COTHer out there for him!

              Don't insist that she sell the horse- that's a big burden to place on someone embarking upon the greatest challenge of their life thus far.
              "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Gandhi

              -my gelding is a ho clique-

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Coreene:
                Why do I get the impression that you were looking to others for permission to get rid of the horse?
                That's the feeling I got too. It sounds as though she's a nice girl who's been very helpful to you. What's the harm in keeping the horse for her while she's away.

                I get the feeling you think she won't go as far in her career and her riding if she hangs onto this horse...but that could backfire. She may feel the need to stay close by and with the horse so that she knows nothing is going to happen to him. If you can manage it, she will be a lot happier (and more focused, re-assured etc.) if she knows the horse is safe and sound at home.

                She sounds like a nice kid, and I think that if you can swing it, you should hang on to the horse for her. The horse doesn't sound like he's going to be done any injustice or harm just hanging out, and if she pays for him it shouldn't have too much impact on you if you are already caring for other horses.

                JMHO.

                My parents have kept my horse for me (he's boarded but they pay the bills) for the past 4 years while I've been in University (and I have 2 more to go). Finicially it doesn't burden them, and because he's boarded they don't have to do anything. I've had him since he was 4 and I'll hopefully have him until he's 54 It's a huge load off my mind knowing that I don't have to sell him and that I know he's taken care of. If I ever did have to sell him I'd probably get sued for harassing his new owner
                I love bald eagles..not because they have white heads...because they're delicious

                Comment


                • #48
                  welll.........

                  I think there are a lot of issues here.

                  First, you. What CAN you do - in terms of time, money and other resources - with this horse? Can you keep it at home? Pay to board it without that affecting your life hugely? Do self care? Do you have ohter horses?

                  Next...what do you WANT to do at this stage in your life? Your daughter is leaving home - you don't say if you have other children or if this signals a time when you, too, may make life changes. If your time or plans will also be changing signifcantly right now, that's a factor.

                  I think you and your daughter need to have an adult conversation about resources, desires and expectations. Perhaps you can agree to help her find a lease situation where you'll check in occassionally (or perhaps she has an area friend who will do so). Perhaps you can keep the horse at home but have a lessee who will come to care for it.

                  Horses ARE a lot more of an issue than a cat or dog. Not knowing you, your family or your situation there is no way to promote any one solution. But do realize that, if at all possible, it would most likely be best for your relationship to arrive at a solution together that most respects both of your needs and wishes. Good luck.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    maj's mom, i was not gonna bring this up, but after reading more of the posts, I decided to do it. This is my second post to you.
                    I want to tell you the short version of a long story about what happened to me

                    When i was about 12 years old my parents bought me a pony at a sale, They were clueless and ended up buying me a pony that was a bucker. Well after a lot of searching they found a horse trader and they traded this pony for another pony. This pony was a sweety, not real cute but none the less a real sweety. I loved this pony, I would get up early before school and take care of and ride this pony. He was the greatest pony in the world.

                    One day when I came home from school he was standing tied to a tree all tacked up, I thought my dad was doing me a favor and just was being nice and had him ready for me to ride. Well that was not it he was tied to the tree and tacked up cause he had sold him, and was waiting for the guy who bought my pony to drop off one of his boys to ride him home. I felt like my whole world fell apart right then and there, talk about crushed. I felt like I lost my life that day.

                    I had no idea this was comming, He was the kind of pony that all parents would have wanted for their kids to have. All my Dad had to say to me Shut up and get over it, My mom was crying cause she had no say in the matter. Well I never really did get over it, It stuck with me for years and when I grew up and got married that was when I got my first horse.

                    Well back in 93 my Dad was in the hopital on his death bed and he did say he was very sorry for all the things he had done to me. Now I know I was a very young girl back when this happened and your situation is different, but it is still dealing with ones emotions when we love our animals be it a horse or any animal it is just not right to play with those kind of emotions, cause it does really hurt and can stay with you for a long long time. Please keep her gelding until she can make her own decision to part with him......Donna

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Heinz 57 - well put! and good input from someone who is probably around the same age.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        My first question is
                        WHY didn't she figure this out BEFORE she enlisted?

                        I would suggest that SHE arrange to find someone who will lease the horse (ride it, pay its expenses) while it stays at your farm. That way she will still have control of what eventually happes to it, you will have oversight of how it is treated now, its expenses will be paid, and it won't be a pasture ornament.

                        Sounds like a win-win situation to me. She has a year. If it is important to her, I ams sure she can find someone in a year.
                        Janet

                        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #52
                          Guys, believe it or not, I'm not an ogre!
                          I don't own the farm; I lease it -- and nobody else can or will take over Sam when she leaves. My husband can't do much other than feed and brush him -- he's too big for the horse; my son's too young; I can't really do the horse any justice as I'm busy enough as it is; and her sister isn't amenable to helping me out with him as she only wants to spend time with her horse no matter how displeased I become with her about this -- her biological dad's very encouraging of this behavior too, as little sis is his clear favorite and he has clearly stated that she shouldn't have to do anything for her sister (trying to keep my patience in check with with this situation! ). The youngest girl's a good kid, but with Daddy adamantly stating that sort of thing -- well it makes for a bad influence imo. Maybe I should let you guys have at her/him, huh? Perhaps kid sis will come around and be a little less unreasonable on this matter in the months to come, but I can't promise my older daughter this. And I've always tried to enforce the rule that it isn't fair to just keep an animal around, not paid any true attention to, just because it's what you want. He's a horse, not an object, and deserves something more than just to be "shelved". Besides, you all should know something as to the nature of this horse -- he's horrible in a group, a complete wimp, who, since we got him and started working with him can't stand to not have his routine daily interaction with people not happen -- positively wilts. It's not pretty when he's gotten sick or hurt and doesn't get messed with as much -- turns into a nervous little shadow and gets pushed around by every horse we've got (probably has something to do with how he was "not" raised). He really is the type that needs "his person". It makes for a great little riding horse (always happy to go to work) but time off is no friend to Sam; it's almost as though he needs the attention in order to keep some level of confidence. That's why I've been trying to push the idea of letting one of the 4-Hers lease him for a while -- it certainly seems the best alternative to me (believe me selling him is the final option and it will have to be her decision ultimately), but she's completely worried that her horse won't get taken care of (and yes, who wants their horse messed with without personal supervision?) -- hence my quandary.
                          And no, I don't believe this epitomizes a "disposable society" -- we got the horse because he was deemed "disposable"; the only reason this problem has come up is due to not wanting to see him "shelved"!

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            If you can afford (time/money) to keep the horse for her it would be a lovely gesture and I'm sure she'll appreciate it.

                            On the other hand, if you can't, I don't agree with the posters that say it will ruin your relationship. I had a horse that lived with my parents and me when I was in high school, contributed to his costs, did all the work myself. When it was time to go to college there was no way they could keep him--financially, time-wise, knowledge-wise.

                            Of course I was devastated, I really loved the horse (his name was my handle). But I didn't hate my parents or anything. I knew they wouldn't know what to do with a horse, that they were already helping me with college.

                            And it all turned out ok. The horse was sold to a very sweet boy, who later gave him to sister, who sold him to a family friend. And I went to school without horse expenses, graduated, got a good job and a new horse, now have a better job and 3 horses.

                            Point being, if you can keep the horse I'm sure she will appreciate it, but if you can't I don't think you are obligated at all, and I don't think it will ruin your relationship.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              First off, congratulations on raising what sounds like a mature, responsible, wonderful girl.

                              Maybe you both can take a step back and approach this as two adults working together to do what is best for the gelding. If you are in a situation to keep him at home and it doesn't cause undue hardship, I don't think the cost of his upkeep should even enter the discussion. Don't make money a bigger priority than your daughter's happiness, peace of mind and trust in her mom. Hopefully you can find a good lease situation that you are both comfortable with before she leaves. If not, and the gelding just sits around for a few years, maybe that is just his job for this period of his life. There are plenty of horses in worse situations.

                              I'm sorry, but I must disagree with those who say going into the AF is no different from going off to college. The son of a family friend was killed just a few days before his 3rd tour of duty in Iraq was ending and he was coming home. I would support your daughter in any way I could and be very proud of her.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                I agree with not keeping the horse. Sorry, but she is going to school/military whatever and that is not conducive to affording the $$ nor time to care for a horse. She needs the $$ to fund her further education after military. Parents are not obliged to pay the expenses of grown children, especially for something that you have to admit is a luxury. It is not as if you are not paying for food, or medical care (etc)for her.

                                I dearly loved my little QH gelding before I went to school, but sadly faced the reality that the $$ and time were not there. I sold him for a small amount to a good home, and he was still making someone happy years later. When I finally got a real job and $$, I re-entered the horse world.

                                I do not agree that it will ruin your relationship- if it does then she has a lot of maturing to do.

                                Also, for the poster who's dad sold her pony- it is sad but life and expenses and ability to have animals get in the way- children cannot always have everything no matter how much they love their pets. We had a lamb for Easter for a few weeks when I was 5, I loved that little thing as if it were a pony. On easter, my greatgrandparents served it for dinner(I did not eat it) not nice, fairly harsh, but no worse than any farm or 4-H kid has gone through many times.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #56
                                  Thanks for the posting about the Lackland stables -- it may be a way to go for her; I dont' know. Time will tell.
                                  And thanks for that last post -- as I stated not trying to be an ogre to my kid, but there are some eventualities that need to be taken into consideration. No, going to the military isn't the same as going off to college, especially now. And quite frankly I can't swing college and keeping any of the horses. Her sister will be going off to either the military or college in 3 years, and that has to come before the horses for both of them.
                                  Thanks for the info. for the AF; if she has any trouble with harassment it's good to know there's help of some kind out there. I think she's pretty much got a good head on her shoulders and can handle that sort of thing (her step-dad's was an Army Ranger and just got back from Iraq, and I'm USMC all the way, so we've tried to not hide the truth from her about military life and its sometimes harsh realities).
                                  Belive me, I don't want it to come to selling her horse (and for those who think I'd heartlessly cart ANY horse off to an auction -- shame on you, that was insulting!), but I do need some advice as to the best way to get her to realize that sometimes we can't keep hold of things, that things can change, sometimes not the way we want them to. And I'm having a heck of a time getting through to her with this right now. I don't feel right just sending her on her merry way, with the presumption that nothing's going to change while she's gone, when indeed it could, and that she needn't have a care for what the future holds. Just doing it in a way that doesn't upset her is a problem right now.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    I meant reply by mkw, about life in military not same as college. Thanks to you too mickeyd. and I'm sorry about the lamb which must have been harsh at the time.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I don't think that you should feel obligated to keep the horse for her at all! If you can find the means (time/money) to do so, great! If not, that's life.

                                      When I went to University 4 years ago, my parents gave me the ultimatum...sell my horse and move away to school or keep him and go to school locally. It wasn't the fact that they couldn't afford to pay for him, because they could, but rather that I wouldn't have time for him and his talents would be going to waste. Why would they pay to keep a horse, just because I loved him, who was never going to get any attention. I never thought this arrangement was unfair, as I chose to go to school a few hours away, and I NEVER resented my parents for making me sell him. I know that my mom loved my horse as much as I did and we both wanted the best home possible for him (which he got in lovely VA!). But it was important for me to move away and be on my own (which I have never regretted).

                                      If your daughter refuses to go to the AF because of the horse, then that's her decision and she's going to suffer the consequences (maybe not a great job etc). She is at least 18, so she is old enough to make these decisions herself. If you can and want to keep the horse, you're great but I definitely don't think that you are OBLIGATED in any way or that your relationship with her will suffer. She is old enough to realize that horses cost money and take up time and since it's her choice to move away (albeit a good one, perhaps), she has to suck it up and lease/sell her horse. You can't have everything in life and this is a perfect example of that.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Okay I have read all this I think I have got it. First off st find someone in the Air Force who is not associated with the recruiting office to talk to you about benefits and the realities of military life. From what I gather you daughter is not in college at this time and does not have a four year degree. So who ever told you she could "rise very high in the ranks working in linguistics" was lying. Without a 4 year college degree she will be enlisted she can move up in the enlisted ranks but she can not become a commisioned officer without a 4 year college degree. Is she applying to the academy or Air Force ROTC? That would be a much better route. If you have the brains to go to college enlisted life can be very frustrating.

                                        With an ROTC scholarship, school is paid for and when she gets out she will be an officer and in management. As an officer she has alot more control over her fate. When she gets out she will have experience that translates into the middle and upper executive levels in civilian companies or as a Civilian working for the government.

                                        As an officer she would be more likely to have the funds and the control over her schedule to ride.

                                        There is one thing to remember when talking to either a recruiter or a detalier in the military. As we said in the Navy It is very easy to tell when they are lying, their lips are moving. A recruiter like any salesman has a quota to meet his promotions etc are dependant on meeting that quota.

                                        As far as keeping the horse if there was anyway you could I would reccomend it if you could. If nothing else later in life you might need her assitance with something and it is to your own benefit to you for her to have an example of how to help someone out even if it is an inconvenience.
                                        "I am sorry, I lead a bit of a complex life, things don't always happen in the right order" The Doctor

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I'm going to approach this from the standpoint of one who was the "daughter". In my case, I was actually the wife, but the situatio was similar. I had a horse that I had since I was 14. I had "rescued" her from an abusive (not intentionally, but thru ignorance) owner. We had been to hell and back and become quite a team, competeing quite successfully on a state and national level in 4-H, open and breed shows. Then I got married and had two kids in quick succession, putting the horse on the "back burner" for several years. Sure, she was at that time pretty much a very expensive pet, but I loved her with all my heart and planned on keeping her forever. Then my husband got transferred thru his job to another state. We didn't have much time to find property and couldn't find one that would allow us to keep my horse at home. Boarding seemed an unreasonable expense, given that I had two children already and we wanted more. And she was, after all, just a pet. I fought tooth and nail at first, but finally Dave wore me down and convinced me that I should sell her. So I did. I found her a great home with a little girl to love her and an agreement that if they ever decided that they didn't want her anymore, I had first dibs on buying her back. Fast forward about three years. I am pregnant with our third child and Dave just found out that the company he had worked for for 16 years was downsizing and he was out of a job. At the same time, literally within days of receiving this news, I get a phone call. The little girl has lost interest in horses and Moonie is for sale. Do I want to buy her back? I couldn't. And to this day, nearly 20 years later, I blame Dave for making me sell her in the first place. I know it's stupid and that noone could have foreseen the troubles that we had, but I also know if we had kept her, somehow we would have managed to care for her the way she deserved. Years later, after we got back on our feet and I was back into training and teaching full-time, I did search for her, but the new owners had sold her without papers and didn't even know the name of the folks who bought her as they paid cash. The search was futile and the best I can do is pray that she had good care and a dignified end. I guess what I am trying to say in a long, round-about way is that I hate blaming Dave for losing my best friend, but I can't help it. I DO blame him, no matter how hard I try not to. I would not want to see your daughter blaming you for losing her best friend. If there is any way that you can keep this horse for her for a few years, do it.

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