ACK! BO raised rates for my lesson kids

[julanleb]

I think many here are objecting based on what they pay on their private horse.

Maybe others were, but the rates I mentioned were on school horses provided BY the school. A lot of beginner lessons take place on schoolies, with ownership coming with more experience (I know that this is obviously not always the case, but I would say a good chunk is.)

[findeight]

Ok, around here gymnastics are about $60 an hour with 3 to a group..
Serious Figure skating is $50 an hour PLUS a split on the ice time.
Golf is $35 for 30 minutes with a pro plus equipment rental and any green fees if you go out on the course.
Tennis is a flat $50 including equipment and pro instruction.

So where is $50 for an hour at somebody else's facility on somebody else's horse excessive?

[Ride'emCO]

If students don't pay (even if they miss the lesson) the entire ($50 now) is deducted from MY pay until I give a makeup lesson (at my expense & time - not normal lesson times)

That's completely unreasonable! Are you kidding?!?

[Groom&Taxi]

My daughter started with a SLINT (Small Locally Infamous Name Trainer) with lessons on trainer's horses at $20 per lesson. The horses were ok quality for lessons, number of riders varied and usually included one or more of trainer's kids. One of the boarders was also likely to be tooling around the ring and trying to chat with trainer. So - overall the lessons were not high quality BUT I recognized them as a fairly affordable way to get my daughter a lot of saddle time and horse experiences. Trainer went up to $25 per lesson this year, but we have moved on for a variety of reasons mostly related to the trainer being Locally Infamous

New trainier is $35 for semi-private lesson on one of the horses at the facility, less on your own horse hauled in, less on your horse boarded at the facility. She is also a junior trainer at a different but very well respected local hunter jumper facility, and the quality so far has been wonderful (especially in comparison).

I think lesson pricing says a lot about what niche the barn/trainer is seeking to fill in the local scene - I don't think most parents of lesson kids are initially savvy enough to appreciate the distinctions in instruction quality, suitability of lesson horses, or see much beyond the glitz level of the facility.

G&T

[Susan P]

IN CT and NJ you can expect to pay $25-$35 for a group 1 hour beginner lesson. Group is 3+ people.

This sounds like what I would expect except that a large lesson may be more like 6-12 at the most. 3 would be a very small group and of course 2 is a semi private

[Phaxxton]

Geeze, I'm in an extremely expensive area of the country (especially to keep horses, since land is at an absolute premium) and $50 for a group lesson is high around here -- and I'm talking about lessons on school horses. I'd say the average is $50-60 for an hour private and about $35 for an hour semi-private. The really BNTs can go up to about $80-85, and that's just about always on your own horse, not a school horse.

I think $50 is excessive -- and if there is a mass exodus of students, then the market for lessons in the OP's area seems to concur.

[Slewdledo]

$50 is what people pay here for a private lesson ($45 if it's your own horse). $40 for semi-private ($35 for own horse) and it's $25-30 for a group lesson with a school horse.

$50 is crazy. When I was younger, I was "horse-mad" but my parents could never afford lessons for me. I have had a total of two lessons in my life. I work on a farm and have a mare I ride on occasion, so I have taught myself. Most/all people interested in horses aren't able to do that, so they don't "do" horses at all. It's a shame.

[Ambishahn]

i charge 25$ an hour for private lessons and 20$ for semi-private, one my horse or theirs- i remember when i was coming up through the ranks and was paying for everything myself, and when i was doing my instructor training i decided that i want regular people to be able to afford the chance

[Freebird!]

Lessons aren't the only thing going up there. My leasee - who boards there - contacted me not to long ago, wanting to know of other farms in the area that were less $$, because their BO keeps raising the board bill.

[Jsalem]

To be honest, I don't know how barns can justify keeping a lesson string. The horses aren't free! They have to be purchased, fed, cared for, shod, and maintained. Think about it: how much do you figure those horses cost the farm to keep?

Let's see: My board is $695. Add insurance, routine vet care, glucosamine, shoes and I imagine my schoolies that live inside cost me $850 a month (and that's without their purchase price and without unforseen vet costs). How many times a week are they used? 6 times a week? (that schoolie costs $35 a lesson to use) 12 times a week? (schoolie costs $18) Lump them all together and factor in that one of them is always missing a shoe. Factor in cancellations. Oh, and I forgot. Factor in that the barn needs to make a profit.

So what's a barn to do? Some of mine live out. That dosen't mean they cost me the price of feed- there's still all that overhead to pay for. Some barns work the schoolies to death or cheap out on their care. I know that where the OP works, there is no pasture- so all their schoolies live in.

I sympathize with those that want to ride cheaply, but really, horses are expensive and normal businesses aren't there to provide a public service. If the public wants to ride cheaply, I suggest they drive way out into the country where cheaply trained horses live out in grass pastures for $500 an acre and take that lesson in a flat part of that 500/acre pasture, jumping over 2 x 4's on cinder blocks - no covered arena with groomed footing in the city! Because that's where OP works- barn in a very convenient area, covered arena, nice jumps, I assume nice horses, nice tack, big staff.

Far be it for me to scream that they are cheating their customers- I don't know what their expenses are.

[Just My Style]

JSalem- I totally see where you are coming from. The problem is that trainers like yourself will eventually not have any clients, because we are discouraging "new blood" in to the industry. Kids will never learn if they love horses or not, if they aren't able to explore them on a lower, more basic level.

Frankly, I don't know what the answer is. All I know is that I was able to take beginner private lessons from my next door neighbor in NJ for $10 an hour. After a year of that (and becoming horse obsessed) she suggested that I move on to a "real barn". I did. Not only did they have a top A program, but they had two paddocks full of schoolies for every level rider. We had Gem Twist, a dozen AHSA ranked horses and ponies and we could take lessons on school horses. I guess those were the good old days.

[Phaxxton]

My point was merely that there are obviously market forces at play here. Sure, charge whatever you want for lessons. I used to charge $50/hour for private lessons and $35/hour for semi-private (2 people) on their own horses. The market here could absorb that. However, if raising your prices causes you to lose a large percentage of your lesson clients, then you're losing more money. You have to look at the overall picture. If you raise lesson prices 20% and 25% of your clients leave, you're making less money than you were to begin with. I agree that the horse business is no way to get rich and that likely the BOs aren't trying to cheat anyone... but you have to work with what the market can absorb.

I also never had a barn or trainer give me a discount for riding my own horse (or charge others more for riding a schoolie).

[Jsalem]

I agree, JustMyStyle. One big difference now, I believe, is the way we are raising our children today. Today's parents want convenience (no driving out to the country- they're too busy). They want high end facilities (no mud in the mercedes). You'd better cover your behind, because they will sue in a heartbeat if your horses aren't "safe," your tack isn't "safe," etc. (Remember when we used to fall off that rotten, cheap school pony every week when we were young?) Your facility needs to be expensive- you must have nice fencing around your arena, good footing, heck, you'd better have "good footing" in your lounge and tack room, so someone dosen't trip.

Today's parents DEMAND a level of the business that is expensive to offer. And then they scream bloody murder at the cost.

Ever stop to think what a private horse costs per ride? That same $850 for a private horse is probably more because he wears better shoes and gets supplements and adequan. Ride 5 times a week and your costs are 40 to 45 per ride! And that dosen't buy the horse!

The solution to many is to keep their horses at home and do the work themselves. I applaud them. But we all know that it requires a huge commitment and lifestyle change to do that. Frankly, most people aren't willing to do that and must board their horses. I'm sorry, but there is a choice. Those customers that want convenience and quality have to pay for it.

[Phaxxton]

I agree, JustMyStyle. One big difference now, I believe, is the way we are raising our children today. Today's parents want convenience (no driving out to the country- they're too busy). They want high end facilities (no mud in the mercedes). You'd better cover your behind, because they will sue in a heartbeat if your horses aren't "safe," your tack isn't "safe," etc. (Remember when we used to fall off that rotten, cheap school pony every week when we were young?) Your facility needs to be expensive- you must have nice fencing around your arena, good footing, heck, you'd better have "good footing" in your lounge and tack room, so someone dosen't trip.

Today's parents DEMAND a level of the business that is expensive to offer. And then they scream bloody murder at the cost.

Very well said... and very unfortunate as well!

[Jsalem]

Having said all that- raising the rates that much in one fell swoop probably wasn't smart. (Perhaps they did it because their closest competitor's farm just got sold.)

There are a lot of ways to go about raising your income- change your policies regarding cancellations, go to a semester system, etc.

Perhaps this business is just weary and dosen't care if they lose a chunk of their clientele.

[Just My Style]

JSalem- I do totally agree with you. I just think it is sad. And yes, the first pony I ever rode (an evil black Shetland named, appropriately "Black Beauty") used to dump me and then try and run me over. I learned how to hit the ground, bounce up and run. AND my parents never thought about suing them. They actually thought it was funny.

The solution to many is to keep their horses at home and do the work themselves.

I guess that is why we just bought 5 acres and I am in the process of getting barn quotes.

Oh well. I wish I had some type of brilliant solution. I think it will take greater minds than mine.

[ESG]

Originally posted by julanleb:
Seahorse - this whole thing screams get out to me. It sounds like you are being taken adavantage of, and I don't care if you teach beginners or the friggin' BNT's themselves, you deserve better!

Ditto. You only get $10/student, but get the entire $50 deducted from YOUR money if THEY miss a lesson, until YOU make it up? I don't think so. Get out of there, quickly. This BO is doing you no favors at all.

That said, I can't criticize the barn owner. Costs have skyrocketed here in just the past few months. Also, as Jsalem said, we have no way of knowing what the BO's costs are, or how much of a loss he/she's been absorbing. Sometimes, one looks at the bottom line, and says, "Oh, crap - I can't afford to charge this any longer", and up go the rates. I know - I'm about to raise my board and trailering rates, although nowhere close to 20%, and lesson and training fees will remain the same. Hay's gone up almost 50% in the last two months alone, and don't EVEN get me started on the price of diesel fuel.

[Dakotawyatt]

I used to teach for a hugely crappy guy with terrible money management practices. It was good when I first started, because there were maybe 6 horses on the 3 acres, and there was NO barn. Yup, no barn. I pulled the horses out of the pasture, hooked them to the poles outside, and ran my Sat. lessons.

Problems happened when he built a barn, added about 8 additional horses (2 of them PERCHERONS ... you can't take a lesson on a carriage trained Percheron!!) and upped lessons by $10 a month. Then it was another $10 a month. He tried to get in new clients by offering a "buy 3 get one free" deal, and expecting ME to teach that free lesson for free. Ummm ... NO! Anyway, when he told me he was going to lose the farm if he didn't do SOMETHING, and told me my cut of $15 per kid was going down to $10 per kid, I LEFT.

And don't let JSalem fool you; her lessons are VERY reasonable. I started teaching for her a year and a half ago, and the lessons were $40 per lesson. I gradually built up my program from 4 students to 20 students, and recently there was a single increase to $45 per lesson. I didn't lose ONE client because of it. They ALL understood that the farrier, hay, shavings, feed, etc. was going up. The fee increase was within reasonable boundaries. Where I taught before, the $40 per lesson they charge now is absolutely NOT worth it. You're getting royally shafted by paying that. And the sad fact is, they'll probably go up to about $60 per lesson in the next 2 years or so because of bad management. My lessons will probably still be $45 because of GOOD management. Anyway, just had to say something ...

The dramatic increase could have more to do with poor money management rather than trying to get you out. The whole deducting money from YOUR check totally smacks of my former "boss". He would have done that too if he'd been smart enough to think of it.

[Trakehner]

Friends have sons who play Hockey...3:45 AM they're out at the rink because this is the time they can reserve for the younger kids...expensive rink/equipment and coaching...they don't complain.

Friends have daughters who compete in figure skating...outfits, coaching, horrid hours to get the rink (fighting the hockey kids I guess), travel to far away events...they don't complain.

Friends have gymnist daughters who compete all over the place, not much in the way of outfits, expensive coaching, scary falls on the beam and off the uveven parralel bars etc....they don't complain.

Friends with kids on travel teams for soccer and basketball...miles of travel, bad attitudes and late games...they don't complain.

Why, with all the support network horses need (they die, they get sick, saddles, shoeing, vet bills, food, bedding, facilities and the instructor costs) and the very high fixed expenses are people whining about $50/hour?

Golf and tennis take no spaces but a safe place to hit a ball into a net or a little court...not high investment (bucket of balls, a pretty business card and a spiffy shirt), and they charge the same rate or more.

Is it that most instructors are women and therefore not worth decent pay? Could be the attitude...

Is it that most of the students are girls and therefore not worth the money? Nope, parents blow lots of money on other girl sports and outfits...

Don't really know why riding professionals just don't have a realistic value on what they have to offer...maybe way too little experience in the business facet of the equestriene world.

The fastest way for a barn to go out of business is to not make their expenses...at $50, it's not too expensive, the "buyers" just don't appreciate what entails the cost...perhaps a handout explaining/comparing costs of what other "kid" lesson/sports cost and how riding is a bargain at the price. Then, get em' hooked and sell em' their own horse as a cost-saving plan (try and keep a straight face while you give em' this data).

[julanleb]

Ok, around here gymnastics are about $60 an hour with 3 to a group..
Serious Figure skating is $50 an hour PLUS a split on the ice time.
Golf is $35 for 30 minutes with a pro plus equipment rental and any green fees if you go out on the course.
Tennis is a flat $50 including equipment and pro instruction.

So where is $50 for an hour at somebody else's facility on somebody else's horse excessive?

It's excessive because other equally skilled instructors and facilities are charging less, and those paying it don't find it at all reasonable. There obviously isn't enough demand for lessons to be able to charge that much in that area. And since when do we decide if something is priced appropriately based on COMPLETELY different sports/activities?