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No place for butchers' little helpers

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  • #41
    I hope that proves to be the case. Out here TB's aren't generally sold directly to the meat man - they go to dealers. So it would be very easy to sidestep this "ban", or even violate it without any intent. I don't really care if he practices what he preaches or not; we're not competing to see who is a candidate for sainthood. It's great he has the resources to care for a herd of retired horses; I'm very happy to know of his good fortune. The rest of the horse owning and training public does not have those resources.

    Perhaps his next step should be providing free or low cost euthanasia and disposal services for the horses at the track he runs. No doubt that would provide a greater service than simply making a "ban". It's not as good a PR move - but it would do more to ensure the animal's welfare is considered.

    Since the TB appears to no longer be a popular choice for a sporthorse, their 2nd careers are becoming more limited. Unfortunately. However, since the slaughter opponents continue to demand euthanasia of unwanted horses instead of slaughter - providing the service would ensure that NO TB's from his track end up in the kill pen.



    Originally posted by FatPalomino View Post
    It encourages trainers and owners to find a place for their racehorse to go before the horse is crippled, and worth only meat money.....

    We've seen way too many horses that are so broke down from running 'just one more race' that they will never ever be a riding horse. It doesn't matter how experienced the new owner is, if the horse is crippled, no amount of training is going to make it a riding horse.

    Richard Fields planted the seed. Let's see if the concept grows (and is enforced).

    Richard Fields has a large ranch in Wyoming, where he retires some racehorses. Certainly isn't just preaching his ideals- he's taking the lead and encouraging others that want to play on his turf to follow.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • #42
      Doesn't the article say too that he's researching how to best develop a farm for exactly that purpose (retraining and rehoming racehorses)? I think this guy is putting his money where his mouth is.

      I agree that most TBs are very different to deal with. One of the things I notice, though, is that if they're properly retrained, once they hit their teens they tend to mellow out significantly. It's not always true of course, but when I compare them to say Arabs, or even a lot of older WBs I've known, I see a significant difference from the way a 10 year old TB behaves and the way a 15 year old does. I think a lot of the older TBs can make an excellent horse for a casual adult amateur, or a kid. I think a lot of people hear the word 'Thoroughbred' and freak out, and either immediately write the horse off or, if they actually get on and ride, are so ready for a crazy bolter that they cause exactly the behavior they're afraid of. I've seen even experienced riders do it.

      I agree that TBs need some better PR. It's just figuring out how that's difficult.

      ETA wow either you guys are really fast, or I took way longer to post this than I thought. Either one is possible.
      exploring the relationship between horse and human

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by FatPalomino View Post
        <----

        The ignore function works really well...
        I consider the ignore function a cop-out.

        I have been tempted a time or two to use it, but I was glad later not to have done so, as the person was either having a few bad moments, or had later other information and insights worth being part of the discussions at hand after all.

        There are not many people in this world we should dismiss that thoroughtly as the ignore function does.

        There are times where using the ignore function seems overkill, like cutting our noses to spite our faces, when we are discussing issues with others we don't agree with.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by greysandbays View Post
          This guy is NOT "trying to do the right thing". He's trying to make OTHER PEOPLE do what HE thinks is "the right thing". If he wanted to ban all trainers who smoked cigarettes or drank booze or cheated on their spouses or engaged in any other behavior he didn't think was "right" he'd have been villified beyond belief.

          Now, if he wants to put a poster on a bulletin board at his track offering to pay fair meat market value for any horse that runs on his track and then prep his purchases for a different career/retire them/whatever the hell he wants to do with them, I'd not have a bad word to say about his idea.
          Technically I will agree with you. He is doing what he thinks is the right thing. But you're implying this is some sort of infringement on the trainers' rights. It is not. Nobody is forcing those trainers to train at that track. If they don't like the rules they can go somewhere else.

          There are rules in every sport. The racetrack is a private establishment. Private establishments have house rules. Businesses impose rules on their employees and patrons. If he wanted to ban smoking, he could do that too.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by CosMonster View Post
            Doesn't the article say too that he's researching how to best develop a farm for exactly that purpose (retraining and rehoming racehorses)? I think this guy is putting his money where his mouth is.

            I agree that most TBs are very different to deal with. One of the things I notice, though, is that if they're properly retrained, once they hit their teens they tend to mellow out significantly. It's not always true of course, but when I compare them to say Arabs, or even a lot of older WBs I've known, I see a significant difference from the way a 10 year old TB behaves and the way a 15 year old does. I think a lot of the older TBs can make an excellent horse for a casual adult amateur, or a kid. I think a lot of people hear the word 'Thoroughbred' and freak out, and either immediately write the horse off or, if they actually get on and ride, are so ready for a crazy bolter that they cause exactly the behavior they're afraid of. I've seen even experienced riders do it.

            I agree that TBs need some better PR. It's just figuring out how that's difficult.

            ETA wow either you guys are really fast, or I took way longer to post this than I thought. Either one is possible.
            Yes, fine and worthwile effort, for each one OTTB he can help.

            BUT, in the greater scheme of things, every OTTB that finds a horse is displacing another horse, that then will become the unwanted one.

            Playing musical chairs is what happens in mature or shrinking markets, as our horse industry is in now.

            Not breeding so much will definitely help.
            I think that breeders are generally getting the idea, looking at registration numbers dropping in all registries and that trend is probably also there in the larger grade breeding group of breeders.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by LarkspurCO View Post
              Technically I will agree with you. He is doing what he thinks is the right thing. But you're implying this is some sort of infringement on the trainers' rights. It is not. Nobody is forcing those trainers to train at that track. If they don't like the rules they can go somewhere else.

              There are rules in every sport. The racetrack is a private establishment. Private establishments have house rules. Businesses impose rules on their employees and patrons. If he wanted to ban smoking, he could do that too.
              What a thought.
              You know, many may just do that, vote with their feet at unwarrranted impositions.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by CosMonster View Post
                Doesn't the article say too that he's researching how to best develop a farm for exactly that purpose (retraining and rehoming racehorses)? I think this guy is putting his money where his mouth is.

                I agree that most TBs are very different to deal with. One of the things I notice, though, is that if they're properly retrained, once they hit their teens they tend to mellow out significantly. It's not always true of course, but when I compare them to say Arabs, or even a lot of older WBs I've known,
                Oh sorry - if that was in there I missed it. My bad. Where I live there are scads of people that take OTTB's and retrain them. But I can well imagine that is not true of the entire country. If that is the case for the area around that track - no doubt such a facility would help.

                The crazy OTTB's I've seen didn't usually come that way. They were made that way by novice owners. I'm not a novice owner, but have realized that I'm just not a good match for a TB (not generally). Though the first horse I ever hunted was a lovely older gentleman TB who carried me safely and sanely. I'll never forget that horse, bless his heart.

                Anyway - I'd much rather the horses were euthanized at the track if a buyer cannot be found (or a rescue/group like CANTER). If people really want horse slaughter to end, something has to take its place. Right now - it's just been outsourced and we're still faced with tens of thousands of horses with no home or job. So - either they need help finding a job - or they need to be put down. The track is the perfect place to do it - no travel or stress, there are vets always on hand, and it can be a regular stop for the renderer.

                Sorry - I'm not a real fan of forcing people to comply with my personal world view, so words like "ban", "regulate", "legislate" tend to really piss me off. It's nice that this guy wants to help horses, we're all horse lovers and can understand. I guess where we diverge is the notion of forcing people into complying with our personal beliefs. I draw the line in a different place than many of you. Banning something and leaving people with no alternatives isn't doing the animals any favors.
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                  Yes, fine and worthwile effort, for each one OTTB he can help.

                  BUT, in the greater scheme of things, every OTTB that finds a horse is displacing another horse, that then will become the unwanted one.

                  Playing musical chairs is what happens in mature or shrinking markets, as our horse industry is in now.

                  Not breeding so much will definitely help.
                  I think that breeders are generally getting the idea, looking at registration numbers dropping in all registries and that trend is probably also there in the larger grade breeding group of breeders.
                  I agree with you there, Bluey, but since the thread is about TBs specifically, my comments were geared towards that. I do think that low-end TB breeders would do well to not turn out so many poor quality horses in the hope of finding the next Secretariat in their backyard pasture. Maybe it's just where I grew up, but I saw some of the worst quality TBs who had probably never been dewormed in their lives and were being run into the ground, and their owners were convinced they were the best thing since sliced bread. Of course, this can be generalized to all breeds.
                  exploring the relationship between horse and human

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by J Swan View Post

                    So while it's nice to just "ban" trainers who send their charges to slaughter - exactly how does this help TB's find homes and careers? I appreciate that this man wants to protect the horses - I'm just not sure his stance actually accomplishes anything. It is a good pr move, but wouldn't y'all like it if energy was put into aggressively marketing this horse as a sporthorse?
                    Yes. I think this makes a lot of sense. And you make some interesting points about TBs falling out of fashion. I guess maybe they're just not expensive enough for some people (some that I know anyway).

                    The WB breeders are selling FOALS for 30K. I can buy a draft cross for 800-1500$ - and I can get a TB off the track even cheaper.
                    That's funny, because I paid exactly $1500 for my draft cross and essentially nothing for my OTTB.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Here's some more &quot;Butcher's Helpers&quot;

                      What about these horses....http://www.agmailusa.com/lowrystar0708/

                      or these: http://www.agmailusa.com/weller0708/

                      or these: http://www.agmailusa.com/hs0708/

                      or these: http://www.agmailusa.com/havard0508/

                      or these: http://www.agmailusa.com/chuckcrago0608/

                      or these: http://www.agmailusa.com/chuckcrago0608/

                      Please tell me how this is helping. I especially would like your thoughts Bluey & County.

                      What do you think will happen here? Does this indicate that registration #'s are going down? Does it indicate that there is an infringement on personal rights to be concerned about this? What, if anything, can be done to "tame" these wild ones who contribute, year in & year out to this problem?

                      I get these e-mails every single day - including cattle sales. And you wonder why the hell we can't get a grip on "unwanted horses".
                      "Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

                      Ponies are cool!

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                        What a thought.
                        You know, many may just do that, vote with their feet at unwarrranted impositions.
                        My hunch is there's just too much money to be made at Suffolk, so they'll learn to live with it.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I don't quite understand your question or your comment that seems to say that they are breeding for slaughter?
                          Maybe those people are selling those horses they raise for big prices, just as someone selling the top yearlings at the best TB sales are?
                          Why would those people breeding the best would want to quit breeding, as long as they have a market and so homes for them?

                          As someone else said, there are way more breeding at the bottom than the few at the top.
                          Other than the sought after, proven bloodlines, maybe many of the ones raising horses there is no market for are the ones giving us most of the horses that go unwanted.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            I don't quite understand your question.
                            Maybe those people are selling those horses they raise for big prices, just as someone selling the top yearlings at the best TB sales are?
                            Why would those people breeding the best would want to quit breeding, as long as they have a market and so homes for them?

                            As someone else said, there are way more breeding at the bottom than the few at the top.
                            Other than the sought after, proven bloodlines, maybe many of the ones raising horses there is no market for are the ones giving us most of the horses that go unwanted.
                            That's it? That's all you are putting on the table?
                            "Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

                            Ponies are cool!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by LarkspurCO View Post
                              Yes. I think this makes a lot of sense. And you make some interesting points about TBs falling out of fashion. I guess maybe they're just not expensive enough for some people (some that I know anyway).



                              That's funny, because I paid exactly $1500 for my draft cross and essentially nothing for my OTTB.
                              Oh yeah - I know exactly what you mean!! And just look at those prices - it should be the other way around if you know what I mean. I got that 30K figure out of a COTH issue that came Friday. I thought it was a typo. The thing has just been weaned. Now - if I was in the market for a horse I could hop on and take hunting (disclaimer - if my fat old butt could manage to hang on to a fresh OTTB!) - it would not be a 30K weanling. Or a cheap tubby draft cross (got two and one turned out to be as wide as he is tall - may not hunt). I'd hang my hat on the TB, thank you very much.

                              I've got a great marketing idea for OTTB's. Spend a few months pouring fat into them until they're tubby; then put a brand on their shoulder or ass and sell them as a WB. I'll make a fortune!

                              Seriously - I'm very supportive of steps the tracks can take to reduce injuries or fatalities, and help ensure the TB's don't go to slaughter. I don't oppose slaughter and never have, but I also think it's fine to find these great horses new careers, punish bad trainers, or do other things to improve the welfare of the horses - and still race them. And I'd also support efforts or programs for euthanasia at tracks. I know it would not be a popular move and AR groups would scream bloody murder so it probably won't happen. But I still think it would be a good idea.
                              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                              -Rudyard Kipling

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by equinelaundry View Post
                                That's it? That's all you are putting on the table?
                                I really don't know where you are trying to go with your comments.

                                If their spam irritates you so much, you have a link at the bottom to unsubscribe.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                                  Now - if I was in the market for a horse I could hop on and take hunting (disclaimer - if my fat old butt could manage to hang on to a fresh OTTB!) - it would not be a 30K weanling. Or a cheap tubby draft cross (got two and one turned out to be as wide as he is tall - may not hunt). I'd hang my hat on the TB, thank you very much.
                                  Me too. The cross (3/4 TB 1/4 perch) is a great horse and can be a lot of fun, but he's as wide as a house and he moves like tank. As much as I love him I sometimes regret buying him. I am finding as I train the TB, even with all the loose screws, I am starting to prefer riding him. I would gladly volunteer for this PR program to take a stipend commensurate with my current salary, quit my job and retrain OTTBs for adult amateurs.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Marketing projects for the OTTB

                                    There is a mid-atlantic group that was trying to get something off the ground as far as marketing OTTB's.

                                    Unfortunately most people have too many other immediate priorities to attend (such as tending to horses, keeping jobs, etc.) and it has not moved along much. At one point, there was discussion of using the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique patch/insignia as a common marketing tool for various groups - private as well as public non-profits.

                                    http://www.trramidatlantic.org/forum/YaBB.pl

                                    Some of the marketing phrases tossed around:

                                    The Thoroughbred - your next Sporthorse!
                                    A Thoroughbred's heart can carry your dreams
                                    There is no "quit" in a Thoroughbred

                                    It could use a dedicated, sensible and reliable person to spearhead....
                                    Niki Smith, Executive Director - The Exceller Fund
                                    Providing a Future Beyond the Finish Line sm
                                    www.excellerfund.org
                                    niki.smith@excellerfund.org

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I live about 30 minutes from Mountaineer in OH. Although I really oppose the sale of racehorses, or any other horse for that matter, to slaughter, I can see where the trainers/owners at Mountaineer feel that they have no other recourse. Hay and feed prices are higher than ever and there aren't many people in a position to take on more horses. Especially in the tri-state area, the economy is really bad and there are so many horses in this area already. My friend counted the horses within a square half-mile of her house and said there are over 150 horses. You can't drive down a single road in this area and not see horses. There are a couple of local horse rescues, but I'm sure they are swamped. I just picked up a free horse for someone last week. My barn is full and I just don't know anyone who has room for another horse. To top it off, with the lousy weather we had in May, June, and part of July, the farmers haven't been able to get their hay in. I hear of OTTBs free to a good home quite often. OTTBs aren't the only horses suffering in this economy. We can only hope someone comes up with a solution.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Another kind of racehorse. Pity that they have gone from putting 700 foals a year on the ground to just 264 in '07. I haven't heard from them where they go if they don't make it to the track or break down. Vets no less.

                                        http://ourohio.org/index.php?page=ru...-of-a-lifetime
                                        "Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

                                        Ponies are cool!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                          I really don't know where you are trying to go with your comments.

                                          If their spam irritates you so much, you have a link at the bottom to unsubscribe.
                                          And miss proving a point that they won't stop breeding, no matter what the market? No way. And given the opportunity to prove that....I took it.

                                          Those are some meaty looking horses don't you think? And oh so close to the borders.
                                          "Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

                                          Ponies are cool!

                                          Comment

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