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I have GOT to understand this or I will bust! Eventers vs Hunters

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  • I have GOT to understand this or I will bust! Eventers vs Hunters

    Ok, So far I haven’t understood the difference and I am starting to believe I am stupid. What is the difference between a hunter and an eventer?
    • Doesn’t a hunter compete on XC just like an eventer?
    • Doesn’t a hunter jump just like an eventer?
    • Doesn’t a hunter even dress darn close to an eventer?
    • Doesn’t a hunter ride forward seat just like an eventer (isn’t that also called 2 point)?
    • What is the difference between a show jumper and a show hunter?
    • If a hunter jumps too, why do riding schools mention “hunter/jumper” in their lessons if a hunter jumps anyway?
    • Why isn’t hunt seat an Olympic competition?
    • Don’t hunters get judged on equitation?
    • Conformation?
    • Attire?
    • Don’t they get timed? If so, doesn’t any other discipline anyway?

    What….oh WHAT is the difference between the two??? I can never get it straight. Aaaahhh I am confused and can’t seem to get a clear understanding between the two no matter how much I have read, googled, talked about it.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Theworldover View Post
    Ok, So far I haven’t understood the difference and I am starting to believe I am stupid. What is the difference between a hunter and an eventer?
    • Doesn’t a hunter compete on XC just like an eventer? No
    • Doesn’t a hunter jump just like an eventer? No
    • Doesn’t a hunter even dress darn close to an eventer? Nope
    • Doesn’t a hunter ride forward seat just like an eventer (isn’t that also called 2 point)? Yes, but I think there are different "seats" that a xc rider will use thoroughout a course, versus what a hunter rider will use.
    • What is the difference between a show jumper and a show hunter? The style... the jumper is more about "fastness" versus a hunter which is more about style, grace...
    • If a hunter jumps too, why do riding schools mention “hunter/jumper” in their lessons if a hunter jumps anyway? Because the hunter is a style and the jumper is a different style.
    • Why isn’t hunt seat an Olympic competition? Don't know.
    • Don’t hunters get judged on equitation? Yep... that's why they have the "eq" courses/classes.
    • Conformation? Yep - hunters, not jumpers or eventers
    • Attire? XC is bold (typically) and hunters are more traditional, with coats. Jumpers are the same as hunters for the most part, attire wise.
    • Don’t they get timed? If so, doesn’t any other discipline anyway? XC and jumpers are timed. I think hunters may be, but I don't ride any of those disciplines. I'm strictly a dressage rider.

    What….oh WHAT is the difference between the two??? I can never get it straight. Aaaahhh I am confused and can’t seem to get a clear understanding between the two no matter how much I have read, googled, talked about it.
    LOL. Not sure if I answered any of those right. Just my humble opinions.
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos

    Comment


    • #3
      Doesn’t a hunter compete on XC just like an eventer?
      no, hunters compete in an arena (sand or grass) over jumps made of standards, rails, gates, etc. not in an open field/woods over natural (or replicas of natural) objects like logs, ditches, water, and and man made solid jumps.
      Doesn’t a hunter jump just like an eventer?
      not sure what you mean by this one
      Doesn’t a hunter even dress darn close to an eventer?
      hunter attire may be close to show jumping attire (dark jacket and light breeches) for an eventer, but far from cross country attire (polo shirt, safety vest, and in colors)
      Doesn’t a hunter ride forward seat just like an eventer (isn’t that also called 2 point)?
      hunters *tend* to ride a bit more forward than eventers who may ride more defensively on cross country but the overall idea is the same, yes
      What is the difference between a show jumper and a show hunter?
      show hunters are being judged on style, ease of going, movement, and resentation of their round, or "eight perfect fences" and time is not a factor. Show jumpers are being judged against the clock and receive penalty points for rails down or refusals, style has no effect on score
      If a hunter jumps too, why do riding schools mention “hunter/jumper” in their lessons if a hunter jumps anyway?
      because hunters and jumpers are two different english disciplines (see above)
      Why isn’t hunt seat an Olympic competition?
      "hunt seat" isn't a discipline, I have no idea why hunters aren't is not an olympic sport
      Don’t hunters get judged on equitation?
      technically yes, but equitation is it's own discipline where the rider is supposed to be judged exclusively. In the hunters, officially it is the horse being judged, but equitation obviously does play a part in the "pretty picture"
      Conformation?
      officially only in the conformation hunters
      Attire?
      not officially, but some say you can't pin if you aren't wearing the right helmet
      Don’t they get timed? If so, doesn’t any other discipline anyway?
      hunters do not get timed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hunters take place only in a ring. You have flat classes where your horse is judged on suitable compared to the other horses in the ring. If you are in an equitation class, your riding abilities are judged compared to other riders. In hunter classes if your horse bucks you can guarantee to go down in ribbons because your horse is not supposed to buck. In an equitation class, if your horse bucks, you still may be in good standing in the ribbons - it depends on the judge and what they are looking for. Some will see a rider riding well and pin them even though they are on a less than perfect horse while others will not.

        In hunters, it is form over function. The classes are not timed. What is checked are proper leads, lead changes, proper striding between jumps and proper form over jumps. In equitation classes, the rider's form over jumps is judged while in hunter classes, the horse's form over jumps is judge. Take the stadium jumping phase of eventing and this is what the hunter/jumper/equitation people jump in.

        How you dress in stadium jumping is proper attire for hunter/jumper/equitation (hunt coat, breeches, tall boots, proper hat, shirt). Colors sometimes vary each year - sometimes hunter green coats and beige breeches are fashionable, sometimes black with gray, etc. It doesn't really get you lower in the ribbons, but is a fashion item...

        A hunter is only in two point over the jumps. The half seat that is used cross country by many eventers is not generally used in the hunter/equitation world, they tend to sit back more. A jumper will use half seat more often. In the flat classes, you are expected to sit back and half seat will be penalized by most judges.

        Jumpers are different. As described above, hunter is about form. A jumper is about speed and accuracy. You can jump like a sack of potatoes and your horse can hang his knees over every jump - you make it over the quickest without knocking a rail or refusing and you are golden. Usually there are two round. The first has a time limit, like recognized event shows in stadium jumping. Depending on the show, the top 10 riders or all the riders that were under a certain amount of penalty points gets to phase two. Phase two - quickest time without knocking rails. There are penalty points if you go over the time.

        A barn that advertises hunter/jumper is stating that they train both form and speed/accuracy type horses - sometimes they are the same horses, sometimes they aren't.

        hunter, hunt seat, saddle seat, western disciplines are not Olympic events because they are not worldwide events. In order for them to be Olympic events they need to have an audience around the world.

        Any more clear?

        Comment


        • #5
          Let me see if I can clarify these for you.
          • Doesn’t a hunter compete on XC just like an eventer?

            If you are talking about a field hunter/fox hunter, yes they do jump very similar obstacles.
            They are asked to jump coops, walls and brush in a group following the hounds. If you are talking about a show hunter, then they are very different. A show hunter jumps in a ring over 8 fences. They are judged on form over fences and quality of movement. They need to look very easy to ride like the rider can just sit up there in a half seat and let the fences happen....perfectly of course
          • Doesn’t a hunter jump just like an eventer?

            Well....good form is nice for an eventer but not all good form is equal. You can have a very scopey jumper that does not have the ideal form for hunters but might make a fabulous show jumper or eventer.
          • Doesn’t a hunter even dress darn close to an eventer?

            Not really....Eventers do wear a hunt coat for their show jumping phase if that is required but are not quite as fashion concious as your typical hunter rider....not slamming either one because I tend to swing both ways
          • Doesn’t a hunter ride forward seat just like an eventer (isn’t that also called 2 point)?

            Most eventers do not ride their courses in a 2 point except between cross country fences when they are moving along a bit. If eventers used the same 2 point as hunters, they would be risking becoming lawn darts.
          • What is the difference between a show jumper and a show hunter?
            Show jumpers are judged on clean rounds. The fastest round with no time penalties or knockdowns win. Show hunters are judged on their form (the horse's form not the rider's form)
          • If a hunter jumps too, why do riding schools mention “hunter/jumper” in their lessons if a hunter jumps anyway?

            Because most jumper trainers find that hunters are a great place to start both beginning horses and riders.
          • Why isn’t hunt seat an Olympic competition?

            That is a good question that I do not really have an answer. I would guess because hunters are too subjective.
          • Don’t hunters get judged on equitation?

            Nope. The rider can look like a learning disabled monkey and if the horse puts in a flawless round, that horse will win
          • Conformation?

            There is a conformation hunter division.
          • Attire?

            Only really gets judged by other hunter riders And again...not slamming hunters
          • Don’t they get timed? If so, doesn’t any other discipline anyway?

            Hunters do not get timed. Eventers are timed and jumpers are timed.


          Did that help a little?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by imapepper View Post
            Nope. The rider can look like a learning disabled monkey and if the horse puts in a flawless round, that horse will win
            HA!

            I never heard that term used before...oh so amusing. Don't let anyone from the hunter board see it!

            I mentioned 'sack of potatoes' once to illustrate the same point and got slammed...some people are a bit more sensitive than others....

            Comment


            • #7
              And don't forget that "hunters" in the UK are another thing entirely than "hunters" in the show rings of the USA. Which are both altogether different than horses that actually are ridden to hounds.
              Click here before you buy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Pretty sure that Show Hunters are not in the Olympics because they really only exist in America.
                One of the lessons of history is that Nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say.
                - Will Durant

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thank you very much everyone!! You explanations helped unsort all this mess in my brain. I have a few more questions:

                  Imapeper
                  Does that mean that the hunter who has to complete a round of jumps can take all the time they want to finish (as opposed to the eventer) as long as their main goal is to have perfect form and appearance?

                  Why will the XC eventer risk being a lawn dart if they ride 2 point too long? Is it because of the galloping speed? Wouldn’t you have to lean a bit when galloping anyway?

                  Ajierene
                  Do you mean the hunter tends to lean back more as a riding style or the eventer?

                  Since the hunter competes on flatwork AND jumps do they do it both in one day just like the eventers do (on some shows anyway)?

                  And To Everyone
                  Except for during a jump, does the hunter ride centered and balanced …as in the principles of ‘centered riding’? (I think centered riding applies to all disciplines but I wanted to be sure I am correct on this) ....or do they tend to lean more even on the flat?


                  Thanks again. I believe I have included all my questions (I think)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The rider should always be centered and balanced. By 'leaning back more' (was a bad description on my part), I merely meant they do not sit in half seat for the entire round. They will sit up more, like when cantering on the flat - eventers and jumpers tend to sit in half seat more during a jump course.

                    All classes are done within one day, for one division. Each division has three or four classes in it, one or two flat classes and one or two jumping classes. Sometimes there is a hack class that has flat and then a pattern, which includes one or two jumps. In a hack class, everyone stands to one side of the arena while one competitor completes the pattern - it is usually trot at this point, canter on this lead at this point, do a circle, jump this jump, stop back up - or something similar. During the jumping classes in a division, the only rider in the ring is the one going over the jumps.

                    The classes in each division are run right after the other.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ajierene View Post
                      The rider should always be centered and balanced. By 'leaning back more' (was a bad description on my part), I merely meant they do not sit in half seat for the entire round. They will sit up more, like when cantering on the flat - eventers and jumpers tend to sit in half seat more during a jump course.

                      All classes are done within one day, for one division. Each division has three or four classes in it, one or two flat classes and one or two jumping classes. Sometimes there is a hack class that has flat and then a pattern, which includes one or two jumps. In a hack class, everyone stands to one side of the arena while one competitor completes the pattern - it is usually trot at this point, canter on this lead at this point, do a circle, jump this jump, stop back up - or something similar. During the jumping classes in a division, the only rider in the ring is the one going over the jumps.

                      The classes in each division are run right after the other.

                      Oh I get it now. Thanks Ajierene!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ok, bear with my since I have only read a few of the responses, so forgive me if I repeat something...

                        The easiest way for you understand the difference between hunters and eventing would be to ride in a competition of each and see for yourself. They are two completely different worlds. If you can't do that, at least try to watch one of each. If you can't do that, YouTube it. Aside from that, I think you have been given pretty good explanations (from what I've read).

                        And then there's the whole dressage "thing". And while yes it is true that it is ridden on the flat, it is totally different than the flat/hack classes at hunter shows.

                        This is all assuming that you're talking about show hunters vs. foxhunters.

                        I understand how you're confused. When I try to explain eventing to people who don't know what it is, they just get blank looks on their faces.
                        God forbid that I go to a heaven in which there are no horses

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Tuckertoo View Post
                          ......If you can't do that, YouTube it.


                          ......I understand how you're confused. When I try to explain eventing to people who don't know what it is, they just get blank looks on their faces.

                          LOL on YouTube because it has become my best friend lately trying to understand specifics in many areas of anything horse!

                          and LOL on the "blank looks on their faces" line because that was exactly how I felt up until now.

                          I have a MUCH better idea of hunters/eventers/jumpers now than I did up until yesterday although watching a show will totally make it crystal clear to me.

                          Again I can't thank everyone enough for your comments!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Show Hunters
                            Show Jumpers
                            Eventers

                            Hopefully this helps a bit, videos speak a thousand words
                            Duct tape is like The Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together. -Carl Zwanzig

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ajierene View Post
                              HA!

                              I never heard that term used before...oh so amusing. Don't let anyone from the hunter board see it!

                              I mentioned 'sack of potatoes' once to illustrate the same point and got slammed...some people are a bit more sensitive than others....

                              yea...not really.
                              We do know how to ride. heh.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by justasmidge View Post
                                Show Hunters
                                Show Jumpers
                                Eventers

                                Hopefully this helps a bit, videos speak a thousand words

                                PRICELESS footage! Thank you!! One thing I noticed on the show hunter video, they all leaned forward more than I thought. Isn't a hunter supposed to lean back a bit on the flat?

                                I have bookmarked the clips to watch again and again and again....

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  no, we ride in a forward seat in the hack classes.
                                  Usually inclined in the trot and some sort of a half seat at the canter.
                                  We have a more closed hip angle then eventers.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Some other semi-technical but interesting differences...

                                    In eventing, no one can coach you or give direction when you are competing (that is, in the dressage ring, on the XC course, jumping your stadium round). If anyone does, and it can even be a bystander yelling "Go faster!", the rider is disqualified. This isn't true in the hunters and jumpers, where coaches will often stand at the rail and shout instructions to their students.

                                    In the hunters and jumpers, a trainer may ride the horse in a class or two before you ride in your class(es). In eventing, no one is permitted to ride your horse on the show grounds but you. (There is a minor exception: a groom may ride a horse at the walk over to a ring on a loose rein to meet it's rider.)

                                    There are some different tack specifications in eventing (i.e. no standing martingales).

                                    And my favorite difference: in eventing, all fences in warmup are flagged as to which direction you can jump them. Not true in hunters and jumpers, and it has scared the bejeezus out of me on the rare occasions that I've ventured over there.
                                    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      And just to be confusing there's the Hunter Under saddle in the Quarter Horse world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VcDMO98a0

                                      Another beast altogether. Check oiut the walk and the canter...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I like to describe it this way. Hunters is more about a "Style" of riding. They pose over jumps and such. They have a "hunter seat", which may not be real effective, but it gets them ribbons, as it is judged very subjectively.
                                        Eventing is about being balanced and effective.
                                        If you tried to pose over a cross country jump, you might not make it to the other side!
                                        Dressage is the only part of eventing that could be considered subjective, but it is supposed to be judged mainly on the horse, and they are looking for specific movements.
                                        Jumpers might be considered the closest thing to an eventing stadium round. However the jumps are different (although not to an untrained eye!). Many an eventer use local jumper shows to get out there and school their horses.

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