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Horses that need to be ridden a certain way

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  • Original Poster

    Originally posted by Whisper View Post

    I'd suggest having the trainer, or a really good rider, get on him and deliberately be a little sloppy with their legs, starting at the halt, then walk, etc. They can control how much they're doing, and if he does scoot off, will be able to get him back listening to them again quickly.
    That was my hope with the 60 days in the training barn. They did try, but as I said he's quirky and he was not happy being in the training barn. He got kind of increasingly agitated and spooky. He is much happier just being handled by his "family."

    My goal is to switch some of the training rides my horse is currently getting to the pony, but I have to get to the point where I won't ruin all of my horse's lovely dressage training first.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparky View Post
      arabhorse2, I think I love you.
      Me too.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
        That was my hope with the 60 days in the training barn. They did try, but as I said he's quirky and he was not happy being in the training barn. He got kind of increasingly agitated and spooky. He is much happier just being handled by his "family."

        My goal is to switch some of the training rides my horse is currently getting to the pony, but I have to get to the point where I won't ruin all of my horse's lovely dressage training first.
        I haven't read the entire thread but I wonder if it wasn't the environment in the training barn that was more the problem. I've known horses who just couldn't handle the busy environment that most training barns have. Most also have limited turnout and high amounts of grain, IME, plus a lot of different people besides just the trainer handle the horse (don't know if the trainer is considered part of the "family"). You might want to try to find another barn that's smaller and quieter, or a trainer who will come to your place.

        I know this thread has morphed way past the original topic, but I wouldn't let the kid ride your horse anymore either. Regardless of whether he's good or not, now that he's run off with her once if he does it again and she falls and gets hurt, it could be argued that you have prior knowledge of this behavior. For that reason alone I'd be hesitant to let her back on. It's better to be the bad guy than to have a kid get hurt and you get sued.

        Sorry if you've already addressed that; like I said, I skimmed over a lot of this and some posts might have gotten lost among it. I had a bad fall a couple of years ago that severely screwed up my neck, and I'm still feeling it. It's hard to be flexible and soft when you're in pain, even when it's that chronic low-grade type that you're hardly even aware of anymore, and yours sounds worse than that. I hope your recovery continues to go well.
        exploring the relationship between horse and human

        Comment


        • Dang, goeslikestink, if I'd known you made house calls I'd have had you over here before now! Do any of my fellow South Carolinians want to chip in and we'll share her?

          Ambrey - I've just now read the whole thread and I can't remember all the particularsbut there are two things that jumped out at me.

          I strongly suggest a paradigm shift away from restraining the horse. You're never going to win a battle of muscles with a draft horse, not even with a pelham. Spend some time with him where you both feel safe, and get him listening to you before trying to head out into the wide open spaces.

          Draft horses are a bit like men - they always think they're in the right, and they're stronger than you are. So you have to use persuasion, not force, to win them over to your way of thinking.

          And get comfortable with saying not just "No" but "Hell No" when you're not sure if someone should be riding your pony or not.
          I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

          Comment


          • I would like to encourage Ambrey and C&C to put up their very own bulletin board where they can post to each other about the things that matter most in their lives -- themselves. In the meantime, I'm putting both on "ignore".

            What a pair of bores.

            Comment


            • [QUOTE=Tamara in TN;3376699]

              ummmmm he sounds too broke for her....you will either have to dummy him down (which would be a shame) or tune her up
              This is what I was thinking too, maybe she was just holding onto him really tight with her legs or something?

              Comment


              • why thank you, x
                Last edited by goeslikestink; Jul. 27, 2008, 04:33 PM.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by CosMonster View Post
                  I haven't read the entire thread but I wonder if it wasn't the environment in the training barn that was more the problem. I've known horses who just couldn't handle the busy environment that most training barns have. Most also have limited turnout and high amounts of grain, IME, plus a lot of different people besides just the trainer handle the horse (don't know if the trainer is considered part of the "family"). You might want to try to find another barn that's smaller and quieter, or a trainer who will come to your place.
                  Actually, "training barn" means something different here than it does many places . He was in the stall he's in now, he was just under the supervision and training and care of the staff of a particular barn. I think it was just too much for him.

                  And he solved the other issue by coming up lame today So, nobody is going to be riding him for a little while!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                    Actually, "training barn" means something different here than it does many places .
                    !
                    :YAWN:


                    Well what a surprise.

                    You have contradicted everyone else, on everything, so now it is the defintion of "training barn"

                    Ambrey - get a life woman.

                    Paddy
                    "Chaos, panic and disorder. My work here is done"

                    ~Member of the "Addicted to Lessons" clique~

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post

                      I strongly suggest a paradigm shift away from restraining the horse. You're never going to win a battle of muscles with a draft horse, not even with a pelham. Spend some time with him where you both feel safe, and get him listening to you before trying to head out into the wide open spaces.
                      See, this is how I know I don't explain things well. I was actually trying my darndest to explain that things are quite the opposite now- there's no need for restraint at all. He just plugs along like a champ. For me, with my seat being so weak, "forward" is more of an issue than "whoa" by far.

                      When he locks his jaw and gets resistant he doesn't try to speed up. He just wants to pull out of his frame and poke his nose out. He is doing this much less at the trot now, unless he gets tired- more in canter work (which is my trainer's purview atm).

                      And that's when my trainer tells me to use the curb rein- when he pokes his nose out and resists giving it back to me. He'll usually stop or downward transition with barely a hint of aid (overaiding is my biggest issue right now).

                      Comment


                      • actually i had to go back and have a look at your video and pic

                        how the hell do you ride with a a double bridle and hang onto it like it was a handle ie both riens together no wonder your horse is fighting you

                        your trianer has no idea if he hasnt picked you up or show you how to hold the reins of a double bridle

                        big mistake there and once again i proved your trianer dont know his arse from his bum

                        and your posting over the top of the horse head ie to forward not relaxed
                        and will come off- hes not a tank hes a horse and his mouth your going to make as hard as iron
                        as you havent learnt to ride the horse from butt to poll to relaxed yaw

                        your yanking on his gob -- the poor blooming horse its not him its you

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                          See, this is how I know I don't explain things well. I was actually trying my darndest to explain that things are quite the opposite now- there's no need for restraint at all. He just plugs along like a champ. For me, with my seat being so weak, "forward" is more of an issue than "whoa" by far.

                          When he locks his jaw and gets resistant he doesn't try to speed up. He just wants to pull out of his frame and poke his nose out. He is doing this much less at the trot now, unless he gets tired- more in canter work (which is my trainer's purview atm).

                          And that's when my trainer tells me to use the curb rein- when he pokes his nose out and resists giving it back to me. He'll usually stop or downward transition with barely a hint of aid (overaiding is my biggest issue right now).
                          OK, "restraint" was not a good word to use on my part.

                          It doesn't matter if he's speeding up or slowing down, if he's doing it when you've asked for something else, he's evading. Which is bad. Even though evading by slowing down is way less scary than evading by speeding up, it's still an evasion to the horse, who may decide to vary his technique at any time.

                          I've never heard of a curb rein, sorry. Is that what you're using in the video? I've always just called that apparatus a double bridle, but I consider myself too novice to use one. I can post the trot without stirrups and I think I have a fairly independent seat but still don't trust my hands enough for one of those.

                          Regardless, you say "overaiding" is your biggest issue. I think this is an easy trap to fall into - I know in the past I was guilty of picking a fight with my horse to please a trainer.

                          What I did was to calmly tell the trainer we'd get there when we got there and refuse to escalate the aids.

                          I just kept asking in the same way. It will feel like your horse is ignoring you forever, but if you stay calm and keep asking in the same way with no escalation in pressure or emphasis or anything, I'll bet you a beer you won't have to wait longer than forty-five seconds for a response. At least, that's my draft cross's record for pretending the-woman-on-the-back doesn't exist.
                          I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by goeslikestink View Post
                            actually i had to go back and have a look at your video and pic

                            how the hell do you ride with a a double bridle and hang onto it like it was a handle ie both riens together no wonder your horse is fighting you

                            your trianer has no idea if he hasnt picked you up or show you how to hold the reins of a double bridle

                            big mistake there and once again i proved your trianer dont know his arse from his bum

                            and your posting over the top of the horse head ie to forward not relaxed
                            and will come off- hes not a tank hes a horse and his mouth your going to make as hard as iron
                            as you havent learnt to ride the horse from butt to poll to relaxed yaw

                            your yanking on his gob -- the poor blooming horse its not him its you
                            You couldn't be more right.

                            Comment


                            • While I understand the liability issue (especially in this day in age) BUT come on........How many of us grew up learning to ride like this? I know I did.

                              When I was a kid I did not have a horse and did NOT come from a horse family. My instructor introduced me to a girl who was going off to college, but had to leave her horse at the barn. Her (looking back now) touchy, somewhat sensitive, but awesome mare and I took a few lessons together, practiced in the ring on our own, and graduated to trail riding (in groups). I fell a few times (more like bailed when she got a bit hot) but guess what I learned a lot, and we finally figured each other out beautifully!

                              We wonder why so many of our young riders aren't really turning into horse people? We don't get to give them the chance anymore.

                              I would talk to the trainer and the mom and see if there is a waiver or something just to cover everyones bums.

                              Thank you for offering this young rider the opportunity to grow as a rider, and your horse the opportunity to get out like he likes.
                              Proud Mom of a 2005 Nevada Mustang **Mistress X**
                              Undersaddle Equestrian Services
                              www.undersaddle.com

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by undersaddle View Post
                                Thank you for offering this young rider the opportunity to grow as a rider, and your horse the opportunity to get out like he likes.
                                Sorry, but if the horse is bolting off and evading, he doesn't sound as though he's enjoying himself.

                                As a child I also learned on other people's horses, but they were horses appropriate to my skill level. Overhorsing people does not generally help them grow as riders.
                                I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                  Sorry, but if the horse is bolting off and evading, he doesn't sound as though he's enjoying himself.

                                  As a child I also learned on other people's horses, but they were horses appropriate to my skill level.

                                  She said they figured it out after the initial singular "bolt".

                                  Its one thing if he kept going round and round bolting and evading every time she put her leg on and then grabbed his face punishing him just repeating the cycle. But if they work it out in a safe environment, it may help desensitize him (a little) and give her a great seat.

                                  I agree with the poster above who said when most (nervous, less educated, or newer) riders get on something new they tend to "grip" more then normal, hence a less educated leg and seat verses a schooled and educated one.

                                  How is the rider suppose to learn the difference? And If the horse owner, parent, trainer, and rider feel comfortable with the set up.....More power to them.
                                  Proud Mom of a 2005 Nevada Mustang **Mistress X**
                                  Undersaddle Equestrian Services
                                  www.undersaddle.com

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post

                                    I just kept asking in the same way. It will feel like your horse is ignoring you forever, but if you stay calm and keep asking in the same way with no escalation in pressure or emphasis or anything, I'll bet you a beer you won't have to wait longer than forty-five seconds for a response. At least, that's my draft cross's record for pretending the-woman-on-the-back doesn't exist.
                                    I think it's an honest difference in training methods. Were I training my own horse, had I the ability, I'd love to say I'd do it the classical way and never deviate. But, I'm not training my horse, and my trainer has his own ways- and although based on how I describe the situation the internet brain trust disagrees, in the here and now whatever my trainer is doing really works for my horse- in terms of not only his dressage training but also his happiness.

                                    I call the curb rein the rein attached to the leverage portion of the bit. The other rein is attached directly, like a snaffle- so I usually leave the curb rein pretty loose and use the snaffle rein.

                                    I don't see his slowing as an evasion, because I don't think I'm properly applying the aids to get him going forward. In that way, I'd say he's not at all ignoring the woman on his back. Most of the time, he does exactly what I ask him to- it's just not always what I mean to ask, if you know what I mean My trainer says "when the horse misbehaves, it's either because you're causing it or because you're not stopping it." In that case, I'd say it's the former. Almost every time he loses his forward, I can immediately identify what I did to cause it.

                                    But seriously, I'd rather have a horse who's looking for an excuse to poop out right now than a horse who's looking for an excuse to take off, because I'm clearly giving a few excuses here and there And when I ride him correctly, he's doing pretty well (not as forward as with my trainer, but OK).

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Originally posted by undersaddle View Post
                                      She said they figured it out after the initial singular "bolt".

                                      Its one thing if he kept going round and round bolting and evading every time she put her leg on and then grabbed his face punishing him just repeating the cycle. But if they work it out in a safe environment, it may help desensitize him (a little) and give her a great seat.

                                      I agree with the poster above who said when most (nervous, less educated, or newer) riders get on something new they tend to "grip" more then normal, hence a less educated leg and seat verses a schooled and educated one.

                                      How is the rider suppose to learn the difference? And If the horse owner, parent, trainer, and rider feel comfortable with the set up.....More power to them.
                                      I agree with both of you.

                                      The pony was not really happy with the intial set up, that was readily apparent I won't repeat that.

                                      And after the initial problem, the girl did get into the bullpen and ride him nicely. So there was a problem and some level of resolution there. I agree with undersaddle that learning to resolve problems is really confidence building- so although the intial romp around the arena might have been bad, I think realizing that she could figure him out and not give him conflicting signals was a good thing.

                                      And again, he's in limp-and-wrap mode now, so it's a non-issue.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                                        And again, he's in limp-and-wrap mode now, so it's a non-issue.
                                        Ohh, I am so sorry. This has just been a rough summer for so many of us two legged and four legged besties.

                                        Putting your boy on my list of get well soon thoughts!!!!!
                                        Proud Mom of a 2005 Nevada Mustang **Mistress X**
                                        Undersaddle Equestrian Services
                                        www.undersaddle.com

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          Originally posted by undersaddle View Post
                                          Ohh, I am so sorry. This has just been a rough summer for so many of us two legged and four legged besties.

                                          Putting your boy on my list of get well soon thoughts!!!!!
                                          Thank you so much! That's very sweet.

                                          Comment

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