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New slaughter plant application makes mockery of unwanted horse theory?

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  • #21
    The French and Italians eat horsemeat and they have special breeds of horses who are raised for meat. The Dutch raise horses for the other European countries to eat.

    They are all civilized countries, but with very different values from US. In general, my preference overall is their values. I honestly see nothing wrong in breeding and raising any animal for meat. I certainly would like to see horsemeat back in dogfood.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

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    • #22
      Originally posted by skippy60 View Post
      Dude, we are animals too. Breeding an animal for slaughter is cruel. I mean, we don't do this to humans, do we? If they are going to slaughter horses, slaughter the ones with really bad conformational/temperamental issues. The ones that cant be used for anything. Same goes for cows and chickens and pigs and every other animal on the planet.
      Using that logic, perhaps we should re-use defective humans. Soylent green anyone?

      Note...I'm am not an ARA!

      Comment


      • #23
        You know Bluey, if you tamped down the rhetoric a bit and lost all the icons, people might take you a bit more seriously.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
          Using that logic, perhaps we should re-use defective humans. Soylent green anyone?

          Note...I'm am not an ARA!

          Beats the waste of throwing them into a concrete box in the ground

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
            You know Bluey, if you tamped down the rhetoric a bit and lost all the icons, people might take you a bit more seriously.
            Thanks for your opinion, will think about your advice.

            You know, long ago, when I started posting, some told me I was hard to understand, some took me too seriously and to please use icons to give a bit more feel to my words, that sound right out of a book.
            Ok, I learned my written English from magazines and books and I think it reflects that, is stilted even to my ears.

            Soo, there you have, I use icons to try to lighten up the sound of my thoughts.

            Comment


            • #26
              Here is the actual press release, before people start to make it up as they go along...

              “That phase will probably take a couple of months, which if we find that it is a fit--so far all indications are good--we will move into an aggressive timeline to develop and implement a full business plan that (if everything goes right, and nothing goes wrong) would have us opening the doors and beginning operations around September,” she wrote.

              The company is looking at a site in the southern Midwest because it is where the majority of the U.S. horse herd is concentrated, Wallis said.

              “ company owned by a Wyoming state legislator is looking at opening a horse meat processing plant in south-central Missouri.

              The company, United Equine, whose chief executive is Wyoming representative Sue Wallis, is studying a site near Mountain Grove, Missouri, for the plant, which would slaughter and process horses for human consumption. The company is currently conducting a feasibility study, Wallis told Meatingplace in an e-mail.

              This is envisioned to be a flagship model for the country, and a facility that we can rightfully show off,” she wrote.

              Horses that would be processed will be mature animals weighing 1,100 to 1,300 pounds, and would come from a variety of sources, she said. “Some will be older horses that have been used for some other purpose. Others will be horses that are younger but unwanted or unusable for any other purpose for a variety of reasons which could range from being dangerous and untrainable to being undesirable because of poor conformation, injury, or blemish,” Wallis wrote.

              The horses would have been kept on feed for a period of time to ensure quality, she said. “This produces the quality of meat that is sought after by the European and Asian consumer, and which we anticipate will be well received by specialty, gourmet, ethnic, and health conscious consumers in the United States,” Wallis said.

              She noted that horse meat is lean and high in protein, iron and omega-3 fatty acids.

              The company as partnered with Chevideco, a leading European horse meat company with markets in 23 countries that is growing 15 percent per year, Wallis said.

              A U.S. appropriations bill passed by the U.S. Congress and signed by President Barack Obama in November lifted a prohibition on funding USDA inspections of horse slaughter facilities. (See “Lifting of U.S. horse slaughter ban renews debate,” on Meatingplace, Dec. 1, 2011.)

              The plant would initially employ 40 to 50 people and could have the capacity to slaughter 200 horses a day in one shift. Wallis said the animal handling facilities would be designed by Temple Grandin.
              So, they will build/adapt a plant to be designed by Temple Grandin, feedlot the horses before slaughter (No starving or not watering them as is sometimes the concern now.), horses will be trucked a shorter distance in many cases and have USDA inspectors on site throughout.

              There is always going to be horse slaughter, as long as there are "excess" horses.

              Why attack those who are trying to do it as well as possible?

              NJR
              Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
                Why attack those who are trying to do it as well as possible?

                NJR
                butbutbutbutbut



                yeah, curse them for trying to do it well.

                But no matter how well, they are killing My Pretty Pony, they are more evul than He Who Should Not Be Named....

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by JumpingPaints View Post
                  I thought the whole point of horse slaughter was to 'take care of the unwanted horses.'

                  I bet the plant owners are grateful to all those who endlessly perpetuated that talking point to help get the defunding overturned and pave the way for them to breed the ultimate Frankenhorse for European dinner plates.
                  No, not the "whole point", certainly. But absolutely one of the benefits.

                  I still don't understand why the fact that we are talking about "European dinner plates" is used as an incendiary device in this debate? So what? Many of the slaughtered-for-human-consumption horses end up on European plates. What is the point being made? That we need to stop exporting ANY of our meat to "European plates"? Sure, try enacting that law.
                  Sheilah

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                  • #29
                    You can't compare European horse slaughter to American horse slaughter. Theirs is REGULATED.

                    Ours is NOT. And here - for the benefit of those who never get off the OC slaughter threads into an actual discipline - (just for starters) is what you all propose to put in our food chain...
                    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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                    • #30
                      Keeping horses well maintained is *expensive*. I'm sure that's not news to anyone on this board!

                      How are they gonna take proper care of these horses over a period of time and keep it profitable? Are they gonna do vet work on horses that get hurt? Are they gonna pay the farrier to pull shoes on animals they plan to feedlot? Will they be mucking regularly? Are they gonna be paying for hay like I'm having to do? Will they build safe shelter so these horses do't live exposed to weather? Are they gonna put in fencing to separate mares and geldings? None of the things I've listed above are anything but common sense horse keeping practice. There is no way they will make money if they have to meet the same minimum level of care I am required to maintain.

                      If these places were humanely managed, I could just agree to disagree about slaughter. But-it's all about the bottom line, so the horses will come out on the short end.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by lesson junkie View Post

                        If these places were humanely managed, I could just agree to disagree about slaughter. But-it's all about the bottom line, so the horses will come out on the short end.
                        I agree. When the plants were open before, and had an FDA inspector on site, I recall that there was still a lot of inhumane treatment.

                        And then there's the environmental issues. Are they going to be able to invest in the infrastructure needed to avoid a Kaufman TX scenario?

                        http://www.forbes.com/sites/vickerye...cks-some-tail/

                        And I always thought horses made poor meat animals (at least in volume) because it took so long for them to mature?

                        I dunno, it just seems to me, leaving the emotional issues aside, that any time they talk about opening a plant, no matter how they present how wonderful it's going to be, the plans go poof! Sure seems like if there were any money in it, there would be a lot of incentive to go forward. Does the fact that they can't develop a money making scenario tell you something?

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                        • #32
                          Ah, no. Keeping a horse as pet is expensive.
                          That does not equal well maintained.
                          Naturally you can't run a herd in Suburbia and expect a profit, nor in places (like Texas) where there is no rain, no grass and no prospect of either.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                            Does anyone else remember when this BB wasn't an emotional trainwreck? When discussions could get heated and there was disagreement but at least the information was intelligent, well thought out and from experienced folks.
                            I miss that.
                            The same is true for the way this whole country has changed. Just look at the discourse around our politics. Even if you happen to be one of the few who capable of logical evaluation of information before developing a well informed opinion, it is very difficult with all the erroneous information out there to even understand what the truth is on almost anything. Then throw in all the emotional people lacking the ability to apply a scrap of logic to save their lives - you know, the people who will chose their president based on one pet issues....and we are screwed. The collective emotional IQ of this country seems to have suffered a precipitous drop.

                            Originally posted by skippy60 View Post
                            Dude, we are animals too. Breeding an animal for slaughter is cruel. I mean, we don't do this to humans, do we? If they are going to slaughter horses, slaughter the ones with really bad conformational/temperamental issues. The ones that cant be used for anything. Same goes for cows and chickens and pigs and every other animal on the planet.
                            Seriously? So you think that we don't slaughter people for food because it is cruel so we shouldn't be doing it to animals as well? Really? Is that what you are saying?


                            As far as slaughtering only animals with conformation 'issues', please get real. Do you have a clue what you are saying here? So, we should only slaughter a goat or pig or cow if they have conformational issues and can't be used for anything else? OK, I'll bite. What would these other animals otherwise be used for? People do have to eat, whether you like it or not. And producing food for the population at large requires the ability to produce animals who produce a lot of 'product'. You want people to breed all these animals and only eat the ones who don;t have straight legs?

                            Originally posted by lesson junkie View Post
                            Are they gonna pay the farrier to pull shoes on animals they plan to feedlot? Will they be mucking regularly? Are they gonna be paying for hay like I'm having to do? Will they build safe shelter so these horses do't live exposed to weather? Are they gonna put in fencing to separate mares and geldings?
                            You don't need to be a farrier to pull shoes.

                            I would think that the only economical way to do it would be to have enough land to be able to turn them out and graze them. That will work for certain types of horses that are easy keepers and not oversensitive to the elements and that can survive with benign neglect. If there is enough space then manure becomes less of an issue and you could design shed rows that allow you to drive through with a tractor for manure removal. Enough space also eliminates the mare issue or at least makes it much easier to manage. I still can't imagine it would be profitable nor would it address the inhumane aspects of the act of slaughter itself.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                              Ah, no. Keeping a horse as pet is expensive.
                              That does not equal well maintained.
                              Naturally you can't run a herd in Suburbia and expect a profit, nor in places (like Texas) where there is no rain, no grass and no prospect of either.
                              It seems to be news to some people on here that horses don't need $150 a month just in Smartpaks alone to survive.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
                                Here is the actual press release, before people start to make it up as they go along...



                                So, they will build/adapt a plant to be designed by Temple Grandin, feedlot the horses before slaughter (No starving or not watering them as is sometimes the concern now.), horses will be trucked a shorter distance in many cases and have USDA inspectors on site throughout.

                                There is always going to be horse slaughter, as long as there are "excess" horses.

                                Why attack those who are trying to do it as well as possible?

                                NJR
                                Okay, so all that is going to be looked at and seems like the bases have been covered...except for...WHO and WHAT TYPE of people are they going to hire?? In my experiences of buying orphan foals from the kill pens (back in the day, I don't think you can do it legally ANYwhere now), the guys that work with the horses, hands on, are the dumbest of the dumb. They worked with the horses and were so inured to the pain and suffering of any sick or debilitated horse, it was hard to watch. That was how I ended up with a couple of the foals. I couldn't stand to watch the guys herd the foals around, where they were running into and over each other and into the fences. When I said something about give a little room, they'll get hurt, one guy said 'it was good for them' and immediately ran them harder. I bought a couple out of there that day. Couldn't save them all. Maybe the regulators could keep an eye out and have some sort of power to stop any bullying of a horse.

                                There used to be/is a youtube vid of some workers pushing a Breton so hard till the horse flipped over a gate, right onto his back on a concrete floor. When he got up, he was staggered, of course, and the workers thought it was funny. I didn't. It was the pen right before the kill chamber. These are the kind of dopes I'm talking about.

                                Personally, I don't care to eat horse meat. When I did, I kept getting a mental picture of a Paint horse and that put me off horse meat. However, if someone else can do it and it feeds a hungry tummy, go for it!! If I ever get THAT hungry, I'd do it, but, sure wouldn't be my first choice!

                                As for Bluey, I've been told that using the icons softens a message that sounds harsh, just from a written word. Without inflection or seeing the writers' body language, the icons help 'say' what the author means.
                                GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Sounds great on paper, doesn't it? Let's see, Temple Grandin was supposedly working with Sue before in Wyoming, but she extricated herself very quickly from that before, saying that they misrepresenting her. So she's going to deal with this same bunch again?

                                  Slaughtering up to 200 horses per shift, a possible two shifts? 200 horses in one 8-hour shift equals 25 horses an hour, or a little over 2.5 minutes per horse. How can you process a horse every 2.5 minutes and keep it humane? If they run two slaughter lines I think that gives them a whopping 5 minutes per horse.

                                  I believe that the majority of the projected jobs are very low pay, and from what I heard about the other plants there was very rapid turnover. Do the towns really need 50 really grubby minimum wage jobs?

                                  Environmental concerns were a factor in all three former plants. I believe that horses have about 70% more blood/pound than, say, a cow or pig. Have they explained how they are going to deal with that? I believe the short-lived slaughter house in Saskatchewan got caught dumping huge quantities of blood products into nearby fields or the local river. How often are they going to truck out all of the byproducts of the slaughter process, and what are they going to do with them? A nearby rendering plant? What about disposal of those horses that don't "fit the bill" in some way, too scrawny, too sick, too injured, too dead? Dump them in a ditch somewhere the way some plants or feedlots do/did?

                                  Feedlots are a good idea. However, I believe that cows with their rumens can process far more marginal feed than horses and still gain weight (weren't they trying them on newspaper years ago?). With the price of good quality hay and time to drive out all of the (possible) toxins in their systems and still allow them to gain weight, it sounds like a financially losing process to me. So let's scratch humane feed lots.

                                  Now, I believe that some of the projected meat is to be used for the local ethnic markets. If it is going to a within the U.S. marketplace, aren't there going to have to be FDA, USDA regulations in place to ensure wholesome foodstuffs to the population? As far as I know, horses are not currently designated as a slaughter animal and no regulations are currently in place, including time out for certain residues (the feed lot principle again). Won't there have to be time and money expended to have horses reclassified? Or maybe not--I don't know. If the meat is going to the European marketplace, then the plant will at the very least have to comply with the EU regulations, which I believe are moving to a universal passport for the lifetime of the animal. Have they said how they are going to comply with that? As we have seen, there is marginal compliance at best going on in Canada and Mexico.

                                  I believe that at the time the regulation was passed allowing FDA inspectors that funds for that were not allocated, and in fact were cut severely by Congress. Is anyone really going to have the money available for those inspectors, or do we go back to the company pays their own inspectors with their own money?

                                  Like I said, sounds pretty on paper, maybe not so great in reality. It may come down to the Europeans making out like bandits, the town probably not.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    From the article NJR quoted:

                                    'The horses would have been kept on feed for a period of time to ensure quality, she said. “This produces the quality of meat that is sought after by the European and Asian consumer, and which we anticipate will be well received by specialty, gourmet, ethnic, and health conscious consumers in the United States,” Wallis said.

                                    The plant would initially employ 40 to 50 people and could have the capacity to slaughter 200 horses a day in one shift.'


                                    As I am reading this, they are processing for the United States consumer?

                                    And 200 horses a day? To sell in the US? I have no idea off the top of my head how much meat there is to sell from dressing one horse of 1100-1300#, but 200 of them, per day... seems like way more meat than the US consumers would be interested in.
                                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Can't argue with you on that Sketcher.

                                      Bluey's first language isn;t English. She's been told numerous times that her writing pisses everyone off so to use more icons.
                                      When in actuality what pisses people off is that she doesn't agree with them and that she'll reply on a slaughter type thread repeatedly with info others don't want to hear. So they villify her.
                                      They also don't want to hear that she does more for the environment and animals then probably everyone else on a slaughter thread combined. That would really piss them off, wouldn't it?

                                      Agree with her or not...her information is valid and she has the same rights as others to post her information. Just as those posting ridiculousness here do.

                                      Off to go find a conformationally correct pig to make bacon out of...which I'll then equate the bacon to child abuse.

                                      (damn those pretty pigs and cows nobody is allowed to eat!)
                                      You jump in the saddle,
                                      Hold onto the bridle!
                                      Jump in the line!
                                      ...Belefonte

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                                        From the article NJR quoted:

                                        'The horses would have been kept on feed for a period of time to ensure quality, she said. “This produces the quality of meat that is sought after by the European and Asian consumer, and which we anticipate will be well received by specialty, gourmet, ethnic, and health conscious consumers in the United States,” Wallis said.

                                        The plant would initially employ 40 to 50 people and could have the capacity to slaughter 200 horses a day in one shift.'


                                        As I am reading this, they are processing for the United States consumer?

                                        And 200 horses a day? To sell in the US? I have no idea off the top of my head how much meat there is to sell from dressing one horse of 1100-1300#, but 200 of them, per day... seems like way more meat than the US consumers would be interested in.
                                        I think you've seriously misread this. The quoted item clearly indicates "European and Asian consumer" as well as others.

                                        G.
                                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                                          Can't argue with you on that Sketcher.

                                          Bluey's first language isn;t English. She's been told numerous times that her writing pisses everyone off so to use more icons.
                                          When in actuality what pisses people off is that she doesn't agree with them and that she'll reply on a slaughter type thread repeatedly with info others don't want to hear. So they villify her.
                                          They also don't want to hear that she does more for the environment and animals then probably everyone else on a slaughter thread combined. That would really piss them off, wouldn't it?

                                          Agree with her or not...her information is valid and she has the same rights as others to post her information. Just as those posting ridiculousness here do.

                                          Off to go find a conformationally correct pig to make bacon out of...which I'll then equate the bacon to child abuse.

                                          (damn those pretty pigs and cows nobody is allowed to eat!)
                                          Thanks, I think.

                                          If anyone watched RFD-TV bull sale yesterday, there were some awesome yearling bulls auctioned there.
                                          Those no one would fault much, but the ones bringing the most were those with EPD's, with breeding that were showing they could sire smaller calves that grew fast once born and were grading high when slaughtered, not if they were "pretty" to watch, with lofty gaits, trotting across the pasture.

                                          I will still say, to open a horse slaughter plant with all that publicity?
                                          To practically paint a target sign on that place and the backs of everyone involved, including their families at home and their kids in school?

                                          Yes, it takes someone with little sense, I would think.
                                          Those may not be the best people to be running anything.

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