New slaughter plant application makes mockery of unwanted horse theory?

[Guilherme]

From what I have read, there are no Radical Animal Rights Activists on this thread. Nor any Activists of any kind.

You read incorrectly.

G.

[Alagirl]

It seems to me that what needs to happen is that people need to agree on what constitutes humane treatment, get laws passed that have financial teeth and are locally enforceable.

Ok, think about that one for a second. Maybe while you pour yourself a cup of something and read, uh, a big lick thread, or even the carriage threads.

For instance, it seems as though the double deckers are illegal for horses. Why is there not significant energy going into getting these laws enforced? Is this true that they are illegal? Nationally? If not, then it needs to be made a law nationwide and enforced on a local level, not the DOT, so that if a dd is found transporting horses that way the local or state police can fine them of even impound their rig and seize their horses. Zero tolerance. It seems the problem is lack of enforcement. So, spend the energy figuring out how the law can be passed enforcng the law.

Well, I have no personal experience with DDs but those who have seen them used say - and I am talking about people who I found to have pretty sound judgement - that they are not bad. The idea of disallowing them for transport would stem largely from people who have no experience in using them.
However, as I recall, they are not illegal for transport of horses, only if the destination is the slaughter plant. Considering the amount of rolling stock on the road and the effective personal density of law enforcement....you really think stricter enforcement is gonna happen?

Get a law passed on minimum space requirements for horses that are turned out together. Make is a large enough area so the horses aren't getting beat up in the pens. Make the friggin slaughterhouse own and use a 100 acre pasture where strange horses can get along without beating each other up. Or make it so that they are required to have 1/4 acre per horse in turnout. 4 horses, that's a 1 acre paddock.

wanna go there?
Yes, I am being a jerk. But really, do you want to got there? Yes, some areas have such space requirements in place, mostly in zoning laws. Other areas don't have them. However, there are a few densely populated areas were such requirements hurt the private horse owner. You know, like Southern California, a state already having feel-good laws on slaughter on the books, which are not slowing the industry of meat packers one bit, either btw.

Make them lead horses in by pairs, not shove them all scared to death down a chute or whatever it is they do. Slow them down, make them redesign a process so that one horse is handled at a time.

Scared? See, a while (ok,a few years ago) I saw some pictures of a holding pen outside a plant. the horses were standing around, like they do most of the time, dozing in the sun. Somebody commented 'those poor horses, they don't know what is going to happen to them!' can't have it both ways.
Naturally the world is full of asshats, but generally speaking, calm unstressed horses process faster and safer for the staff. Of course, that does not fit the agenda, and of course there is always the chance of an individual not adhering to the logical procedure methods.

These things above, if regulations can be passed, might make the notion of a large sale operation not seem quite so alluring as it will not be so profitable. Space regulations, if done right, would put barriers to entry for those wanting to go into the business. It would make it expensive. rising gas prices would make it even less profitable. That might foster a move towards more local, mom and pop operations who want to make a specialty product.

Ahhhhh, sorry, but the profit margin should not be in this part of the discussion. You know, making money isn't bad. And oh, right, it's a legal business and yet, the aim is to eliminate it. Please do tell why?
Aside from it being horses, of course, that are being killed.
Or those evil horse killers don't deserve a profit from 'our' horses?

[quot]This is where the energy should be going. Not towards people arguing with each other who in general probably agree with each other on the important stuff. Except for those handful who just have such a visceral reaction to the notion of slaughter. They will never be able to look at the problem in a way that ultimately will make the lives of these horses better until the end. And this is the kind of emotional turmoil the extremists on both sides love to see. It keeps things from getting clouded with facts and prevents an organized front made of a well organized group of thoughtful and educated people with a reasonable goal.[/quote]

And we give up....the system can't be fixed, so we throw it out.....
See, the emotional turmoil is pretty much onesided.
The evil pro people don't tend to get emotional until being called names. I guess it's excusable.
But you are right, the histrionics do and have prevented any type of rational discourse.
You know, when the conferences who try to discuss the matter are dismissed as being all pro slaughter and such things.

[Dispatcher]

You read incorrectly.

G.

Oh? RARA's burn down buildings, harm people and animals, care for no one but themselves and the splash they make in the news They don't even LIKE animals. And they don't own any animals. They are terrorists of a sort.

Had no idea we had such despicable, demented people posting on this thread. They are hiding their psychosis very well. And why would they be on a forum that is dedicated to horse owners and riders? That makes no sense at all.

And as Judge Judy says, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

Seems some are off base in their labeling of others.....

[Nojacketrequired]

If these people are willing to try to make slaughter better, than why not at least give them a chance? It's their money and they KNOW they are going to be under the microscope.

The usual complaints are:
long trailer rides...having a plant in the US should help with this.
horses going without feed and water...they've already answered that question.
Scary chutes etc made for cattle, not horses...they are having Ms. Grandin design it specifically for horses.
Misses....no one wants misses and with chutes designed better and more time per animal allotted, it should happen hardly at all.
No supervision...this plant will have gov't inspectors in it.
Not enough time for the actual "kill"....2.5 minutes for each kill should be lots. It is done very quickly and succinctly. I know I shouldn't compare it to cattle because someone will immediately bring up 100 reasons why horses are different, but 2.5 minutes per head of cattle would be considered a LONG time.

These people are, (Yes, for profit of course), trying to build the best slaughter plant they can. Why not let them try? People complain about the Canadian plants or the Mexican plants yet when someone says they are going to do it better, that isn't good enough either.

You KNOW they are going to be watched like a hawk by every humane group out there. They know it, too.

This group seems to have convinced a number of elected representatives that this is going to be humane, profitable and good for the community, work wise. You can't tell me each of those reps is so stupid that they didn't carefully look into the background and the upcoming plans before voting for this.

NJR

[Bluey]

Oh? RARA's burn down buildings, harm people and animals, care for no one but themselves and the splash they make in the news They don't even LIKE animals. And they don't own any animals. They are terrorists of a sort.

Had no idea we had such despicable, demented people posting on this thread. They are hiding their psychosis very well. And why would they be on a forum that is dedicated to horse owners and riders? That makes no sense at all.

And as Judge Judy says, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

Seems some are off base in their labeling of others.....

If someone keeps standing on issues on the animal rights side, bringing topics and stories and data right out of animal rights sites, use their words to describe what they call abuse, would you not think maybe they are animal rights followers?

I don't see anyone saying wait, slaughter is not inherently any other than a process and as good or bad as we manage it and then be the kind of people that do extremists and terrorist things.
Like come here to tell others to call the driver of a trailer full of horses to threaten him, or go to, say, PETA or HSUS headquarters and try to bomb them or the cars of the ones working there or harass them at home and their kids at school about being AR.

I have been at this much of my life, seen how we have made the world much better for all.
In half a century we have gone from 2/3 of the world starving and no individual freedoms at all to 1/2 now and the standard of living improving for more and more every day.

Sure, there is still so much wrong, but all of us humans AND our animals by default are getting a better deal out of it.
No, the AR extremists didn't have anything to do with that, they are riding the wave and trying to claim turf in the improvements, while trying to eliminate ALL animal use for some strange, illogical ideology and making their millions doing that too.

Sure, some day we won't be using animals, they after all are a handy resource in reality that fits our environment and may not tomorrow.
It has been all of us that have made the world a bit better for everyone, including our use of animals, as we learn more and have more access to more information and resources.

[sketcher]

Ok, think about that one for a second. Maybe while you pour yourself a cup of something and read, uh, a big lick thread, or even the carriage threads.

Yeah. I know. Impossible.

Well, I have no personal experience with DDs but those who have seen them used say - and I am talking about people who I found to have pretty sound judgement - that they are not bad. The idea of disallowing them for transport would stem largely from people who have no experience in using them.
However, as I recall, they are not illegal for transport of horses, only if the destination is the slaughter plant. Considering the amount of rolling stock on the road and the effective personal density of law enforcement....you really think stricter enforcement is gonna happen?

Honestly, I've never seen one either. This is where it gets very difficult to separate out fact from fiction because you read so many assertions and accusations and do not know what to believe. I can understand that in many environments it does not work to pack in a large number of loose horses into a crowded space. So, if that is what happens to get them to slaughter then I can see that its a problem. If it is not what happens, then why all the outcry about the inhumane shipping? Is it the long ride? or the fact that if a horse goes down, the friver does nothing about it? What are the real issues?

wanna go there?
Yes, I am being a jerk. But really, do you want to got there? Yes, some areas have such space requirements in place, mostly in zoning laws. Other areas don't have them. However, there are a few densely populated areas were such requirements hurt the private horse owner. You know, like Southern California, a state already having feel-good laws on slaughter on the books, which are not slowing the industry of meat packers one bit, either btw.

No. You're not being a jerk. I'm just throwing out suggestions. I do not understand the fine nuances of the whole issue. As I've stated before, it is difficult to really understand because there are so many histrionics surrounding it that you can not really get the fact form fiction. I was thinking along the lines of a regulation that would apply specifically to this type of operation, where groups of strange horses are bought in and thrown together regularly. But yeah, I'm sure there is a reason it would not be feasible. But isn't one issue that horses get tossed into crowded pens? How can you not include an increased space allotment to deal with that if the goal was to create a more humane operation?

Scared? See, a while (ok,a few years ago) I saw some pictures of a holding pen outside a plant. the horses were standing around, like they do most of the time, dozing in the sun. Somebody commented 'those poor horses, they don't know what is going to happen to them!' can't have it both ways.
Naturally the world is full of asshats, but generally speaking, calm unstressed horses process faster and safer for the staff. Of course, that does not fit the agenda, and of course there is always the chance of an individual not adhering to the logical procedure methods.

Agreed.

Ahhhhh, sorry, but the profit margin should not be in this part of the discussion. You know, making money isn't bad. And oh, right, it's a legal business and yet, the aim is to eliminate it. Please do tell why?
Aside from it being horses, of course, that are being killed.
Or those evil horse killers don't deserve a profit from 'our' horses?

I am not saying it is bad to make money. I'm saying that the idjits that are against in on any level have the wrong approach. They should be trying to pass regulations that make it more humane for the horses and ultimately that might further their agenda by making the profit margin low enough that it is not worth it.

You know, when the conferences who try to discuss the matter are dismissed as being all pro slaughter and such things.

Yes. And that's just a bit sad. It would seem to me that these are the arena's where real change could occur if at all possible. But you can't make any change when the change is being pushed by krayzee. Change would have to be brought on by horse lovers who recognize the need/demand and despite the distastefulness of the subject, are willing to put on their big girl/boy panties and rationally sit at the table. But that ain't going to happen.

I think those big plants will be back, and as one poster points out, back to status quo. Whatever that status quo was. It's hard to tell what the truth is if you haven't seen it for yourself.

[Dispatcher]

If someone keeps standing on issues on the animal rights side, bringing topics and stories and data right out of animal rights sites, use their words to describe what they call abuse, would you not think maybe they are animal rights followers?

I don't see anyone saying wait, slaughter is not inherently any other than a process and as good or bad as we manage it and then be the kind of people that do extremists and terrorist things.
Like come here to tell others to call the driver of a trailer full of horses to threaten him, or go to, say, PETA or HSUS headquarters and try to bomb them or the cars of the ones working there or harass them at home and their kids at school about being AR.

I have been at this much of my life, seen how we have made the world much better for all.
In half a century we have gone from 2/3 of the world starving and no individual freedoms at all to 1/2 now and the standard of living improving for more and more every day.

Sure, there is still so much wrong, but all of us humans AND our animals by default are getting a better deal out of it.
No, the AR extremists didn't have anything to do with that, they are riding the wave and trying to claim turf in the improvements, while trying to eliminate ALL animal use for some strange, illogical ideology and making their millions doing that too.

Sure, some day we won't be using animals, they after all are a handy resource in reality that fits our environment and may not tomorrow.
It has been all of us that have made the world a bit better for everyone, including our use of animals, as we learn more and have more access to more information and resources.

Wait. Slaughter is just a process.

I missed the posts on this thread where people were told to call the driver of a trailer and threaten him. and the posts about bombing PETA or HSUS headquaters. Why would the followers of those RARA groups bomb their own headquarters? And I missed the posts about being told to threaten children of RARA's.

It makes no sense that RARA;s came on this thread to threaten their own.

[Guilherme]

Oh? RARA's burn down buildings, harm people and animals, care for no one but themselves and the splash they make in the news They don't even LIKE animals. And they don't own any animals. They are terrorists of a sort.

Had no idea we had such despicable, demented people posting on this thread. They are hiding their psychosis very well. And why would they be on a forum that is dedicated to horse owners and riders? That makes no sense at all.

And as Judge Judy says, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

Seems some are off base in their labeling of others.....

You said:

"From what I have read, there are no Radical Animal Rights Activists on this thread. Nor any Activists of any kind."

There are clearly "anti-slaughter" activists on this thread. Whether or not they are RARAs is unknown. Most people post here under "pseudonyms" so their true idendity is not immediatly revealed.

Indeed you post anonymously. We don't know what your are, or are not. This is not a challenge to drop your mask, only an observation.

Don't think that the RARAs only engage in criminal activity. They don't. Remember the Irish Republican Army? They had both a political wing and a military wing. The two were closely linked and worked in conjuction. The RARAs seem to follow the same template.

Judge Judy is often right, but she is also often wrong. The phrase "if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true" presumes that we agree on what "makes sense." If we don't, the phrase is useless.

G.

[Bluey]

Wait. Slaughter is just a process.

I missed the posts on this thread where people were told to call the driver of a trailer and threaten him. and the posts about bombing PETA or HSUS headquaters. Why would the followers of those RARA groups bomb their own headquarters? And I missed the posts about being told to threaten children of RARA's.

It makes no sense that RARA;s came on this thread to threaten their own.

Right, I was in a hurry and muddled several trains of thought so it was hard to follow what I meant, sorry.

I was referring to past post, where someone had a wreck, it was found to be a truck connected to some trader that handled slaughter horses and several were demanding all call the trucker's home and give them a piece of their mind.
Some did, he had to get an unlisted number and his kids were harassed at school.

My other comment was about extremists on both sides not being a reality in this, as no one that agrees that slaughter should not be banned, regardless if we have or not slaughter plants, is an extremist, the kind that then, mirroring the animal rights extremists, would then go persecute and burn AR people and their cars and buildings because they were AR.
That would be extremists on the other side and no, there are none such.

Maybe that made my thought a bit more clear on that.

There is no one that wants to see any animals slaughtered, but that is the way we get some very necessary substances.
No one wants to see people killed daily in highways, but driving is part of our lives, a necessary part of getting around and getting things done and wrecks are part of that, the bad, the horrible part of that, but it is an acceptable risk all of us take.

There are all kinds of trade-offs in our lives, some more extreme than others, some more disagreeable than others, we are working to make our lives better, it is unrealistic to change what we do for very good reasons, unless we have some other way to achieve what we need.

In the world we happen to live in, slaughter is one more way to use our resources, a sensible way to do so.
May not be tomorrow, but it will not be because some animal rights extremist thinks animals be now, because they demand it be so, off limits to humans.
That doesn't make much sense, any more than when any one religion tells someone, in today's world, not to eat this or that.

[luvmytbs]

Alagirl and Sketcher.

Thank you for posting that you have not had any experiences with double deckers.

In the early days at Shepherdsville, DD's were the norm. One had a license plate from Ontario and he was a regular. So yes, they shipped to Canada back then when Cavel would have been much closer.

I was witness to the DD's being loaded on many occassions (normally this occured past midnight when all the auction goers had already left).

It wasn't pretty. Horses banging their heads, stumbling, being hit with cattle prods when they refused to load and so on and so on.

Unsafe floor condition in the DD:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_45891.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_45901.jpg

Holes in the side of the DD which horses could easily kick their legs through:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_85411.jpg

Insufficient headroom:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_85641.jpg

These pictures were taken by a friend of mine in June of 2006 at a different auction.

[JGHIRETIRE]

It's not just "their" money - USDA funding comes from...where?

If these people are willing to try to make slaughter better, than why not at least give them a chance? It's their money and they KNOW they are going to be under the microscope.


The usual complaints are:
long trailer rides...having a plant in the US should help with this.
How does having 1 plant help that?

horses going without feed and water...they've already answered that question.
Scary chutes etc made for cattle, not horses...they are having Ms. Grandin design it specifically for horses.
She has designed one in Canada that works better - however one thing they could all do to make things better is put in a non-slip floor. For whatever reason they don't. That particular point has been brought up time and time again - a simple fix.
Misses....no one wants misses and with chutes designed better and more time per animal allotted, it should happen hardly at all.
No supervision...this plant will have gov't inspectors in it.
Not enough time for the actual "kill"....2.5 minutes for each kill should be lots. It is done very quickly and succinctly. I know I shouldn't compare it to cattle because someone will immediately bring up 100 reasons why horses are different, but 2.5 minutes per head of cattle would be considered a LONG time.

These people are, (Yes, for profit of course), trying to build the best slaughter plant they can. Why not let them try? People complain about the Canadian plants or the Mexican plants yet when someone says they are going to do it better, that isn't good enough either.

A foreign corporation that already has a crappy track record - do we really want to do this again?? Govt. officials would be where??
You KNOW they are going to be watched like a hawk by every humane group out there. They know it, too.
How has that worked in Canada?

This group seems to have convinced a number of elected representatives that this is going to be humane, profitable and good for the community, work wise. You can't tell me each of those reps is so stupid that they didn't carefully look into the background and the upcoming plans before voting for this.

NJR

I think the elected representatives are influenced more by money than voter approval. Look at who backs these particular people.

We already have laws - laws that clearly many have figured out how to get around. Laws for the drugs in horses - laws for how they are handled. Canada is screaming now that alot of times the information that's supposed to be with a horse is magically missing.

I'm for the small local abattoir - big commercial plants?? Not so much

[7HL]

If someone keeps standing on issues on the animal rights side, bringing topics and stories and data right out of animal rights sites, use their words to describe what they call abuse, would you not think maybe they are animal rights followers?

ARFs thats appropriate.

ARAs, RARAs or ARFs????

Who cares all cut from the same mold. Animals do not have rights. People do.

[sketcher]

Alagirl and Sketcher.

Thank you for posting that you have not had any experiences with double deckers.

In the early days at Shepherdsville, DD's were the norm. One had a license plate from Ontario and he was a regular. So yes, they shipped to Canada back then when Cavel would have been much closer.

I was witness to the DD's being loaded on many occassion (normally this occured past midnight when all the auction goers had already left).

It wasn't pretty. Horses banging their heads, stumbling, being hit with cattle prods when they refused to load and so on and so on.

Unsafe floor condition in the DD:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_45891.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_45901.jpg

Holes in the side of the DD which horses could easily kick their legs through:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_85411.jpg

Insufficient headroom:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../100_85641.jpg

These pictures were taken by a friend of mine in June of 2006 at a different auction.

I have seen pictures. Like one poster pointed out above, there may be some cases that are abusive but that does not mean everything is abusive. It doesn't mean it isn't but it doesn't mean it is. And I've seen enough noise from activists to make me be very skeptical of photo's and videos and other claims. So, in a way, the activists are shooting themselves in the foot. They are so far 'out there' that even if the information they were presented were accurate, many people would not know whether to believe them. I am one of those people.

So, your pictures, while very sad (in fact they bring a lump to my throat), do not in my mind do anything to make me think I have any better understanding of what the reality is. I understand the photo's show the reality right then and there. What it makes me think is that maybe someone took the worst picture they can find as an example we are supposed to believe is the norm. Maybe it is the norm and maybe it is not. How am I supposed to know? Go around to all the shippers and show me pictures of all their rigs good and bad or show me all or most shippers rigs with injured and fallen horses getting stepped on and then your photo's will be meaningful in the way you intend.

[luvmytbs]

Laws and regulations, will they be enforced?
The answer is no.

Shephersville, KY - August 2009, just prior to their closing.
Nice trailer from Iowa.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...7130920061.jpg

By law this rig would have to have a DOT # displayed on the cab.
But there wasn't:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...7130920271.jpg

[7HL]

I know State Police and DOT watch around New Holland often. I think the Double Decker issue a non issue here in PA anymore.

Enforcement of existing laws would cover the double decker issue.

Unless the truck is trucks are owned by the slaugter plant it is not their issue.

[marginall]

Why do people get so angry when others want to make things more humane (more respectful of life) for animals? It doesn't affect your life. Why do you get so angry?

[HungarianHippo]

Just an example why Sue Wallis has no credibility with many. My thoughts in red.

"Horses are livestock, and as such are private property, and it is a moral and ethical imperative that horse owners have the right to sell or use their property for any purpose. "

Yup, let's make animal abuse legal.

"Since the closing of the U.S. horse processing facilities through state action in 2007 in Texas and Illinois the upsurge of horse suffering has been horrific.
Documented reports of starved and abandoned horses has risen more than 400% every single year since 2007."

Oh really? Where are those reports?

"I have no personal financial interest in any of the actions which I have sponsored to promote and benefit the horse industry."

Yeah, right. The first pro-bono CEO in the world.

"in the last three years I have contributed well over $60,000 of my personal fortune"

to do what?

"for every one of these onslaughts, we receive at least ten messages from people who thank God that somebody is finally doing something;"

where is the documentation to support this statement?


Link to the statement from which above was taken:
http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/5488

Oy. I could insert comments in red asking for documents and proof of every thing you say. That you don't have footnotes following each sentence doesn't prove you're lying or wrong. It seems clear that there is no level of "documentation" or "proof" that you would accept from anyone associated with the project. You seem to believe every thing these people say is based on deception and greed, so even if they were to present you with more proof, you would reject that as a biased source, plain wrong or misleading, etc. Therefore it is disingenous at best to ask for documentation that you will reject out of hand. Ad hominen attacks reveal a weak and emotional argument.

I have no position on this Sue Wallis or the SH project (though I am pro-slaughter). But in my work, I am responsible to develop commercial projects in mostly agricultural communities. Invariably there are a handful of BANANA's ("Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything" --they're a breed of Super-NIMBYs, convinced that not only is the project itself awful, that the company and county officials are conspiring and lying to everyone. They also invariably cite absolutely false health scare stories they find on the internet, and usually focus on corporate greed. I find the similarities to this are interesting. Also kind of funny because in many developers' experience, "horse ladies" make up a disproportionate share of these groups.)
They are a noisy and emotional handful of people who will never, ever change their position. And in every case, I hear from a lot of supporters in the community who say they think it's a good project and hope it happens, but they're not comfortable standing up in the public meetings and yell and fight. So you know what? I couldn't give a rats ass about the BANANAs-- I don't get sucked into countering their arguments, I don't even try to convince them. You don't feed the trolls. I focus on getting out the facts, the positive benefits, and answering the questions from people who are looking for information in order to make up their mind.

[sketcher]

Why do people get so angry when others want to make things more humane (more respectful of life) for animals? It doesn't affect your life. Why do you get so angry?

You're just a pot stirrer. Go away.

[jetsmom]

If these people are willing to try to make slaughter better, than why not at least give them a chance? It's their money and they KNOW they are going to be under the microscope.

The usual complaints are:
long trailer rides...having a plant in the US should help with this.

They just shipped 2 trailer loads of horses from WI to The border here, that were rejected at the border and dumped. WI is closer to Canada than here. The KB don't ship to the closest place. Frequently horses from Sugarcreek/New Holland were shipped to Dallas rather than IL or Canada when they were open.
horses going without feed and water...they've already answered that question.

The horses shipped from WI to here were not offloaded and watered for the entire trip.

Scary chutes etc made for cattle, not horses...they are having Ms. Grandin design it specifically for horses.
Misses....no one wants misses and with chutes designed better and more time per animal allotted, it should happen hardly at all.

TG designed the SH in Canada that had the most recent non stop videos showing a 60% miss rate the first day and a 40% miss rate the 2nd day. It was billed as a State of the art facility. Have you watched those videos, yourself to decide if it is humane? FTR, the last set of videos were examined forensically, and found to be continuously recorded with no editing.




No supervision...this plant will have gov't inspectors in it.
Not enough time for the actual "kill"....2.5 minutes for each kill should be lots. It is done very quickly and succinctly. I know I shouldn't compare it to cattle because someone will immediately bring up 100 reasons why horses are different, but 2.5 minutes per head of cattle would be considered a LONG time.

These people are, (Yes, for profit of course), trying to build the best slaughter plant they can. Why not let them try? People complain about the Canadian plants or the Mexican plants yet when someone says they are going to do it better, that isn't good enough either.

You KNOW they are going to be watched like a hawk by every humane group out there. They know it, too.


This group seems to have convinced a number of elected representatives that this is going to be humane, profitable and good for the community, work wise. You can't tell me each of those reps is so stupid that they didn't carefully look into the background and the upcoming plans before voting for this.

They convinced them by saying that it is to reduce unwanted horses and prevent abandonment, and help the skinny starving horses. Now they are saying they are going to breed horses, and only take fat healthy horses

NJR

The US doesn't enforce humane laws. I can show you 65 dumped, starving horses out in the desert here that were dumped by KB and the authorities refuse to prosecute. Or read about the horses in presidio, and the USDA vet who was pissed off becuase people wanted him to do something yet he said he was told by his supervisor to ignore it.
Look at the trailer wreck in TN, where they let horses too sick/injured continue on the trip, yet they were rejected at the border.
At our local auction, a vet is not doing the coggins. It's against the law for anyone other than a vet to do them, yet it isn't prosecuted.

[7HL]

The reason for unwanted and too many horses from anither thread...

My question was triggered by the following:

"While I agree that the owner of record has the ultimate responsibility to make sure the horse is in a good place after they stop racing they should not have to do it alone."

The phrase "a good place" has many possible meanings. I was seeking a clarification.

Personally, I would place this responsibilty squarely on the shoulders of the owners. But I would not, then, artificially limit their options. If the options are to be artificially limited, then the public (however one might define that) does have a duty to assist in disposition of animals.

There was a piece on NPR yesterday morning about the TB industry and foaling season in Lexington. It was interesting on a couple of points, but only one is relevant here: there will be about 8,000 foals produced in this season. That number might be to total crop and it might be just in the Lexington area. The report was not clear (or at least I dont' remember it as clear). Only a small percentage of those foals will "make the cut." I think it helps to understand the magnitude of the problem.

G.

Fix this problem. Before complaining about a slaughter plant opening up.