• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What is a fair Wage?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is a fair Wage?

    If you were asked to haul 2 horses 14 hours by yourself, how much would you expect to get paid for said job?
    -Chelsie
    "Hell yes I can ride. I was riding when I fell off!"

  • #2
    I have a friend who hauls as a side job, and she charges $1.50/mile.
    runnjump86 Instagram

    Horse Junkies United guest blogger

    Comment


    • #3
      A rate per mile will NOT work. Take your TOTAL ROUND TRIP miles and calculate your fuel cost....add any applicable tolls...a hotel for the night....food....wear and tear on your truck and trailer and now add an hourly rate for yourself for the 14 hours of driving.

      For the next 14 hours keep your fingers crossed that nothing happens...an accident, doesnt matter if its your fault or not.....you are partaking in ILLEGAL INTERSTATE COMMERCE and when the horse owner SUES you, you will be spending the rest of your life living in a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere.....As will RunNjump86's friend!!!

      Don't say you were not warned.....

      Comment


      • #4
        There is nothing illegal at all about this.

        I'd charge expenses plus 15% profit on expenses plus hourly pay of $20/hr.

        Make sure you are insured.

        Actually, now that I think of it, I'd charge an even $1000. I don't think 280 + expenses is enough.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
          There is nothing illegal at all about this.
          It IS illegal....accepting payment means that you are now a commercial entity...and you will need to have the proper insurance, the proper paperwork, and the proper plates on your truck.

          Not that people don't do it all the time. But it's not legal unless OP already has a commercial operation with the insurance to haul client horses.

          Comment


          • #6
            And commercial drivers need certain equipment in their vehicles - tool box, flares, an orange vest (I'm trying to remember what my husband has in his truck - it's a regular truck but he sometimes hauls a dump trailer with his company logo on it which makes him a commercial driver). He also needed to pass a physical and have a medical card on him.

            Comment


            • #7
              You don't need a commercial license to transport your or anybody else's horses unless the total weight is over 26,000 pounds.

              Over 10,000 pounds and hauling interstate, you do need to follow DOT rules about safety equipment (cones, flares, fire extinguishers) and log books. .

              There is a farm exemption for trips under 100 miles.

              Note that the rules requiring a DOT sticker may be confusing to some in law enforcement. Generally, hobby haulers (think boat and car racers who tow their equipment to amateur races) are exempt from the DOT regulations about log books and physical exams. Also, just because you get compensation for hauling does not necessarily mean you are commercial. If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules.

              In any case, the worse that will happen to you is that you might get a ticket and have to go to court to argue your case. No judge will fine you so much as to make you live under a bridge.

              However, if you did have an accident that was your fault and you don't have insurance, all bets are off.
              Last edited by BabyGreen; Feb. 24, 2012, 11:40 PM. Reason: Additional info

              Comment


              • #8
                Check your insurance...most consider it commercial activity other than reimbursement for expenses, ie. fuel, tolls, etc.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                  You don't need a commercial license to transport your or anybody else's horses unless the total weight is over 26,000 pounds.

                  Over 10,000 pounds and hauling interstate, you do need to follow DOT rules about safety equipment (cones, flares, fire extinguishers) and log books. .

                  There is a farm exemption for trips under 100 miles.

                  Note that the rules requiring a DOT sticker may be confusing to some in law enforcement. Generally, hobby haulers (think boat and car racers who tow their equipment to amateur races) are exempt from the DOT regulations about log books and physical exams. Also, just because you get compensation for hauling does not necessarily mean you are commercial. If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules.

                  In any case, the worse that will happen to you is that you might get a ticket and have to go to court to argue your case. No judge will fine you so much as to make you live under a bridge.

                  However, if you did have an accident that was your fault and you don't have insurance, all bets are off.
                  but aren't you supposed to declare your income?
                  I have CDO. It's like OCD, but all the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In my opinion there is some good advice and some very dangerous advice here on this thread. Suffice to say that you are asking for very big trouble for a relatively small payday. You could literally lose everything if something bad happened.
                    McDowell Racing Stables

                    Home Away From Home

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you are hauling for a fee you better have a commercial auto insurance policy that is based/rated on this exposure, including Care, Custody and Control coverage, or you will be in a world of hurt if something happens because your "personal auto policy" is not going to pay this claim.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                        You don't need a commercial license to transport your or anybody else's horses unless the total weight is over 26,000 pounds..
                        I didn't say that you needed a CDL. Needing a CDL is different than needing to follow certain rules because you're now a commercial entity.


                        Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                        Also, just because you get compensation for hauling does not necessarily mean you are commercial. If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules.
                        I'm willing to bet that your insurance agent would disagree HEARTILY with the first statement. And obviously you're exempt from the rules if you don't declare the income; you're exempt from the rules if you murder someone and cover it up well, too. It doesn't mean that it's right or something you should risk the consequences of.

                        Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                        In any case, the worse that will happen to you is that you might get a ticket and have to go to court to argue your case. No judge will fine you so much as to make you live under a bridge.
                        Live under a bridge, no. But getting caught without the proper insurance or paperwork can come with some pretty hefty fines that will well outweigh whatever minimal profit you get from the trip. Nevermind the potential points on your license that will only hike your insurance rates up.

                        Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                        However, if you did have an accident that was your fault and you don't have insurance, all bets are off.
                        Yeah, and you'll be royally screwed.

                        OP, check out https://www.drafthorsejournal.com/in...es-and-the-law It's an older article, but it's written by an attorney who I hope did his fact checking, and it's easy to understand for the layperson.

                        This paragraph is particularly important:
                        If you haul horses for a fee, you are considered a commercial unit by the United States Department of Transportation and you must follow the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. This means that you must carry a log book, medical card and safety equipment such as flares, triangles, fire extinguishers, etc. and your vehicle must have the required lights, safety chains, brakes and breakaway brake. If you are commercial, you are also required to have a Federal inspection sticker, ID number and certain signage on the vehicle. You do not, however, need a CDL if your weight is 26,000 lbs. or less.

                        It cannot be said enough. IF YOU ARE CHARGING, YOU ARE COMMERCIAL. You can choose not to do the proper legwork to make yourself legal, but don't fool yourself into thinking that it IS legal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hey Mickey View Post
                          If you were asked to haul 2 horses 14 hours by yourself, how much would you expect to get paid for said job?
                          I would say no thank you to the job. Hauling alone for 14 hours is quite a bit of work.
                          Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
                          http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You are ONLY exempt from the USDOT regulations if YOU own the horse...you may then haul YOUR own poroperty. Believe me, your common auto insurance policy will NOT cover property belonging to someone else. Once they find out that you were doing a COMMERCIAL haul they will NOT cover any damage done to your vehicle or trailer.

                            Like I said....Keep your fingers crossed!!!

                            And thanks to those that piped in and ARE informed of the legality of hauling OTHER peoples property.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              BABY GREEN......You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong my dear. If you recieve COMPENSATION of ANY kind, this can literally mean a SANDWICH for payment, you are hauling COMMERCIALLY. EVERY judge in the country WILL agree with this. Look, I know this is done thousands of times EVERY day across the country....Just dont get caught.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Sorry, you are wrong. That's not the wording of the law. And there is plenty of room for interpretation in that wording.

                                Again, I repeat, the worst that can happen to you is a ticket. You will not be taken to jail. Nothing says you have to volunteer that you're doing this for money if you're stopped by law enforcement.

                                If you comply with the DOT requirements (which are not onerous) you can haul for money. Just do a little research

                                And get insurance (the cost of which should be included in the price you charge.)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Run away!

                                  It's just not worth the risk/wear and tear (on you and your truck) and all the problems that can merrily happen when dealing with horses.

                                  Let them hire a professional hauler...no good deed goes unpunished.
                                  "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                                    Sorry, you are wrong. That's not the wording of the law. And there is plenty of room for interpretation in that wording.

                                    Again, I repeat, the worst that can happen to you is a ticket. You will not be taken to jail. Nothing says you have to volunteer that you're doing this for money if you're stopped by law enforcement.

                                    If you comply with the DOT requirements (which are not onerous) you can haul for money. Just do a little research

                                    And get insurance (the cost of which should be included in the price you charge.)
                                    Commercial insurance will cost way more than anything she could charge for one job. The worst thing that could happen is she caused an accident that injured or killed someone and her insurance doesn't pay because she was hauling for a fee so she loses literally everything she has. A ticket would be a celebration by comparison.
                                    McDowell Racing Stables

                                    Home Away From Home

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                                      There is nothing illegal at all about this.

                                      I'd charge expenses plus 15% profit on expenses plus hourly pay of $20/hr.

                                      Make sure you are insured.

                                      Actually, now that I think of it, I'd charge an even $1000. I don't think 280 + expenses is enough.
                                      Baby Green, you are in error in your assumptions. I work in a DA's office and sometimes see these cases brought in by our State Troopers. Hauling for a commercial purpose (i.e. getting compensation) is a commercial activity regardless of weight involved.

                                      The rules you refer to are rules that govern private vehicles or those with an exemption to the usual "hauling for commercial purposes." A farmer, for example, can haul their own production up to 150 miles without a commercial license. Things are bit murky when you start crossing state lines, but in almost 20 years I've never seen a legitimate agricultural load sanctioned. I have seen a few get hit who tried to claim the "agricultural exemption."

                                      Lots of people do this. It's part of the "underground economy." As long as they don't run into commercial vehicle enforcement or have a wreck they don't get noticed.

                                      But there's no way it's in compliance with the rules.

                                      G.
                                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
                                        [...] If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules [...]
                                        .
                                        As an accountant, I have to point out that this part is illegal.
                                        If you make a profit, whether from hauling, training, boarding, or even selling "Flicka", you are required to report the profit on your tax return whether you are attempting to make a profit or not.
                                        You CAN offset that profit with expenses up to the amount of profit, but you cannot claim a loss unless you are attempting to seek a profit with that activity.

                                        (Not saying everyone follows these rules, but at least be smart enough to request payment by cash only -- you'd be suprised at how many people get burned by a quick check of bank deposits by an inquisitive auditor)

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X