Inadvertantly got myself into something I want to get out of - NH/Parelli related!

[Valentina_32926]

I would absolutely say it's not a trianing method you choose to use on your horse, but attend - and then anyone who is interested can ask you questions about how you differ without you having to do any bashing of the names....

This^

[Chester's Mom]

This....

You will find as the club moves along that there will be other instructors and methods proposed that you won't agree with. Classical dressage instructors even It will be o.k, other people won't like the instructors you propose too

The concern I would be putting forward to the club is, that the intention is a one-off clinic, not an invitation to teach on a regular basis. IMO for an adult riding club, this should be the basis of all the clinics and instructors, unless a meeting has voted otherwise.

Having the club members buying special gear implies an on going relationship.

I agree with Dreamwalker... Your group should agree right now that instructors are a one time visitor and then someone (you?) should inform the one invited of that fact. They should be able to do their part with tools the group already has or perhaps at that time the group would like to re-think the invitation.

[JanM]

I agree with Chester's Mom, and the guest instructors should realize it's not a lifetime contract, but a one time demonstration.

[CosMonster]

Since you did already commit to doing it, I would say something like, "After doing some further research, I don't think this clinic is appropriate for my horse at this point in her training." What else you do depends on how far off the clinic is. If it's this weekend (which I doubt since you're still working out the venue, but you know, trying to cover all the bases ), then you should still pay your fee if you aren't able to find someone to step in. If it's in a month, then it should be easy to find someone to fill your spot. Either way I think you should still pick up the person you offered a ride to, if she's unable to find another ride.

As far as your trainer goes, I just don't see how it can hurt to discuss it with her. Tell her all your reservations, sure, but she may be able to make some money off the deal or something.

Basically, as I see it the answer here is to follow through on your word but not bring your horse to the clinic.

[Sonesta]

I once turned away a boarder who informed me that she followed Parelli extensively and that I would need to follow her instructions in handling, care, etc of the horse. I politely told her that I did not approve of their "training" methods and would not be able to accomodate her. Done.

I, too, have turned away potential boarders when I have discovered they are members of the Pepperoni cult. Life is too short to deal with that drama.

As for OP, I'd just tell her that I did some research and decided that, while I might go and watch - and haul the lady who needed a ride - I have decided that I don't really want to participate at this time.

[5]

You offered your trailer.
If it were me I would follow through on my trailer promise and haul but would decline the training and bring a book to read while the clinic is in progress.

FWIW I got sucked into a 2 day clinic with the big P. Wasn't impressed with the training but was in awe at the marketing. a 12$ rope halter going for five times the price, 5K saddles that need special pads to fit etc etc and people bought the junk like they just won the lottery.

After three hours I wanted to scream every time they used the term 'savvy'.

[7HL]

First question the "alter" and starting a thread about NH & Parelli... but some want the attention even as an alter.

If the OP is the founder of a horse club and can only get members that use natural horsemanship & Parelli, and she has issues with both, either she stays, puts up with it or leaves the Club. Or as a founder tell the others to leave. There are plenty of Parelli Clubs and Clubs that have an emphasis on natural horsemanship.

Discussion forums, blogs, FB pages, and even clubs one joins by choice. No one is forcing anyone to join.



Many of us the use Parelli techniques hangout with non-horse people and those that don't use any form of natural horsemanship. If the OP has a problem she should move on. Or she could always come here and gripe about her Parelli friends.

[Sonesta]

Yeah, because I like to give everyone at least a fair look, I have audited over the years the following:

Monty Roberts - completely unimpressed, but he sure was impressed with himself!

Pat Parelli - I, too, wanted to scream. It was just awful, I tell you. Awful. Ego on steroids. And looking at these middle aged women gazing at him like the next coming was just.........disturbing.

John Lyons - actually seems like a good horseman who cares about the horses and the clinic riders, but doesn't try to sell his techniques as anything other than just good basic horsemanship.

Clinton Anderson - meh, decent skills. Cute to look at. Could probably do a decent job training a horse, but his clinic/exhibition was nothing to speak of.

Chris Cox - makes me want to spit just hearing his name. I got talked into letting him use one of my nice warmblood horses (an young 3 year old not started yet) when the person who was scheduled to bring him a horse cancelled (This was at the Lyons Horse Expo thing held in Houston years ago. I was tangentially involved in helping with that show). He spent half an hour making sure that my nice mare always was watching him and turned to face him at all times. He would just look at the mare's hindquarters and she'd spin to face him.

Then, when clinic ended (at end of day when it was freezing outside and pouring rain and I was alone with the mare) he just handed me the lead rope and walked off. Now, I had hold of a mare that would not let me approach her to put her blanket on! She kept spinning to face me. I asked him to give me a hand. He sneered and said "show's over" and walked out. Took me over an hour to get her to stand still and let me put the blanket on. And then another hour to get her loaded onto the the trailer because of his Bullsh*t.

[HowdIGetIntoThisAlter]

Hey now, I'm not a troll. Under my usual Coth name I have over a 1000 posts so I knew putting NH/Parelli in the title would get me attention

But meant to keep it civil & so far I think everyone has been logical & rational, not NH bashing which I didn't want to happen.

I've actually gained respect for NH over the past year, using the "move your feet" technique, back in hand, & one rein stop have helped me come to a better mutual respect with my hottish TB.

That said, I don't like what I've heard/seen about Parelli - and the fact that she listed that as her first influence! THe other turnoff was how she brags on her site about rescuing those poor abused racehorses - as an OTTB lover & former exercise rider, I bristle when someone assumes all racehorses are abused!

Why did I agree at first? well this club is just coming together and at the meetings everyone is so excited, its fun - when someone mentioned NH I didn't want to automatically be a wet blanket, so I agreed lets look into it. It was after the googling that I panicked & posted here under an alter as I'd been encouraging club members to join the Coth boards.

I think you guys did just what I needed. Calmed down, realized I can still be supportive of my new club friends without embracing Parelli myself. Did get my instructor to offer her facilities which she is happy to do to make a fee. Plan to offer to trailer two members & audit.

We have all sorts in this club - a handful of N-P experienced eventers like me, one mom of a GP dressage rider, a vet, plenty of experienced trail riders. So it's not all newbies, just a few that I was worried about "exposing" - but then, as someone pointed out, not like they aren't going to run into Parelli/NH at some point. Might be best to do it while in the company of their more experienced friends right? If they have any questions we can be ready with alternate POVs of other ways to do things. And/or point out that NH didn't "invent" a lot of this.

Our first horsey get together is a Hunter Pace, then the NH clinic, then a dressage clinic so we are doing the multiple coach, multiple exposure thing as others suggested a club should be sure to do!

Thanks for all posts so far and sorry if my OP sounded like yet another NH troll

[HowdIGetIntoThisAlter]

Chris Cox - Then, when clinic ended (at end of day when it was freezing outside and pouring rain and I was alone with the mare) he just handed me the lead rope and walked off. Now, I had hold of a mare that would not let me approach her to put her blanket on! She kept spinning to face me. I asked him to give me a hand. He sneered and said "show's over" and walked out. Took me over an hour to get her to stand still and let me put the blanket on. And then another hour to get her loaded onto the the trailer because of his Bullsh*t.

Ack scary frustrating experience! yeah that's why I shy away from letting my young sensitive TB get exposed to an unknown quantity - most of the club horses are older rock solid campaigners, so shouldn't be able to do much harm even if she ends up a whacko...

[HowdIGetIntoThisAlter]

Btw, so those of you more experienced with NH clinics are saying, a regular halter and a longish lead rope should be sufficient correct?

I will let that leak to spare our members unnecessary expenses on the "majik rope halter" thanks

[Western]

OP, you've GAINED RESPECT FOR NH? Because it's HELPED YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HORSE? Now, you know durn well, them's fightin' words aroun' here!

Sonesta, that story of yours about Chris Cox has permanently set a black hat on his head, in my mind!

People, the rope halter is an excellent piece of equipment: simple concept is that its knots give the human leverage as needed. Leverage is entirely lacking in flat web or leather halters, (not talking about chain lead additions) & these are also heavy/cumbersome on the horse's head. They can be procured for less dineros than what the bnt's sell 'em for, so the merits/lack thereof of the tool itself must be separated from its price. This chronic bashing of the knotted rope halter, dismissing it as a majikal bit of nonsense, with never a reasoned criticism of the tool, is obviously immature. Do highly talented people like Klaus Hempfling need a knotted halter? No. Their talent/skills transcend the need. Other mere mortals have benefitted greatly from the tool, kinda like the OP has, from her additions of NH methods to her horsemanship.

[spotmenow]

Btw, so those of you more experienced with NH clinics are saying, a regular halter and a longish lead rope should be sufficient correct?

I will let that leak to spare our members unnecessary expenses on the "majik rope halter" thanks

A regular (nylon/leather) halter is not going to cut it at any NH clinic, whether it be PP or Buck. Just a heads up. The difference being, non-PP clinicians usually have several rope halters for participants to borrow while participating as opposed to the "hard sell" of PP, Clinton Anderson. (Did you know you can buy Clinton Anderson-approved SEMEN for your mare? )

Personally, I never participate in a clinic unless I've audited and liked what I saw OR my trainer recommends the clinician.
I don't want to spend my time/money or expose my horse to some ridiculous carrot stick wedged in his ribs. But, I'm more the Joe Wolter/Greg Eliel NH enthusiast.

[7HL]

John Lyons - actually seems like a good horseman who cares about the horses and the clinic riders, but doesn't try to sell his techniques as anything other than just good basic horsemanship.

Chris Cox - makes me want to spit just hearing his name. I got talked into letting him use one of my nice warmblood horses (an young 3 year old not started yet) when the person who was scheduled to bring him a horse cancelled (This was at the Lyons Horse Expo thing held in Houston years ago. I was tangentially involved in helping with that show). He spent half an hour making sure that my nice mare always was watching him and turned to face him at all times. He would just look at the mare's hindquarters and she'd spin to face him.

Then, when clinic ended (at end of day when it was freezing outside and pouring rain and I was alone with the mare) he just handed me the lead rope and walked off. Now, I had hold of a mare that would not let me approach her to put her blanket on! She kept spinning to face me. I asked him to give me a hand. He sneered and said "show's over" and walked out. Took me over an hour to get her to stand still and let me put the blanket on. And then another hour to get her loaded onto the the trailer because of his Bullsh*t.

Face it you've been a Lyon's groupie for some time...

Now that he's retired what are you going to do?

You've been griping about COX for some time, you really need to get over it.

And yes I did get my screen name banned off of the Lyons board, because I took issue with a couple of hoarders locally to me, that were on the board. I remained under another screen name for years, which others knew.

[Sonesta]

You are so far off base as to be tottering on the brink of falling.

I was a friend of someone who was a volunteer at the Lyons Expo. I gave her some help with some computer stuff. Then, she phoned me in a panic and said they needed a last minute horse for Cox.

My only contact with Lyons was many many years ago when I attended as an auditor a clinic in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Never spoke to the guy.

Didn't see him at the expo. Never rode with him. Don't have any of his videos, etc.

You are just dead wrong on this one.

And I have told the Cox story once before on COTH. I'll tell it again if I feel it pertinent.

Edited to add: Oh, I did get Lyon's newsletter for about a year - back in the 80s or early 90s, I think. Decent newsletter, though a little too much religious talk for my taste.

[Sithly]

$5 worth of rope from your local hardware store, and here you go:

http://www.aboutyourhorse.com/sites/...iador-knot.gif

50 feet of rope gives you enough for two average-sized halters.

[Western]

...You are just dead wrong on this one...

There's always a first time, right?

[ThreeFigs]

Oh, this is definitely not the first time!