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Gotta Love a straight shooter in politics...

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
    Nice "side step." But you don't answer the question.

    I'm fortunate in that I can bury my own dead on my own land without dealing with the Alphabet Soup. In a lot of other states that is not an option.

    If you you're going to deny an otherwise lawful activity that poses no significant public health, safety, or welfare threat because you don't like it then you have a moral and ethical duty to provide a reasonable alternative. Saying that "they" can take care of it is neither moral nor ethical nor reasonable.

    G.
    You don't consider the huge amount of EPA violations near SH, the drug residues in horsemeat, abandoned horses dumped by KB roaming loose near roads, overloaded trailers being in accidents to be a significant public health, safety or welfare threat???

    Comment

    • #42
      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
      Again, where did I say "ranchers were abandoning horses", as you were insisting I did?
      Changing the subject with other now?
      Pardon me...I should have said "people". I accidentally said ranchers.

      Are you STILL trying to imply you haven't said that lack of slaughter is causing people to abandon/abuse horse? In spite of your quoted posts????

      Comment

      • #43
        Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
        You don't consider the huge amount of EPA violations near SH, the drug residues in horsemeat, abandoned horses dumped by KB roaming loose near roads, overloaded trailers being in accidents to be a significant public health, safety or welfare threat???
        You still don't answer the question.

        The allegations made are in a letter by a private citizen with no substantive evidence to support them. They have all the value of Trent Lott's pean to Chet.

        So, I ask you again, define "low cost euthanasia."

        G.
        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

        Comment

        • #44
          I think this would be a good definition....

          http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.aspx?id=12903


          Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
          You still don't answer the question.

          The allegations made are in a letter by a private citizen with no substantive evidence to support them. They have all the value of Trent Lott's pean to Chet.

          So, I ask you again, define "low cost euthanasia."

          G.
          The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
          H. Cate

          Comment

          • #45
            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
            Define "low cost euthanasia."

            Be sure to include the cost of disposing of a 1000 pound carcass.

            G.
            http://horsehaventn.org/act-of-compassion/

            The program is already in place. I don't remember the exact figure, but I think it's less than $300, at UT. They incinerate the bodies. Now you can just donate, easy as pie.

            Comment

            • #46
              as I understand they only do part of the bodies at UT...not all...maybe the heart and head....

              so most of that fee is landfill costs

              Tamara
              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

              Comment

              • #47
                Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                Pardon me...I should have said "people". I accidentally said ranchers.

                Are you STILL trying to imply you haven't said that lack of slaughter is causing people to abandon/abuse horse? In spite of your quoted posts????

                That you quoted was about our local situation here, where SOME are abandoning horses, yes, since the plants closed and the traders that handled ALL kinds of horses, not just those for slaughter, quit coming and that lower end horse market collapsed.

                You are trying to say, I don't know what, other than what I clearly stated there, in the context we were speaking there.

                I don't know what your point is now.

                You have a problem with your local animal control there not doing their job and you want that to now be slaughter's fault also?
                Go complain to them.

                Comment

                • #48
                  Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                  as I understand they only do part of the bodies at UT...not all...maybe the heart and head....

                  so most of that fee is landfill costs

                  Tamara
                  I am pretty sure they are doing the entire body now, with the new incinerator, but I could be mistaken. It's happened before.

                  Comment

                  • #49
                    Originally posted by katyb View Post
                    I am pretty sure they are doing the entire body now, with the new incinerator, but I could be mistaken. It's happened before.
                    one of our hay customers is failry well versed in the machine form a technical standpoint...I will call tomorrow to the school and find out for certain

                    Tamara
                    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                    Comment

                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                      one of our hay customers is failry well versed in the machine form a technical standpoint...I will call tomorrow to the school and find out for certain

                      Tamara
                      I know we discussed that issue in detail when the euthanasia program was developed, and that the entire body was incincerated is what I remember, but that was a while ago, and I may be remembering the question rather than the answer. It was a long and compicated discussion, with about a zillion wrinkles to iron out.

                      Comment

                      • #51
                        Originally posted by katyb View Post
                        http://horsehaventn.org/act-of-compassion/

                        The program is already in place. I don't remember the exact figure, but I think it's less than $300, at UT. They incinerate the bodies. Now you can just donate, easy as pie.
                        I didn't see an offer to euthanize and dispose of the carcass for $300. I think I saw an appeal for money to fund such a program.

                        Then there's the question whether $300 is "low cost."

                        G.
                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                        Comment

                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                          I didn't see an offer to euthanize and dispose of the carcass for $300. I think I saw an appeal for money to fund such a program.

                          Then there's the question whether $300 is "low cost."

                          G.
                          It's actually $250.00 - that's the cost, the program is funded by donatations, of course, as is pretty much everything, HHT being a rescue. Yes, I think that is low cost. If you can't afford $250 to dispose of your horse, you shouldn't have one.

                          Comment

                          • #53
                            Originally posted by katyb View Post
                            It's actually $250.00 - that's the cost, the program is funded by donatations, of course, as is pretty much everything, HHT being a rescue. Yes, I think that is low cost. If you can't afford $250 to dispose of your horse, you shouldn't have one.
                            remind me,does Nina etal, also send a truck and trailer to haul the animal to the school...

                            I had remembered now the crux of what my customer was saying....the size of the whole horse carcass was such that he wondered how the carcass could fit and THEN the remains returned to his wife (and she did not get the HH service but rather paid full price) were not even of the correct weight or volume to have come as the whole carcass remains....

                            as he is well versed in inceration machines in another line of work....so he wondered where the other <x> pounds of the animal actually went if it was even burnt...

                            Tamara
                            Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                            I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                            Comment

                            • #54
                              Originally posted by katyb View Post
                              It's actually $250.00 - that's the cost, the program is funded by donatations, of course, as is pretty much everything, HHT being a rescue. Yes, I think that is low cost. If you can't afford $250 to dispose of your horse, you shouldn't have one.
                              Your analysis is in error.

                              The cost is the lost value of the horse plus the cost of disposal.

                              If Tamara is right on valuation (37 cents per pound at the border) that would make the carcass value in East TN in roughtly the 25 cents/pound area.

                              So if you have a 1000 pound horse the cost is:

                              $250 (value of the horse) + $250 (cost of disposal) = $500.

                              Is this still "low cost"?

                              G.
                              Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                              Comment

                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                                as I understand they only do part of the bodies at UT...not all...maybe the heart and head....

                                so most of that fee is landfill costs

                                Tamara
                                I called - none of the bodies from the vet school go to the landfill; they are incinerated on site, if they owner does not want the body back. She said that is true from hamster to draft horse.

                                Comment

                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                                  remind me,does Nina etal, also send a truck and trailer to haul the animal to the school...

                                  I had remembered now the crux of what my customer was saying....the size of the whole horse carcass was such that he wondered how the carcass could fit and THEN the remains returned to his wife (and she did not get the HH service but rather paid full price) were not even of the correct weight or volume to have come as the whole carcass remains....

                                  as he is well versed in inceration machines in another line of work....so he wondered where the other <x> pounds of the animal actually went if it was even burnt...

                                  Tamara
                                  I didn't ask what they do with the leftovers after incineration. It's your turn to call, lol.

                                  Yes, transportation is provided if necessary.

                                  Comment

                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by katyb View Post
                                    I didn't ask what they do with the leftovers after incineration. It's your turn to call, lol.

                                    Yes, transportation is provided if necessary.
                                    I would say they may use the ashes to fill in the low spots in their driveway.

                                    Comment

                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                                      Your analysis is in error.

                                      The cost is the lost value of the horse plus the cost of disposal.

                                      If Tamara is right on valuation (37 cents per pound at the border) that would make the carcass value in East TN in roughtly the 25 cents/pound area.

                                      So if you have a 1000 pound horse the cost is:

                                      $250 (value of the horse) + $250 (cost of disposal) = $500.

                                      Is this still "low cost"?

                                      G.
                                      I think actual horses at auction are going for less than $100 in our area, even decent riding horses with papers. If I could stand the company, I'd check it out at the Hall's sale tomorrow, between ball games.

                                      Despite that, I would still consider $500 to be low cost. Again, if you can't afford to end their lives and dispose of their bodies, you shouldn't own animals. If your horse breaks his leg, you have to be able to spend that money, right? Or if you can shoot him and bury him on site, you could do that with the horse in the other situation as well.

                                      Comment

                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                                        Horses are livestock. If Frenchmen want to eat them then that's their business. If Trent (or anybody else) doesn't want their horses to be eaten then don't sell them. Put them down or whatever. There is NO evidence that human consumption of horsemeat poses any recognizable threat to public health, safety, or welfare. Under that circumstance there is NO justification for government action banning sale into that market.
                                        Why not just say that if someone wants to kill and eat their own horse, let them. Why should the government get involved? People forget it is legal to slaughter and eat your own horse.

                                        If you want your horse slaughtered, grow some pelotas and do it yourself. You wouldn't have to buy meat for quite some time which would most likely be a better investment than selling the horse for a paltry sum to a KB. The government has already said it's legal to kill your own horse, and that is as involved as the government needs to be on the subject. Period.
                                        Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                                        Comment

                                        • #60
                                          YES! To Horse Slaughter-Houses!

                                          Get real people. Banning the Slaughter Houses has all but ruined the Horse Industry. People are left with no way out of the financial burden of horse ownership once the animal has become disabled. Regulations say you cannot bury a horse on your own property . . . so, what are people suppose to do with them? Every Rescue Organization you call is FULL, every Foster Home is FULL . . . can you not see the writing on the wall? How do the horses fend in the wild when a cougar runs one down for the dinner kill; do you think that being eaten alive is a fast death? It’s a natural food chain. Horses arn’t going to the slaughter houses for our dinner-table. If the meat goes overseas, who cares; if it goes for dog food, so what . . . it’s a food chain! Our Government does not support our horse fancy interests; it is up to each individual owner. With the economy the way it is, why should I be expected to spend what money I have to support my horse, when I need to feed myself? I don’t hear the same outcry for Cattle, Chickens, Pigs, Sheep, etc.; they are used as companion pets as well as any horse; but, reality is reality. There are far too many horses and not enough individual incomes to cover them and certainly no Grants. You cannot give a horse away these days; come-on get real people!!! Ban together and offer suggestions for a better way to get rid of the unwanted horses, if there is one; but, for right now, the Slaughter Houses are all we got.

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