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Gotta Love a straight shooter in politics...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
    There are documented problems concerning drug residues in horses. Bute has been linked to aplastic anemia. There were 13 documented racehorses with Bute in their system that were followed through the slaughter system in one instance (they tracked the horses from auction to slaughter). There were atheletes that recently tested positive for clenbuterol after eating horsemeat.
    You can find a lot of documentation on it.
    And that is 13 of how many thousand???

    War Admiral, I'll put you up for the Humanitarian of the Year Award for defeating the construction of a local processing facility that would have saved horses from the several thousand mile trip in a truck to unlicensed Mexican slaughterhouses. You are truly a friend of horses in TN.

    G.

    P.S. Note that the above is a sarcastic comment.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
      And that is 13 of how many thousand???

      War Admiral, I'll put you up for the Humanitarian of the Year Award for defeating the construction of a local processing facility that would have saved horses from the several thousand mile trip in a truck to unlicensed Mexican slaughterhouses. You are truly a friend of horses in TN.

      G.

      P.S. Note that the above is a sarcastic comment.
      Rather than oozing sarcasm on an internet forum, why don't you start a campaign for AAEP to offer low-cost humane euthanasia? Don't you think that would be more constructive than hanging around mud-slinging?
      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
        Rather than oozing sarcasm on an internet forum, why don't you start a campaign for AAEP to offer low-cost humane euthanasia? Don't you think that would be more constructive than hanging around mud-slinging?
        There is nothing keeping any vet that wants to do so from having an euthanizing clinic now.

        Maybe the AAEP doesn't agree that they need to now be asking their vets to wantonly euthanize any horse someone doesn't want any more?

        I think in those matters, the AAEP leaves the veterinarian's decisions to them.

        Comment


        • #24
          Got to love some politician's ideas of small government. Only sometimes, I guess.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
            And that is 13 of how many thousand???

            War Admiral, I'll put you up for the Humanitarian of the Year Award for defeating the construction of a local processing facility that would have saved horses from the several thousand mile trip in a truck to unlicensed Mexican slaughterhouses. You are truly a friend of horses in TN.

            G.

            P.S. Note that the above is a sarcastic comment.
            Since they don't test all of the carcasses for Bute (and in fact one yr recently, tested NONE), there is no way of telling. The people investigating followed those horses to slaughter from the track, to show that Bute is making it's way into the pipeline. Not to mention all of the other drugs, banned for use in food animals, that we routinely use on horses.

            RE your comment to WA. Having a local SH doesn't necessarily mean shorter trips. The starving horses currently in El Paso came from WI. WI is closer to Canada, than Mex, by any map I look at, yet they were brought here. Same thing with horses that were bought at SugarCreek being transported to Dallas Crowne when it was open rather than Cavel.


            Bluey- We've been told for years by pro slaughter people that having slaughter available will prevent abuse. We've been told that lack of slaughter is why people are abandoning their horses. In fact, you even stated that ranchers in your area are telling you that without slaughterhouses, they have no choice but to abandon horses (Nevermind that in TX, everyone and their brother knows how to use a gun, and could humanely put a horse down).
            Yet I have 70 instances of "proof" that slaughter causes neglect about 20 miles away from me. And that laws on the books are not enforced because they are "slaughterhorses". If any individual did to those horses, what is happening, we'd be getting them seized, and being charged with animal cruelty.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
              Rather than oozing sarcasm on an internet forum, why don't you start a campaign for AAEP to offer low-cost humane euthanasia? Don't you think that would be more constructive than hanging around mud-slinging?
              Define "low cost euthanasia."

              Be sure to include the cost of disposing of a 1000 pound carcass.

              G.
              Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                Since they don't test all of the carcasses for Bute (and in fact one yr recently, tested NONE), there is no way of telling. The people investigating followed those horses to slaughter from the track, to show that Bute is making it's way into the pipeline. Not to mention all of the other drugs, banned for use in food animals, that we routinely use on horses.

                RE your comment to WA. Having a local SH doesn't necessarily mean shorter trips. The starving horses currently in El Paso came from WI. WI is closer to Canada, than Mex, by any map I look at, yet they were brought here. Same thing with horses that were bought at SugarCreek being transported to Dallas Crowne when it was open rather than Cavel.


                Bluey- We've been told for years by pro slaughter people that having slaughter available will prevent abuse. We've been told that lack of slaughter is why people are abandoning their horses. In fact, you even stated that ranchers in your area are telling you that without slaughterhouses, they have no choice but to abandon horses (Nevermind that in TX, everyone and their brother knows how to use a gun, and could humanely put a horse down).
                Yet I have 70 instances of "proof" that slaughter causes neglect about 20 miles away from me. And that laws on the books are not enforced because they are "slaughterhorses". If any individual did to those horses, what is happening, we'd be getting them seized, and being charged with animal cruelty.
                You are misquoting me there.
                I have not said closing slaughter had anything to do with abuses, just as having slaughter, as your side insist, is causing abuse.
                Abuse happens when there are abusive people in charge of kids or any one animal.

                I have also never said anything like this you attribute to me:

                ---"you even stated that ranchers in your area are telling you that without slaughterhouses, they have no choice but to abandon horses"---

                That is the most absurd made up story I have heard yet.
                Some people need to get their stories right.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                  Define "low cost euthanasia."

                  Be sure to include the cost of disposing of a 1000 pound carcass.

                  G.
                  They manage to dispose of 800,000 carcasses a year of horses that died from means other than slaughter, so they should be able to figure out what to do with others. And all of the horses currently slaughtered would not necessarily be euthanized if slaughter were not available. Irresponsible breeders that continue to breed knowing they have slaughter as an outlet, would be forced to reduce breeding. An example is the QH breeder not far from me that regularly sells their long weanlings to slaughter as a group at the local auction. Thirty five went at once at one auction night I attended.

                  And you can't claim "EPA violations"/poisoning the groundwater, as a reason to keep slaughter. Look at the letter from Paula Bacon, the mayor of Kaufman, when you want to see how bad the EPA violations are from the horse SH's. Or look at the Presidio C4 holding pens where they dump the horse carcasses in the wash that runs into the Rio Grande.
                  This is a photo of the blood runoff from a pig SH-
                  http://consumerist.com/2012/01/secre...pig-blood.html


                  As far as costing taxpayers money, I recently read that in order to fund inspectors for horse slaughter here in the US, it will cost the taxpayer 5 million dollars a year. That money would pay for an awful lot of gelding clinics, euthanasia clinics, and hay banks.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Here is the letter from the Mayor of Kaufman, TX where Dallas Crowne was located to the state Legislator
                    ______________________________________-

                    Former Mayor Paula Bacon

                    City of Kaufman

                    Kaufman, TX 75142



                    Dear State Legislator:



                    You will soon be asked to vote on legislation regarding the commercial slaughter of American horses of which you probably have very little firsthand knowledge. No doubt you have heard from lobbyists and organizations who want you to support the practice, but before you do, you should ask yourself why the residents of Texas and Illinois worked so hard to rid their states of their horse slaughter plants. The answer may surprise you.



                    As a mayor who lived with this plague in her town for many years, who knows what the horse slaughter industry really is and what it does to a community please allow me to tell you what we experienced. The industry caused significant and long term hardship to my community which was home to Dallas Crown, one of the last three horse slaughter plants in the United States.



                    All three plants were foreign-owned, and since the market for horsemeat is entirely foreign, the industry will always be dominated by these foreign interests. The corporations involved in this industry have consistently proven themselves to be the worst possible corporate citizens.



                    The Dallas Crown horse slaughtering facility had been in operation in Kaufman since the late 70's and from the beginning had caused problems both economically and environmentally. I have listed some of the specific issues below.



                    I will gladly provide you with detailed reports from my former City Manager, Police Chief, and Public Works Director regarding odor and wastewater effluence violations at the Dallas Crown horse slaughter plant in the City of Kaufman. The reports reference "decaying meat [which] provides a foul odor and is an attraction for vermin and carrion," containers conveyed "uncovered and leaking liquids," there are "significant foul odors during the daily monitoring of the area," and "Dallas Crown continually neglects to perform within the standards required of them."



                    Therefore, in August of 2005, our City Council decided by unanimous decision to send the Dallas Crown issue to the Board of Adjustments for termination of their non-conforming use status. In March of 2006, the Board of Adjustments voted to order Dallas Crown closed, but the plant was able to tie the enforcement up in the courts until they were finally closed under state law in February of 2007.



                    Dallas Crown repeatedly described itself as a "good corporate citizen." I will be straightforward in asserting that they are the very antithesis of such.

                    ¡Dallas Crown had a very long history of violations to their industrial waste permit, eloading' the capacity of the wastewater treatment plant.
                    ¡Dallas Crown denied the City access to their property for wastewater testing beginning October 1, 2004 until July 6, 2005, despite requirement by city ordinance, city permit agreement, and court order.
                    ¡City staff reported that a $6 million upgrade to our wastewater treatment plant would be required even though the plant was planned and financed to last through 2015.
                    ¡Odor problems resulting from the outside storage of offal and hides over several days persisted not only in traditionally African-American neighborhood known as "Boggy Bottom", but at the nearby Presbyterian Hospital, the daycare center, and surrounding areas.
                    ¡Transport of offal and fresh hides on City and state thoroughfares is conducted in leaking containers without covers.
                    ¡City documents reveal an extended history of efforts to have Dallas Crown address various environmental issues. Reports include descriptive language including such as "blood flowing east and west in the ditches from your plant," "It has been over 45 days [it had been 59 days] and no apparent cleanup has occurred," "Your system has not improved and subsequently it has gotten a lot worse," "Words cannot express the seriousness" of recent violations and the "adverse effects on the wastewater treatment plant," and "Please be sure trailers are secured before leaving your premises to prevent spills," noting also "bones and blood laying in front of the facility," problems with bones and parts in neighboring yards and the attraction of "dogs and other animals."
                    ¡In response to 29 citations for wastewater violations, each accompanied by a potential fine of $2,000, Dallas Crown requested 29 separate jury trials, potentially causing yet another economic strain to the City's budget. We could, of course, not afford to litigate in order to extract the fines.
                    ¡Dallas Crown took 11 months to submit a mandatory "sludge control plan" to assist efficient operation of the wastewater treatment plant though City staff requested it orally and in writing many times.
                    ¡The City Manager advised me that the City would have to spend $70,000 in legal fees because of Dallas Crown problems, which was the entire legal budget for the fiscal year.
                    ¡During this period, Dallas Crown paid property taxes that were less than half of what the City spent on legal fees directly related to Dallas Crown violations.
                    ¡Generally, Dallas Crown has the economic ability to prevail, to exceed the constraints of the City's budget.
                    Dallas Crown had a negative effect on the development of surrounding properties, and a horse slaughter plant is a stigma to the development of our city generally. I have since learned that these problems were mirrored at the other two plants. Fort Worth's Beltex horse slaughter plant also violated Ft. Worth's wastewater regulations several times, clogged sewer lines, and both spilled and pumped blood into a nearby creek (San Antonio Current, June 19, 2003 ). Texas State Rep. Lon Burnam, D-Fort Worth, whose district includes Beltex, and Rep. Toby Goodman, R-Arlington, fought hard against legislation that would have legalized horse slaughter in Texas in 2003.



                    The horse slaughter plant in DeKalb, IL had a similar pattern. It was destroyed by fire in 2002, and rebuilt in 2004. It was charged and fined by the DeKalb Sanitary District almost every month from the reopening until its closing in 2007 under a new state law for consistently exceeding wastewater discharge guidelines. I can provide you with the documentation of those violations. Like Dallas Crown, Cavel refused to pay their fines for years.



                    During this time, I learned that an estimated $5 million in Federal funding was being spent annually to support three foreign-owned horse slaughter plants! And when the Dallas Crown tax records were exposed in the city's legal struggle, we found that they had paid only $5 in federal taxes on a gross income of over $12,000,000!



                    Moreover, the parent company of Cavel has since moved its operations to Canada and continued to slaughter American horses. In Canada they have apparently become even more blatant, dumping huge untreated piles of entrails onto open ground and even using a tanker truck to discharge blood and refuse into a local river.

                    I have mentioned only the pollution issue, but this is but one negative aspect of horse slaughter. I have subsequently learned of a USDA document containing 900 pages of graphic photos that show the horrors that the horses were subject to. Behind the privacy fences of these plants, trucks arrived continuously and on those trucks was every form of inhumane violation one can imagine from mares birthing foals to horses with eyes dangling from their sockets and legs ripped from their bodies.



                    The more I learn about horse slaughter, the more certain I am: There is no justification for horse slaughter in this country. My city was little more than a door mat for a foreign-owned business that drained our resources, thwarted economic development and stigmatized our community. Americans don't eat horses, and we don't raise them for human consumption. There is no justification for spending American tax dollars to support this industry at the expense of Americans and our horses.



                    Sincerely,



                    Former Mayor Paula Bacon

                    Kaufman, TX

                    .

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                      They manage to dispose of 800,000 carcasses a year of horses that died from means other than slaughter, so they should be able to figure out what to do with others. And all of the horses currently slaughtered would not necessarily be euthanized if slaughter were not available. Irresponsible breeders that continue to breed knowing they have slaughter as an outlet, would be forced to reduce breeding.
                      Ummm, well I have some Oldies who will need 'disposal' in the next couple years. I'll be paying for it. Who is this "they"?

                      And of course not all slaughter bound horses would be euthanized. Supply and demand. There is a supply to fill the demand for the end product; it's not just people who get their rocks off processing horses for giggles because there are extras laying around.

                      As for the abuse in El Paso... You can try to blame that on slaughter, but it seems that the fault lies solely on the individual. The checks worked, preventing unfit horses from crossing the boarder. While the current owner is most certainly an asshat, the system is working. Asshats exist no matter what (Catholic church scandal, PennState, dogfighting, etc etc... people are bad), so to assume that this guy is an asshat only because of slaughter is faulty logic. Just like Sen Lott's whole spiel.

                      Really, the original logic presented doesn't bother anyone but me... personal feelings aside?

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by amm2cd View Post
                        Ummm, well I have some Oldies who will need 'disposal' in the next couple years. I'll be paying for it. Who is this "they"?

                        And of course not all slaughter bound horses would be euthanized. Supply and demand. There is a supply to fill the demand for the end product; it's not just people who get their rocks off processing horses for giggles because there are extras laying around.

                        As for the abuse in El Paso... You can try to blame that on slaughter, but it seems that the fault lies solely on the individual. The checks worked, preventing unfit horses from crossing the boarder. While the current owner is most certainly an asshat, the system is working. Asshats exist no matter what (Catholic church scandal, PennState, dogfighting, etc etc... people are bad), so to assume that this guy is an asshat only because of slaughter is faulty logic. Just like Sen Lott's whole spiel.

                        Really, the original logic presented doesn't bother anyone but me... personal feelings aside?
                        "They" is the owners of the horses, and vets that euth/have horses die under their care.

                        No the system is NOT working in El Paso. We have 70 horses left to die in the desert of starvation/untreated strangles, and the authorities refuse to enforce the law. We have an auction, where the Coggins certs are NOT being done by a vet, yet nothing is done. The horses on the East side of El Paso, are not being treated for their illnesses, and yet nothing is done. Their coggins have not been checked. They were transported over the amount of time allowed by the Humane Transport Act, yet nothing was done. They were originally abandoned by the Killer Buyer in Santa Teresa, and nothing was done top the owner. The excuse for not prosecuting is that "they are just slaughter horses and were going to be killed anyway".
                        This is all taking place in the US. Please tell me how having slaughter here, will suddenly change all of this, and have laws enforced. They were not enforced when the 3 SH were here in teh US before.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                          "They" is the owners of the horses, and vets that euth/have horses die under their care.

                          No the system is NOT working in El Paso. We have 70 horses left to die in the desert of starvation/untreated strangles, and the authorities refuse to enforce the law. We have an auction, where the Coggins certs are NOT being done by a vet, yet nothing is done. The horses on the East side of El Paso, are not being treated for their illnesses, and yet nothing is done. Their coggins have not been checked. They were transported over the amount of time allowed by the Humane Transport Act, yet nothing was done. They were originally abandoned by the Killer Buyer in Santa Teresa, and nothing was done top the owner. The excuse for not prosecuting is that "they are just slaughter horses and were going to be killed anyway".
                          This is all taking place in the US. Please tell me how having slaughter here, will suddenly change all of this, and have laws enforced. They were not enforced when the 3 SH were here in teh US before.
                          Faulty logic again.

                          The laws are not enforced is not because of anything to do with slaughter, just as when they are not enforced and horses starve in backyards or rescues.

                          Enforcing laws happens when it finally happens, no matter where abuses may happen.

                          Work on enforcing laws to suit you, that may get you further than keep repeating AR propaganda statements about slaughter.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            You are misquoting me there.
                            I have not said closing slaughter had anything to do with abuses, just as having slaughter, as your side insist, is causing abuse.
                            Abuse happens when there are abusive people in charge of kids or any one animal.

                            I have also never said anything like this you attribute to me:

                            ---"you even stated that ranchers in your area are telling you that without slaughterhouses, they have no choice but to abandon horses"---

                            That is the most absurd made up story I have heard yet.
                            Some people need to get their stories right.
                            Here's one of your posts that you stated that because there is no slaughter, people are abandoning horses- (posted Dec 5th)



                            "Don't know who you are addressing that to, but here, there are no kill buyers.
                            The last years, kill buyers were traders that traded in all kinds of horses, some of which, after trying them, if they didn't fit any markets for resale, they hauled to a slaughter plant.

                            Since the plants closed in 2007 and altered the routes those traders had, they don't come thru here any more.
                            The horses selling around here are strictly local and that market is very bad, for obvious reasons, the lack of pasture and high cost of hay mostly.

                            Now, good competition horses out there winning, that is a very different market, those no one is abandoning.
                            Those abandoned are the backyard horses people bought to have around or for their kids to play with, those the economy has hurt and not having a market for those horses is leaving them with nowhere to go.

                            Then, those owners that are abandoning their horses are just stupid, can't think out of a box, that is why the TV PSAs asking those kinds of people not to abandon, but surrender the horses."

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                              Here's one of your posts that you stated that because there is no slaughter, people are abandoning horses- (posted Dec 5th)



                              "Don't know who you are addressing that to, but here, there are no kill buyers.
                              The last years, kill buyers were traders that traded in all kinds of horses, some of which, after trying them, if they didn't fit any markets for resale, they hauled to a slaughter plant.

                              Since the plants closed in 2007 and altered the routes those traders had, they don't come thru here any more.
                              The horses selling around here are strictly local and that market is very bad, for obvious reasons, the lack of pasture and high cost of hay mostly.

                              Now, good competition horses out there winning, that is a very different market, those no one is abandoning.
                              Those abandoned are the backyard horses people bought to have around or for their kids to play with, those the economy has hurt and not having a market for those horses is leaving them with nowhere to go.

                              Then, those owners that are abandoning their horses are just stupid, can't think out of a box, that is why the TV PSAs asking those kinds of people not to abandon, but surrender the horses."
                              So, where do I say there, quoting your words:

                              ---"you even stated that ranchers in your area are telling you that without slaughterhouses, they have no choice but to abandon horses"---

                              That is a very big jump from what I say to what you posted I was saying, I think.
                              Yep, get your story right first, before putting your meaning in other's posts and insist that is what they are saying.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                You are misquoting me there.
                                I have not said closing slaughter had anything to do with abuses, just as having slaughter, as your side insist, is causing abuse.
                                Abuse happens when there are abusive people in charge of kids or any one animal.

                                I have also never said anything like this you attribute to me:

                                ---"you even stated that ranchers in your area are telling you that without slaughterhouses, they have no choice but to abandon horses"---

                                That is the most absurd made up story I have heard yet.
                                Some people need to get their stories right.
                                And another of your posts, linking closing slaughterhouses with abandonment- (posted Dec 18th)

                                "On the other hand, it is just as short sighted to insist closing plants didn't have any impact, as those against slaughter do.
                                Maybe in their little corner of the world it didn't, but in our little corner sure did impact the cheaper horses.
                                That caused a cascade that reached up and has ended in unwanted and worse, abandoned horses."


                                --------------------
                                There are more posts where you state that lack of slaughter causes/caused abandonment, but I am not going to go find all of them.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  The excuse for not prosecuting is that "they are just slaughter horses and were going to be killed anyway".

                                  In the case of the Presidio horses, slaughter is the official reason why the authorities refuse to intervene.
                                  While I have my doubts that they would intervene if these horses were just horses hanging out in some pasture, the local authourities are the ones bringing the subject of slaughter into this scenerio.

                                  If the pro slaughter side wants to continue to support their statements that all aspects of the slaughter pipeline will be handled humanely, they (the pro slaughter side) should go after those authorities and demand they act according to the animal welfare laws in their jurisdiction.
                                  ************************
                                  \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                    They manage to dispose of 800,000 carcasses a year of horses that died from means other than slaughter, so they should be able to figure out what to do with others. And all of the horses currently slaughtered would not necessarily be euthanized if slaughter were not available. Irresponsible breeders that continue to breed knowing they have slaughter as an outlet, would be forced to reduce breeding. An example is the QH breeder not far from me that regularly sells their long weanlings to slaughter as a group at the local auction. Thirty five went at once at one auction night I attended.

                                    And you can't claim "EPA violations"/poisoning the groundwater, as a reason to keep slaughter. Look at the letter from Paula Bacon, the mayor of Kaufman, when you want to see how bad the EPA violations are from the horse SH's. Or look at the Presidio C4 holding pens where they dump the horse carcasses in the wash that runs into the Rio Grande.
                                    This is a photo of the blood runoff from a pig SH-
                                    http://consumerist.com/2012/01/secre...pig-blood.html


                                    As far as costing taxpayers money, I recently read that in order to fund inspectors for horse slaughter here in the US, it will cost the taxpayer 5 million dollars a year. That money would pay for an awful lot of gelding clinics, euthanasia clinics, and hay banks.
                                    Nice "side step." But you don't answer the question.

                                    I'm fortunate in that I can bury my own dead on my own land without dealing with the Alphabet Soup. In a lot of other states that is not an option.

                                    If you you're going to deny an otherwise lawful activity that poses no significant public health, safety, or welfare threat because you don't like it then you have a moral and ethical duty to provide a reasonable alternative. Saying that "they" can take care of it is neither moral nor ethical nor reasonable.

                                    G.
                                    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                      And another of your posts, linking closing slaughterhouses with abandonment- (posted Dec 18th)

                                      "On the other hand, it is just as short sighted to insist closing plants didn't have any impact, as those against slaughter do.
                                      Maybe in their little corner of the world it didn't, but in our little corner sure did impact the cheaper horses.
                                      That caused a cascade that reached up and has ended in unwanted and worse, abandoned horses."


                                      --------------------
                                      There are more posts where you state that lack of slaughter causes/caused abandonment, but I am not going to go find all of them.
                                      Show me where I said that "ranchers were abandoning horses"?

                                      Let me explain this to you once more.
                                      I have all along said that closing the plants caused disruption in the markets and that is why traders were not coming here any more and horses thru the sales those traders were buying in were not selling.

                                      That because of that, there were "some" stupid people that were abandoning horses rather than finding other ways to get rid of them once they didn't want them any more.

                                      That, I insist, against what you AR people keep saying, is one more reason that your closing slaughter was hurting horses.

                                      Now, you can read what you want in what anyone writes, but I think it is clear what I meant to most other than the handful of AR posters we have here.

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                        Show me where I said that "ranchers were abandoning horses"?

                                        Let me explain this to you once more.
                                        I have all along said that closing the plants caused disruption in the markets and that is why traders were not coming here any more and horses thru the sales those traders were buying in were not selling.

                                        That because of that, there were "some" stupid people that were abandoning horses rather than finding other ways to get rid of them once they didn't want them any more.

                                        That, I insist, against what you AR people keep saying, is one more reason that your closing slaughter was hurting horses.

                                        Now, you can read what you want in what anyone writes, but I think it is clear what I meant to most other than the handful of AR posters we have here.
                                        Another post of your linking lack of slaughter to abandonment-
                                        ----------------
                                        "In our very large area, the whole SW region, the small sales are not getting the horses sold, some not even getting bids and that is a direct result of the closed plants.
                                        Those plants provided a base price for the market, that is gone now.

                                        Those that say the closing of the plants didn't affect the horse market just are not aware of this or choose to ignore what those of us that are seeing that in our regions keep repeating, to fall in deaf ears.

                                        When horses don't have any value, that cascades into an increase in horse abuse and starving cases, with so many people abandoning them, literally or just not caring for them, if because they can't and can't figure how to do different, or because they have other priorities, like feeding their family and the horses go begging.
                                        The same with cattle and other livestock, but at least they are still worth something at the sale barn, before they are left to starve."

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                          Another post of your linking lack of slaughter to abandonment-
                                          ----------------
                                          "In our very large area, the whole SW region, the small sales are not getting the horses sold, some not even getting bids and that is a direct result of the closed plants.
                                          Those plants provided a base price for the market, that is gone now.

                                          Those that say the closing of the plants didn't affect the horse market just are not aware of this or choose to ignore what those of us that are seeing that in our regions keep repeating, to fall in deaf ears.

                                          When horses don't have any value, that cascades into an increase in horse abuse and starving cases, with so many people abandoning them, literally or just not caring for them, if because they can't and can't figure how to do different, or because they have other priorities, like feeding their family and the horses go begging.
                                          The same with cattle and other livestock, but at least they are still worth something at the sale barn, before they are left to starve."
                                          Again, where did I say "ranchers were abandoning horses", as you were insisting I did?
                                          Changing the subject with other now?

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