Diving Horse Act To Return to Atlantic City

[carolprudm]

BTW, saw this
Sue Welsh · Liverpool
The americans are backwards in all cases of animal husbandry and cruelty, they even fling kittens off bridges, for goodness sake, the whole of america should be banned from keeping all animals, until the respect them.

on UK Horse and Hound

[Alagirl]

BTW, saw this
Sue Welsh · Liverpool
The americans are backwards in all cases of animal husbandry and cruelty, they even fling kittens off bridges, for goodness sake, the whole of america should be banned from keeping all animals, until the respect them.

on UK Horse and Hound

I think it's her pain meds speaking....

[carolprudm]

I think it's her pain meds speaking....

LOL, I thought she was off her meds.

[Alagirl]

LOL, I thought she was off her meds.

Well, a couple posts below her rant was her description on how she busted her chin falling on a radiator...

[CAH]

Possible change of heart....


http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/c...9bb2963f4.html

[michaleenflynn]

I originally looked askance at diving horses, but because being in the carriage industry has taught me not to kneejerk and offer an opinion on something I know next to nothing about, I checked it out and changed my mind.

I watched videos where I studied the horse's body language, read the history and excellent safety stats (NO diving horse at AC has ever been injured), and listened to both personal accounts of folks who were involved and/or have witnessed it.

I don't see ANY cruelty, abuse, or neglect, and people do FAR more PROVEN dangerous things with horses everyday across this country. Just because something is bizarre is not grounds for interference.

Therefore, my support comes down on the side of the owner to provide a living for him/herself and the horse.

Here's a good video, sorry if it has already been posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEkPQ...eature=related

[michaleenflynn]

Don't like it at all. It's showmanship, not horsemanship.

Just because you can train a horse to do something doesn't mean one *should* make a horse do something.

People & horses have been badly hurt in diving-horse type shows. Why the unnecessary risk? For what, a few tourist bucks? I also question how profitable such a gimmick is. It was done one year at my county fair. It didn't impress enough people and the act did not return.

If you don't like it, just simply don't patronize it.

A case can be made that it is horsemanship, but even if it is not -- why is 'showmanship' a bad thing?

No horses have ever been injured at AC Steel Pier -- a woman went blind from detached retinas, but continued to do the act.

"Why the unecessary risk?" could be asked about MANY human/horse endeavors -- surely 90% of what we ALL do with horses is seen as "unnecessary" by a portion of the population.

If it is not profitable, it will not survive, simple - the beauty of a free market.

[michaleenflynn]

Agreed. Even if it was done right in AC, under a media spotlight, you know there would be a million small-time crooks looking to cash in on it. That's where the cattle prods, abuse, and one-way trips would occur.

If that happened - and it is possible - then those situations should/would be dealt with in their locality. No reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater {sorry }

[michaleenflynn]

One thing I think is very different between horse diving and other horse sports is that things like jumping, racing, dressage, etc take the horses' natural movements and elevate them. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I've ever seen a horse dive into a pool other than at fairs and circuses?

Sorry, but - so what?

Maybe the rider's and owner's aim is not to 'elevate', but simply to live life as they see fit, providing a living for themselves and their horses.

If there is no cruelty, abuse, or neglect, I fail to see how it is anyone's business to interfere.

[michaleenflynn]

Tabula, that makes sense to me too, but you also don't see wild horses running mach 10 with a rider on their back as 2 year olds either...which arguably may have more severe long-term effects on the horse than jumping into a pool of water. It's an interesting topic and I don't disagree with you that it is unnatural, I just don't think we, as horse people, really have room to be so outraged by this because we do things in our industry that might be questionable too

^5

[michaleenflynn]

I look at it like this. If the horse enjoys it and is not harmed, this would provide a horse and a human with a job.

Exactly.

[michaleenflynn]

I would imagine that in these days, with so many people on "alert" for animal abuse, that at least in AC, they would need to be super vigilant in order to stay in business.

I highly doubt it would stay in business very long. Look at the carriage industry - an industry of horses doing what they were originally bred to do, getting heat. This? The ARAs would be all over it.

I think if the horse enjoys it, why not.

I watched a video after the one posted, and the horse jumped, went up another ramp, and then appeared to then get a grain ration. Not sure but I'm assuming that plays into how they are trained to do the jump.

Good post, and they already are all over it, and the plans have been scrapped -- lots of lively comments here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEkPQ...eature=related

[michaleenflynn]

Agree. We spend so much time hovering over what everyone else is doing these days.

Oh, amen and amen.

[horsefaerie]

Friends posted a petition on facebook against the act. I have responded every time that I saw these horses, up close and personal when I was young and they seemed happy and keen.

If I were not technically challenged I would start a petition against eventing in response. I came up with dozens of pics of horses and riders performing rotational falls and leaping off of steep embankments, dropping into water. Dangerous? Injuries? DEATHS????

The supporters of this petition are HORSE PEOPLE!!!!! What is the matter with people???

They are making money? So what? So are WB breeders whose second job is judge.

I looked forward to seeing the diving horses when we went to AC. I LOVED it.

I also wonder who it is that has all of this time to hound others when they own horses themselves.

[HydroPHILE]

Possible change of heart....


http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/c...9bb2963f4.html

Because this needs to be repeated.

[lorilu]

I would not be interested in it at all. I don't patronize animal acts; no circuses, no zoos, certainly no diving horses.

Paula

Yet you ride a horse, and presumably frequent horse shows (maybe just as a spectator). What about the carriage marathons and cones? Eventing? Extreme trail challenges, and competitive trail riding? Did you watch the jousting show that just premiered?

Would you go see Cavalia?

I know two people with circus horse backgrounds. Both are excellent horsewomen; how else could liberty acts and vaulting acts succeed, without total trust between man and horse?

L

[carolprudm]

I originally looked askance at diving horses, but because being in the carriage industry has taught me not to kneejerk and offer an opinion on something I know next to nothing about, I checked it out and changed my mind.

I watched videos where I studied the horse's body language, read the history and excellent safety stats (NO diving horse at AC has ever been injured), and listened to both personal accounts of folks who were involved and/or have witnessed it.

I don't see ANY cruelty, abuse, or neglect, and people do FAR more PROVEN dangerous things with horses everyday across this country. Just because something is bizarre is not grounds for interference.

Therefore, my support comes down on the side of the owner to provide a living for him/herself and the horse.

Here's a good video, sorry if it has already been posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEkPQ...eature=related

I remember reading the book as a child. The horses dove day after day, point them at the ramp and let them go. There's no way they would have done it if those particular horses didn't enjoy it. The ones who didn't enjoy it were not kept in the act.

[Isabeau Z Solace]

I remember reading the book as a child. The horses dove day after day, point them at the ramp and let them go. There's no way they would have done it if those particular horses didn't enjoy it. The ones who didn't enjoy it were not kept in the act.

It's darned near impossible to cram a horse up a trailer ramp if they really don't want to go. Anyone of this board who is going to claim any depth of experience in the horse industry has to be familiar with some awful 'horsey don't wanna load' scenarios.

If several people + vet with drugs have a hard time force loading an unwilling horse, I can't understand how it could be claimed that the diving horses are being unwilling/'forced.'

And yes, the eventers certainly ought to be concerned about this. A whole hell of a lot more horses have been injured jumping 3' logs than jumping off that pier. How could you defend eventing, which actually does yield dead horses on a regular basis, with something that actually doesn't kill horses?

[Trevelyan96]

I think I would have to see the training program from selection to finish to make a decision for or against.

As in all horse activities, for every successful trainer who can understand a horse's temperament and talent and bring out the best in that horse, there are ruthless hacks who will use cruel force to get a parody of the same result.

The hardest part is sorting the wheat from the chaff.

[carolprudm]

Does anyone ever watch the diving dog competitions? The dogs who do it well seem to love it. My dachshunds couldn't be BRIBED to do that. And no you can't force even a 10 lb dachshund to jump off a dock. But show them a hole where there just might be a woodchuck (twice or 3 times their size) and they are all business.