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Diving Horse Act To Return to Atlantic City

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  • #21
    Don't like it at all. It's showmanship, not horsemanship.

    Just because you can train a horse to do something doesn't mean one *should* make a horse do something.

    People & horses have been badly hurt in diving-horse type shows. Why the unnecessary risk? For what, a few tourist bucks? I also question how profitable such a gimmick is. It was done one year at my county fair. It didn't impress enough people and the act did not return.
    Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Whitfield Farm Hanoverians View Post
      And another problem is that by allowing it to happen at a larger venue, the smaller venues might want to allow it also. Years ago some idiot had a diving donkey at Mule Day in Calvary, GA. I wasn't the only one who sat ringside & booed & told the owner what I thought of his "act". It was a terrified little donkey who was prodded up a steep ramp & then pushed off into the water. Horrible. His little legs were shaking. I told the fat handler to jump off himself, now that would have been entertainment.
      Can't believe anyone would ever want to see this.
      Agreed. Even if it was done right in AC, under a media spotlight, you know there would be a million small-time crooks looking to cash in on it. That's where the cattle prods, abuse, and one-way trips would occur.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by philosoraptor View Post
        Don't like it at all. It's showmanship, not horsemanship.

        Just because you can train a horse to do something doesn't mean one *should* make a horse do something.

        People & horses have been badly hurt in diving-horse type shows. Why the unnecessary risk?
        I'm not picking on you philosoraptor, but how are sentiments like this and others expressed on this thread any different from "traditional" horse sports like racing, show jumping, eventing, and others that carry a huge inherent risk for both us AND the horses? I don't know exactly which side of the fence I am on for this discussion (I'm not outraged but I don't know if I can really support it), but I don't feel like statements like this are valid when we ourselves make our horses do dangerous activities for our own pleasure every day.

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        • #24
          FYI - Wild Hearts Can't be Broken is on FLIX tomorrow a 12:30, and again next week.
          A proud friend of bar.ka.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Florida Gator View Post
            I'm not picking on you philosoraptor, but how are sentiments like this and others expressed on this thread any different from "traditional" horse sports like racing, show jumping, eventing, and others that carry a huge inherent risk for both us AND the horses? I don't know exactly which side of the fence I am on for this discussion (I'm not outraged but I don't know if I can really support it), but I don't feel like statements like this are valid when we ourselves make our horses do dangerous activities for our own pleasure every day.
            One thing I think is very different between horse diving and other horse sports is that things like jumping, racing, dressage, etc take the horses' natural movements and elevate them. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I've ever seen a horse dive into a pool other than at fairs and circuses?
            "You'll never see yourself in the mirror with your eyes closed"

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            • #26
              Tabula, that makes sense to me too, but you also don't see wild horses running mach 10 with a rider on their back as 2 year olds either...which arguably may have more severe long-term effects on the horse than jumping into a pool of water. It's an interesting topic and I don't disagree with you that it is unnatural, I just don't think we, as horse people, really have room to be so outraged by this because we do things in our industry that might be questionable too

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              • #27
                I look at it like this. If the horse enjoys it and is not harmed, this would provide a horse and a human with a job.
                Pro Slaughter
                Anti Parelli

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by aucowwy View Post
                  I look at it like this. If the horse enjoys it and is not harmed, this would provide a horse and a human with a job.
                  Agree. We spend so much time hovering over what everyone else is doing these days. I mean heck they let those stupid Jackass movies come to fruition and didn't worry about every tween dare devil with a video camera high diving off and into things for fun. Matter of fact there are whole shows devoted to show casing when things go badly.
                  "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by aucowwy View Post
                    I look at it like this. If the horse enjoys it and is not harmed, this would provide a horse and a human with a job.
                    This makes sense to me. Besides, if horse diving makes a comeback, THAT ought to take some of the heat off the commercial carriage drivers.

                    I have actually seen a horse diving act years and years ago. There were no cattle prods or whips or anything like that involved. the horse seemed eager to climb on up and jumped of its own accord- there wasn't any collapsing ramp.

                    There are many horse sports that I don't think are particularly safe or "good" for the participants, but I just "vote" with my presence or lack there of.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by aucowwy View Post
                      If the horse enjoys it and is not harmed, this would provide a horse and a human with a job.
                      I agree - but I am suspicious about both the enjoyment and harm aspects.

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                      • #31
                        I would imagine that in these days, with so many people on "alert" for animal abuse, that at least in AC, they would need to be super vigilant in order to stay in business.

                        I highly doubt it would stay in business very long. Look at the carriage industry - an industry of horses doing what they were originally bred to do, getting heat. This? The ARAs would be all over it.

                        I think if the horse enjoys it, why not.

                        I watched a video after the one posted, and the horse jumped, went up another ramp, and then appeared to then get a grain ration. Not sure but I'm assuming that plays into how they are trained to do the jump.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by tabula rashah View Post
                          One thing I think is very different between horse diving and other horse sports is that things like jumping, racing, dressage, etc take the horses' natural movements and elevate them. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I've ever seen a horse dive into a pool other than at fairs and circuses?
                          I watched a broodmare jump off a bank into a pond, repeatedly. The others chose to wallow in from the shallow end.

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by thathorse View Post
                            Thought I remember a magazine article about electric cattle prods as "training devices." IIRC article also mentioned a grey horse named Powderface who was sold to slaughter when pier closed.

                            Article was a long time ago in a magazine no longer in print..."Horse of Course" is ringing faint bells....
                            I remember that article well as I was convinced that this horse showed up in our hack string right about the time this horse went to auction. The grey horse we picked up at the aution had a scar on his coronet band that caused his hoof to grow funny and I think there was mention of something similar in the article - I remember thinking that we had that horse. There was something really cool about this gelding although he couldn't be used for customers - he was not cut out for a hack stiring that's for sure.

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                            • #34
                              I watched the real thing back in the early 60s, didn't bother me then, doesn't bother me now. Sure, once they are aloft, the way the thing is set up, they have no choice. But they also know what's coming when they step on, and offer no indication of resistance or fear or dread.

                              As already noted- not fundamentally different than quite a number of other things we do with horses that 'we' consider acceptable. Slippery slope if you start piacking on one discipline or use and 'but mine's okay,' when in the eyes of some, it's not.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by fburton View Post
                                In which case, you'd expect the horse, left to his own devices, to go up to the platform and dive off by himself (like some horses jump fences). Is that really the case? I can't imagine a horse doing that without a degree of coercion, but maybe I'm wrong.
                                on the other hand though..what do we truly do with our horses that DOESNT involve some convincing and training? horses arent jumping cross country courses by themselves or performing passages.. provided the training is done fairly..

                                I would wager, even in some diving hose training..some training was not gentle..the research surrounding Sonora's troup leads me to beleive the training WAS gentle with her horses.

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by lifesabreeze View Post
                                  I watched a broodmare jump off a bank into a pond, repeatedly. The others chose to wallow in from the shallow end.
                                  She was just born in the wrong era!
                                  "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by spinandslide View Post
                                    on the other hand though..what do we truly do with our horses that DOESNT involve some convincing and training? horses arent jumping cross country courses by themselves or performing passages.. provided the training is done fairly..
                                    You're right, of course. I am just suspicious of attributing "true love" (of an activity) to a horse rather than simply habituation and learning to accept.

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by fburton View Post
                                      You're right, of course. I am just suspicious of attributing "true love" (of an activity) to a horse rather than simply habituation and learning to accept.
                                      True..

                                      I used to ride event horses..and I rode some horses who clearly did not like to jump cross country..they worried and fretted..it was obvious in many of them how unhappy they were.

                                      While I dont doubt..as with any activity..there was some people doing things "the wrong way"..I think..for the most part, these horses were treated extremly well.

                                      Even one of the former pier workers..against bringing the act back..could only say the only bad thing about being a diving horse was they had to be stalled so much.

                                      Sonora actually rode the horses on the beach to keep them limber and such..I dont know if later horses were given this treatment or not.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Whitfield Farm Hanoverians View Post
                                        And another problem is that by allowing it to happen at a larger venue, the smaller venues might want to allow it also. Years ago some idiot had a diving donkey at Mule Day in Calvary, GA. I wasn't the only one who sat ringside & booed & told the owner what I thought of his "act". It was a terrified little donkey who was prodded up a steep ramp & then pushed off into the water. Horrible. His little legs were shaking. I told the fat handler to jump off himself, now that would have been entertainment.
                                        Can't believe anyone would ever want to see this.
                                        Originally posted by Neely View Post
                                        Agreed. Even if it was done right in AC, under a media spotlight, you know there would be a million small-time crooks looking to cash in on it. That's where the cattle prods, abuse, and one-way trips would occur.
                                        This is one of the things that worries me most (Neely I stole some of your post for a FB thread on this topic)
                                        where am I, what day is it, am I still having a good time?

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by spinandslide View Post
                                          True..

                                          I used to ride event horses..and I rode some horses who clearly did not like to jump cross country..they worried and fretted..it was obvious in many of them how unhappy they were.

                                          While I dont doubt..as with any activity..there was some people doing things "the wrong way"..I think..for the most part, these horses were treated extremly well.

                                          Even one of the former pier workers..against bringing the act back..could only say the only bad thing about being a diving horse was they had to be stalled so much.

                                          Sonora actually rode the horses on the beach to keep them limber and such..I dont know if later horses were given this treatment or not.
                                          I've only had one event horse, but he clearly loved to go cross country. He loved to run and jump.

                                          I remember reading the book when I was a child. The trainer looked for horses who were bold and maybe less than useful around the farm. (My event horse had given his previous owner an ulcer when she tried to make him a JR hunter) Horses who didn't seem to like the activity were sold on.

                                          I think one horse did die, instead of a pool they were jumping into the ocean and he got disoriented and swam away from shore
                                          I wasn't always a Smurf
                                          Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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