• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

why is checking a horse for soring considered "overkill"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by katarine View Post
    I am also assuming-please clarify if I am wrong-that if you get a good horse with appropriate bloodlines with the proper gait bred in , then I can take out on trail and ask to gait and they will gait not trot or pace and of course canter(of course like any horse you build up through exerceise.) I really wouldn't need any special pads, devices, body posture(hunched over), to keep them in gait on trail?? Also they should be ok with regular shoes-I shoe my horses-the terrain here is very rocky .

    If you would for a moment, just imagine a car with 6-7 gears
    1 dog walk (just a lazy walk)
    2 good walk/flat walk ( going somewhere walk)
    3.step pace ( almost a run walk but too pacey)
    3.5 trot LOL my TWH trots in the pasture, but never u/s
    4 running walk (4 beat, neutral back, overstride, headnod)
    5 saddle rack (4 beat slightly locked down back head still tail shakin')
    6 rack (see 5 with additional animation and trappy knees
    7 hard pace
    8 canter
    9 gallop

    ok 9.5 gears! LOL with youngish TWHs you do (often) have to help them find that gear you want them in...my 3 YO SSH/TWH that's off in training is finding her rack, and we'll go with that for now. With conditioning, flat walking, walking hills, and time, and body sorting out (she's huge and all legs) she'll (hopefully) get strong enough to really work that back end, get up under herself in the hinds, and run-walk. The real thing is just conditioning and not hurrying. Rumor has it many modern lines are too pacey, but then I see horses similarly bred where one is a walking/nodding fool and the other, is tight-brained and pacey. I have a gorgeous (to me ) modern-bred TWH and as we've gotten him more broke, we've lost some animation and 'fire' but we gained brain we'll find his run walk, because I'm determined too. A quieter minded individual, IMO, is going to be more open to a run walk b/c the back needs to be neutral to pull it off, JMO.

    Seriously- they have a sliding scale of things they can do. I've seen MFTs that were a mess, racker that were total idiots but racked...and few honest to God good running walks. We need a resurgence of those types of horses, so more peeps can see them. and no, Champagne Watchout is not a good example. He's just a shiny one
    Thanks-they sound like a really exciting breed. I didn't realize they had so many different ways to move. That is a lot of gaits. Now I will defnitely look into them. Thanks again...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tkhawk View Post
      I do mostly trail riding so I am interested in gaited horses. before I got mine, I did check out a few. The one TWH I checked out , the dealer put chains on him and had me go out. That was my first experience and so I passed, as I was not sure if it was a natural gait and if I had to work to keep the gait and wasn't going to take the word of a dealer. I ended up with an Arab . Now I have a mustang too.
      For trail I think gaited horses are really good . I like the Peruvians a lot and actually was going to get that as a second horse but felt sorry for the mustang abandoned at my barn so took him over.
      So the only things me and a lot of people I know, know about TWH is the soring and those horses flying around the arena in weird looking gaits-for that is all that is shown. Most other disciplines we don't see those huge stacks/pads and so it is difficult to imagine for the average lay person the purpose behind something like that. Yes abuse happens in every discipline, but at least we can understand the mechanics behind it and see why they are doing it-doesn't make it any better-but at least the why is not there. We can wrap our minds around it and can understand. In the case of TWH most people who don't have first hand experience are probably going to look at it and wonder why. We don't have anything in our field of referance to understand it. On top of that you hear about soring and that 400 contestants packed up and left when the government shows up-to an outsider that is just weird.
      Which is why I am interested in this thread-despite the snarkiness, I have learned quite a bit. For one, that it appears at least some foals are born gaited.
      I am also assuming-please clarify if I am wrong-that if you get a good horse with appropriate bloodlines with the proper gait bred in , then I can take out on trail and ask to gait and they will gait not trot or pace and of course canter(of course like any horse you build up through exerceise.) I really wouldn't need any special pads, devices, body posture(hunched over), to keep them in gait on trail?? Also they should be ok with regular shoes-I shoe my horses-the terrain here is very rocky .
      The pads/stacks as an outsider as someone who has never used them-I think it is always going to look odd- because we have not really had experience so just can't figure out why you need 5 inch pads-but hey it is legal in your breeding group-and you are following the rules-so unless the rules are changed that is your preogrative. (I grew up in a country where rules were really not adhered to and the rich really could bend it to their whims-maybe here the rich do make the rules-but once there everybody has to follow them-I would rather people change the rules than have total chaos-it is not fun.)

      Just would have been a little more informative for us outsiders, if those who pad gave a little bit more info on the reason and why it doens't affect the horse long term-the exact mechanics , instead of picking on folks who make their case against it with personal comemnts. But hey it is a free country....
      But apart from that was really informative-at least for me. Thanks for the photos -that really helped.
      To add to Katarine's excellent answer about the 9.5 gears, I'd like to explain the genetics and show a few more photos. Every horse has a gene pair that determines if it will trot, pace, or do both. So, the TWH will have that gene pair which gives it the ability to pace and/or trot. In addition, the TWH has walking gene modifiers, which give it the ability to do the what is called intermediate saddle gaits, such as running walk and rack. Running walk, rack, amble, stepping pace--these are all four-beat gaits that differ in footfall support pattern and in timing. So, if you buy a walker, you will just have to see what he tends to do naturally, and build consistency in the gears that you want to ride him in. For example, we don't let the show horses rack, but I have no problem with letting my pleasure horse rack at full speed if he wants to. We build consistency through carting the horse and also riding the horse at a dog walk.

      I would like to highlight the fact that walk modifying genes are additive, which means that the more that breeders breed horses with strong running walk to horses with strong running walk, the better the gait becomes. There have been several dedicated breeders over the years that worked to do just that, keep breeding the walk into the breed. This is why I personally breed a lot of Carbon Copy bloodlines and why you see Carbon Copy in many of the pedigrees of WGCs and WCs. There are other breeders and other lines that bred in incredibly strong walk. We have a Delight's Double Clutch mare (Sun's Delight granddaughter) that has an incredible backend. The important take-away point here is that the TWH has had some incredible careful breeders working to develop the quality of the running walk, the reach, the stride, the temperament. So, while abuse is still an issue in our industry, don't let it mislead you as to the talent of the horses. The talent of the horses in not in question.

      This is Sling, one of my flat-shod show horses; he is so incredibly consistent in his gait, he is like a clock that you wind up and it just ticks in time. Sling is a stallion.

      http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...johnnyflag.jpg

      He also enjoys obstacles like the teeter totter:

      http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...GunTeeter9.jpg

      Our horses like to have fun and go fast:

      http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...lashFlying.jpg

      And he does the teeter totter, too, and will jump:

      http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...TeeterTot2.jpg
      http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...lejump_jpg.jpg

      And this is my favorite photo. I've posted before, but I'll post it again, because Flash is flying and his tail is up and he's having a blast. What a difference this is from the stories you read about TWHs barely able to walk and moaning in pain.

      http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...kAtFlashGo.jpg

      Both of these horses will be at this year's Celebration, showing totally sound.

      There is still abuse in the industry, and I oppose it. But I think it is important that the horse world understands that the TWH is naturally gaited, very talented, very versatile, and loves to have a great time.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TouchMeKnot View Post
        In addition, the TWH has walking gene modifiers, which give it the ability to do the what is called intermediate saddle gaits, such as running walk and rack. Running walk, rack, amble, stepping pace--these are all four-beat gaits that differ in footfall support pattern and in timing. So, if you buy a walker, you will just have to see what he tends to do naturally, and build consistency in the gears that you want to ride him in
        Dumb question here - my first pony was what we termed a 'walking horse mutt,' because he could do the running walk. He only fell into it when he was nervous (like the dressage ring, in front of judges ), but he definitely could *do* it. The lady we bought him from purchased him from some yahoos who were trying to 'improve' his gait and I guess make some money on him as a trail horse or something, so we assumed there must've been some Walker in there somewhere. Do only TWHs have this gene modifier that allows them to do the running walk? Saddlebreds and other breeds rack, right?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TouchMeKnot View Post

          There is still abuse in the industry, and I oppose it. But I think it is important that the horse world understands that the TWH is naturally gaited, very talented, very versatile, and loves to have a great time.
          Nobody said they weren't. Your horses are lovely, look very happy, and fun to ride.

          There are many gaited horses - Icelandics, Pasos, 5-gaited ASBs, and so forth. I can't recall seeing any of them presented in the manner that big lick horses, or some lite shod TWHs are. They aren't humped over their backs falling off their hindquarters and hanging onto 10" shanked bits like their live depends on it.

          Look at this little guy go! http://www.photo.lynnesite.com/galle...22451484_ykUbE

          Where is the wavy leg hair and big shanked bit? Where's the horrid equitation? Where's the 200 pound human on the 2 year old spindly legged baby? Where are the chains?

          Or what about this picture?
          http://www.photo.lynnesite.com/galle...21285761_t6eWH

          Here's a bit that's not an ordinary ring snaffle but the girl isn't hanging onto it for dear life with the poor beast's mouth gaped open: http://www.photo.lynnesite.com/galle...22451735_8p5Cj She's got a firm steady contact without going overboard.

          Look - if a person wants to use chains or bungees to train the horse how to pick up its feet - I have no problem with that. We use a lot of gadgets in all discplines to train different things. As long as they're used with compassion and common sense, fine. But my opinion is that the chains should not be in the show ring, and the chains should not be so heavy and used so extensively that you have to poultice legs in Koppertox to toughen up the skin so they don't cause scars. That's just ridiculous.

          Avalon Photography's proof page won't load anymore but they used to have up hundreds of up-close photos from the Celebration show - every class. And it was pretty horrifying to say the least. Even on a lot of the lite shod horses, there were people hanging off the reins like their life depended on it, the horses eyes were rolled over white and their mouths gaped open.

          I've been to a couple of Saddlebred specialty shows and those horses are on FIRE! Very very cool to watch. They are so "UP" and they just charge down the rail with such power and presence. NEVER did I see mouths gaped open and eyes rolled over white. I didn't see oversized people hunched ridiculously over the necks of baby horses. I didn't see wavy haired legs and scars and wrinkled skin. I saw happy healthy horses who loved their jobs.
          Last edited by Auventera Two; Jul. 27, 2008, 11:04 AM. Reason: correction - shank to ring

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
            Nobody said they weren't. Your horses are lovely, look very happy, and fun to ride.

            There are many gaited horses - Icelandics, Pasos, 5-gaited ASBs, and so forth. I can't recall seeing any of them presented in the manner that big lick horses, or some lite shod TWHs are. They aren't humped over their backs falling off their hindquarters and hanging onto 10" shanked bits like their live depends on it.

            Look at this little guy go! http://www.photo.lynnesite.com/galle...22451484_ykUbE

            Where is the wavy leg hair and big shanked bit? Where's the horrid equitation? Where's the 200 pound human on the 2 year old spindly legged baby? Where are the chains?

            Or what about this picture?
            http://www.photo.lynnesite.com/galle...21285761_t6eWH

            Here's a bit that's not an ordinary ring snaffle but the girl isn't hanging onto it for dear life with the poor beast's mouth gaped open: http://www.photo.lynnesite.com/galle...22451735_8p5Cj She's got a firm steady contact without going overboard.

            Look - if a person wants to use chains or bungees to train the horse how to pick up its feet - I have no problem with that. We use a lot of gadgets in all discplines to train different things. As long as they're used with compassion and common sense, fine. But my opinion is that the chains should not be in the show ring, and the chains should not be so heavy and used so extensively that you have to poultice legs in Koppertox to toughen up the skin so they don't cause scars. That's just ridiculous.

            Avalon Photography's proof page won't load anymore but they used to have up hundreds of up-close photos from the Celebration show - every class. And it was pretty horrifying to say the least. Even on a lot of the lite shod horses, there were people hanging off the reins like their life depended on it, the horses eyes were rolled over white and their mouths gaped open.

            I've been to a couple of Saddlebred specialty shows and those horses are on FIRE! Very very cool to watch. They are so "UP" and they just charge down the rail with such power and presence. NEVER did I see mouths gaped open and eyes rolled over white. I didn't see oversized people hunched ridiculously over the necks of baby horses. I didn't see wavy haired legs and scars and wrinkled skin. I saw happy healthy horses who loved their jobs.

            I have some great pictures of our padded horse coming down into the big Oval at the Celebration and another one of our Park horse standing on the rail while the class is being tied---and they were taken by Avalon photography, and believe they are not rolling their eyes and their mouths are not gaping open. We also are not hanging over the reins, and looking like idiots. Avalon photography takes candid, and very unusual pictures. If I can get somebody to help me download these pictures I will do so.
            I'm really trying to be nice to you, but for the life of me I can't understand your obession against the TWH????? I don't like the world of horse racing, but I don't come on here and attack people that do...I'm sure that people that are infavor of it have their reasons, and would not appreciate me come on here "bashing" their choice of horses. I really can't quite grasp your obvious hatred????? It is really a mystery to me!

            Comment


            • Thanks Touch me knot. It is nice to know that they are breeding for the gait. In Peruvians-they started off with the typical Spanish horses that came over and now after a couple of centuries you have a breed that is almost close to guarantee gaiting..

              My BO used to be a paint breeder for a long time . She has retired from breeding for about 10 or fifteen years. She was saying in the old days, you generally look for bloodlines and look for stallions/mares that threw color-but still never a guarantee. But now a days you could do DNA testing and find if a horse is homozygous for Tobiano(she was into Tobianos) -so unless you have the grey gene-you pretty much end up with a paint horse. Just wondering do you have similar tests for the TWH-that can indicate gaits-is there anything like a homozygous gaited horse???Or gait genes work different from colour?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                I am ignorant because i bought a horse i can keep barefoot and he will runwalk down the trail ? Uhhhhhhhh okay color me ignorant. Ignorance is bliss. He is a nice horse even if his bloodlines don't scream WGC. He has never spent one day locked in a stall and will self load to get in the trailer to go on a trail ride. I guess he is blissful too.
                Um no. You are ignorant for coming on here and trash talking about me when 1 you don't know me and 2 you don't know my horses. If you are happy with your horse awesome I'm happy for you. I'm happy with mine and the breeding and training program we have. There is no reason to come on here and attack me to get your jollies. That's what makes you ignorant hun

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                  I'm really trying to be nice to you, but for the life of me I can't understand your obession against the TWH????? I don't like the world of horse racing, but I don't come on here and attack people that do...I'm sure that people that are infavor of it have their reasons, and would not appreciate me come on here "bashing" their choice of horses. I really can't quite grasp your obvious hatred????? It is really a mystery to me!
                  I really don't give a damn if you're nice or not. Last time I checked I'd been wearing the big girl panties for quite a while.

                  My obvious "hatred" is due to the fact that this is ANIMAL ABUSE. It goes way beyond just not being my "cup of tea." Western Pleasure isn't necessarily my cup of tea either. Sure, I love to see a great WP go, but it's not my choice in disciplines. Neither is polo or cutting or reining or racing, or blah blah blah....... But the difference is that many of the training techniques and procedures used by a good number of the TWH trainers are flat out animal abuse. No other way around it. Sorry. Don't like it - ignore it. But the fact is, there are a LOT of people in the world who don't like this stuff - not just me.

                  The United States Government doesn't just go around regulating horse disciplines for the hell of it. The industry wouldn't police itself, so now the government does it for you. Can this be said of any other discipline? I didn't think so. Ask yourself - WHY?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
                    I really don't give a damn if you're nice or not. Last time I checked I'd been wearing the big girl panties for quite a while.

                    My obvious "hatred" is due to the fact that this is ANIMAL ABUSE. It goes way beyond just not being my "cup of tea." Western Pleasure isn't necessarily my cup of tea either. Sure, I love to see a great WP go, but it's not my choice in disciplines. Neither is polo or cutting or reining or racing, or blah blah blah....... But the difference is that many of the training techniques and procedures used by a good number of the TWH trainers are flat out animal abuse. No other way around it. Sorry. Don't like it - ignore it. But the fact is, there are a LOT of people in the world who don't like this stuff - not just me.

                    The United States Government doesn't just go around regulating horse disciplines for the hell of it. The industry wouldn't police itself, so now the government does it for you. Can this be said of any other discipline? I didn't think so. Ask yourself - WHY?
                    you are correct when you say that the USDA had to step in and correct what went on in the past years -----and PAST is the key word here. We were riding saddlebreds back then, and when we switched to TWH there was already a BIG inprovement. You said once that "if I couldn't take the heat---stay out of the kitchen"" Hey, guess what---I can take the heat just as fast as you can give it. I happen to like my "kitchen" and will defend it for as long as I am able. Many people have been anti's and after seeing and riding our horses (yes, the padded,also) have a complete change of opinion. But these were intelligent people that were willing to listen, observe, and kept an open mind---which for some one so young (I'm assuming that you are young) you have the most narrow out look on just about every post that you write. I'm doing mysel a big favor, and I am just skipping and avoid reading anything you post, and I suggest that you do the same on anything that I post.Congrats on getting a computer at home.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Albion View Post
                      Do only TWHs have this gene modifier that allows them to do the running walk? Saddlebreds and other breeds rack, right?
                      No, the walk modifying genes are in all the breeds that do the intermediate saddle gaits: icelandics, fox trotters, Saddlebreds, Spotted Saddle Horses, etc. The difference in their gaits is how they've bred to strengthen the gait, conformation traits, motor, temperament, and so on. It depends how they've mixed in contributions from other breeds and how they've line-bred or in-bred the horses to strengthen particular traits. Saddlebreds can rack and so can the TWH.

                      If you are really interested in the different gaits, there is a great book called Heavenly Gaits, that explains all the different intermediate saddle gaits such as rack, tolt, runnning walk, paso largo, paso fino, and fox trot. These are all four-beat smooth gaits, but they have different support patterns. For example, in the rack, a horse will have one foot on the ground supporting its weight, whereas, in the running walk, the horse always has two or three feet supporting his weight. In a walking horse, to circle the foot around while walking (called winging) is a fault; yet in a paso it is bred in as a desired quality called termino. It is fascinating to learn about all the differences of the gaits and gaited breeds, and even more fascinating to learn to feel them in the saddle. Riding a rack is like flying, riding a running walk, especially a big-lick running walk, is like the horse kicked in afterburners and is going 100 miles an hour straight forward. It is all forward motion, which is so different from bouncy trot that it cannot be explained in words. It is like riding a jet. My newest show mare is Delight's Double Clutch bred (a Sun's Delight (WGC) granddaughter), and she is like riding a jet--smooth and incredibly fast in her gait. I once rode a Paso Fino at a show, and while the pasos don't cover as much ground in their stride as the walkers do, the gait was smooth as glass. There is another book called Fabulous Floating Horses that describes the different gaited breeds that is worth reading if you are interested in learning all about saddle-gaited horses.

                      Originally posted by tkhawk View Post
                      Just wondering do you have similar tests for the TWH-that can indicate gaits-is there anything like a homozygous gaited horse???Or gait genes work different from colour?
                      Both gait genes and color genes are highly complex, and I don't know everything about them. As far as I know, there are no tests for how well a horse gaits. Those of us who breed horses look for a number of things. We look at how well the mare and stallion gait, both at liberty in the field and under saddle, and then we look several generations back, as genes can skip generations, and also solidly bred horses strengthen traits. We also look at conformation. So, for example, the grey horse I showed jumping and on the teeter totter, he comes out of good walking show lines on both sides of his pedigree. On his dam's side, she is by Touch's Macho Man (World Champion), who is by Touch of Mark (World Champion), who is by Mark of Carbon (World Grand Champion), who is by Perfection's Carbon Copy (WGC), who is by Rodger's Perfection (WGC). When you have 5 or 6 generations of horses that walk and walk well, that trait is strengthened and it is a pretty good bet that the offspring will walk well. My grey horse Flash can gait at what seems like 100 miles an hour and if you look at those pictures I posted, he has a HUGE backend for a flat-shod horse.

                      They can test homozygous tobiano because it is one single gene pair. If a horse has both of the genes in that pair for tobiano, then he will always contribute that gene to the foal.

                      Comment


                      • My 3 YO SSH/TWH couldn't seem to find her gait gear other than a broken pace/step pace or a hard pace. One month in with a trainer who knows what she's doing with a gaited horse (AKA not me !) she peddled through two-three racky days then click-click- she's run walking. No speed, but good rhythm and solidly hitting 4 distinct beats. I'm glad she required 4 shoes..that mare is wearing those shoes, LOL! she's getting good solid miles under her belt and will come home ready to just be steadied between too fast/sloppy and too slow/pacey...I'm thrilled.

                        Cordial - don't bother trying to reason or be decent with the PETA's on the board. It's not going to get you anywhere. Just show your clean horse. You have to post pics of your GOOD horses doing GOOD, though. AQHA didn't clean up til they decided to educate their judges and be honest - more honest at least...about their deal. And they still aren't hardly clean. Tails are done, horses hung from rafters, horses tongues about severed from having reins tied to their tails. Hock hobbles anyone??? ANY breed has issues, and it's cute that your main pest loved the ASB show, when ginger and other issues aren't uncommon at ASB barns. Whatever! LOL

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by katarine View Post
                          My 3 YO SSH/TWH couldn't seem to find her gait gear other than a broken pace/step pace or a hard pace. One month in with a trainer who knows what she's doing with a gaited horse (AKA not me !) she peddled through two-three racky days then click-click- she's run walking. No speed, but good rhythm and solidly hitting 4 distinct beats. I'm glad she required 4 shoes..that mare is wearing those shoes, LOL! she's getting good solid miles under her belt and will come home ready to just be steadied between too fast/sloppy and too slow/pacey...I'm thrilled.

                          Cordial - don't bother trying to reason or be decent with the PETA's on the board. It's not going to get you anywhere. Just show your clean horse. You have to post pics of your GOOD horses doing GOOD, though. AQHA didn't clean up til they decided to educate their judges and be honest - more honest at least...about their deal. And they still aren't hardly clean. Tails are done, horses hung from rafters, horses tongues about severed from having reins tied to their tails. Hock hobbles anyone??? ANY breed has issues, and it's cute that your main pest loved the ASB show, when ginger and other issues aren't uncommon at ASB barns. Whatever! LOL
                          I rode Saddlebreds for other people and were friends with some people that owned a saddlebred training barn, and I also took saddleseat lessons. My husband (as a very beginner rider bought himself a TWH trail pleasure horse. He took lessons and started showing. He fell in-love with the Padded horses that he would see at the TWH shows that we went to. He bought one and we still have him and he is 17 years old and everybody LOVES him. (I think even some of the PITA, people love him---and I'm serious about that) I gave -up riding Saddles horses and "got into" walkers myself. I also had a morgan mare that I just trail rode for years--she lived to be 34 years old. We have some wonderful trails in our area.
                          We now have six TWH's...2 padded..one Park TWH...one Lite-shod TWH ...and two Trail Pleasure horses. One is retired, and one is my husband trail pleasure showmare. He goes from riding two padded horses and a trail pleasure horse all in the same show. From one extreme to the other.LOL
                          I still love to watch the 5-gaited saddlebreds---when we are at a show where there are saddlesbreds--I always make time to go see that class. I will try and post some pictures of our horses...I will get some young kid in the neighborhood to help me. Our daughter is away at school, or I would have her do it.. She just "rolls her eyes" at my computer skills---or should I say "lack of skills" LOL

                          Comment


                          • To Katerine

                            I meant to say good luck with your horse------taking them to a trainer when you are having trouble with their gaits is such a good idea, It's amazing how they can get them in "grear"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TouchMeKnot View Post
                              No, the walk modifying genes are in all the breeds that do the intermediate saddle gaits: icelandics, fox trotters, Saddlebreds, Spotted Saddle Horses, etc. The difference in their gaits is how they've bred to strengthen the gait, conformation traits, motor, temperament, and so on. It depends how they've mixed in contributions from other breeds and how they've line-bred or in-bred the horses to strengthen particular traits. Saddlebreds can rack and so can the TWH.

                              If you are really interested in the different gaits, there is a great book called Heavenly Gaits, that explains all the different intermediate saddle gaits such as rack, tolt, runnning walk, paso largo, paso fino, and fox trot. These are all four-beat smooth gaits, but they have different support patterns. For example, in the rack, a horse will have one foot on the ground supporting its weight, whereas, in the running walk, the horse always has two or three feet supporting his weight. In a walking horse, to circle the foot around while walking (called winging) is a fault; yet in a paso it is bred in as a desired quality called termino. It is fascinating to learn about all the differences of the gaits and gaited breeds, and even more fascinating to learn to feel them in the saddle. Riding a rack is like flying, riding a running walk, especially a big-lick running walk, is like the horse kicked in afterburners and is going 100 miles an hour straight forward. It is all forward motion, which is so different from bouncy trot that it cannot be explained in words. It is like riding a jet. My newest show mare is Delight's Double Clutch bred (a Sun's Delight (WGC) granddaughter), and she is like riding a jet--smooth and incredibly fast in her gait. I once rode a Paso Fino at a show, and while the pasos don't cover as much ground in their stride as the walkers do, the gait was smooth as glass. There is another book called Fabulous Floating Horses that describes the different gaited breeds that is worth reading if you are interested in learning all about saddle-gaited horses.



                              Both gait genes and color genes are highly complex, and I don't know everything about them. As far as I know, there are no tests for how well a horse gaits. Those of us who breed horses look for a number of things. We look at how well the mare and stallion gait, both at liberty in the field and under saddle, and then we look several generations back, as genes can skip generations, and also solidly bred horses strengthen traits. We also look at conformation. So, for example, the grey horse I showed jumping and on the teeter totter, he comes out of good walking show lines on both sides of his pedigree. On his dam's side, she is by Touch's Macho Man (World Champion), who is by Touch of Mark (World Champion), who is by Mark of Carbon (World Grand Champion), who is by Perfection's Carbon Copy (WGC), who is by Rodger's Perfection (WGC). When you have 5 or 6 generations of horses that walk and walk well, that trait is strengthened and it is a pretty good bet that the offspring will walk well. My grey horse Flash can gait at what seems like 100 miles an hour and if you look at those pictures I posted, he has a HUGE backend for a flat-shod horse.

                              They can test homozygous tobiano because it is one single gene pair. If a horse has both of the genes in that pair for tobiano, then he will always contribute that gene to the foal.

                              Thanks-I love breeding -be they horses or dogs or even roses. I just think it is really nice to actually strive and breed and actually get what you are looking for. Very interesting stuff-thank You...

                              Originally posted by katarine View Post
                              My 3 YO SSH/TWH couldn't seem to find her gait gear other than a broken pace/step pace or a hard pace. One month in with a trainer who knows what she's doing with a gaited horse (AKA not me !) she peddled through two-three racky days then click-click- she's run walking. No speed, but good rhythm and solidly hitting 4 distinct beats. I'm glad she required 4 shoes..that mare is wearing those shoes, LOL! she's getting good solid miles under her belt and will come home ready to just be steadied between too fast/sloppy and too slow/pacey...I'm thrilled.

                              Cordial - don't bother trying to reason or be decent with the PETA's on the board. It's not going to get you anywhere. Just show your clean horse. You have to post pics of your GOOD horses doing GOOD, though. AQHA didn't clean up til they decided to educate their judges and be honest - more honest at least...about their deal. And they still aren't hardly clean. Tails are done, horses hung from rafters, horses tongues about severed from having reins tied to their tails. Hock hobbles anyone??? ANY breed has issues, and it's cute that your main pest loved the ASB show, when ginger and other issues aren't uncommon at ASB barns. Whatever! LOL
                              So I am assuming this is what they call being "set in gait". Before I bought my Arab , I was looking at ads for several gaited ones, I saw the term "set in gait". I did not undersatand what it meant-so I am assuming, it is basically a trainer fine tuning and kind of helping the horse find its gait and after that when you get on the horse, the horse knows that gait and all you give is the cue??

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X