My fortune made ... easy millions the gypsy vanner way

[JuniorJumper01]

Vanner, are you Dennis Thompson?

Pictures
Split Creek Farm

[Vanner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
Dennis who exactly are the gypsies in England that are breeding these horses. Names and locations?

Is the registry complete with pedigrees available online?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Black Market Radio]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigbay:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanner:
The true breed is legitimate, amazing and wonderful. Just ask for the 19 page Vanner Handbook.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, no offense meant towards the nature of your post, Vanner, but that line reminded me of an old poster we used to have here called FIGJAM. Her screen name stood for "F*** I'm good, just ask me!"



"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLOL!!! Whatever happend to figjam, anyway?

Devilpups
The Walrus was Paul...

[Vanner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
Dennis who exactly are the gypsies in England that are breeding these horses. Names and locations?

Is the registry complete with pedigrees available online?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I am jsut figuring out how to use this forum.
The registry is of course complete with pedigrees, but not currently on line. SOme pedigrees are as simple as mother and father and some are six to seven generations on both sides.A horse does not have to have heritage at all to be accepted, it has to have a look and a temperment that fits the breeds profile. We also have a division for what are called Gypsy horses. These are horses that are typically lacking any heritage and also lacking some physical characteristic inherrent in the breed but they are still a Gypsy type filly or mare. We do not accept colts or stallions from this category. Thes Gypsy mares can be bred to certified Vanner stallions in a breeding up program. Their filly babies can then become certified Vanners when mature. All colts from these breedings are to be gelded. This allows good people that have purchased a mare or filly without really understanding the breed an opportunity to breed up and be involved with the breed. There are Gypsies that are called settled and their are Gypsies that are still quite nomadic.Cindy and I were the first Americans to attend a 300 year old Gypsy Horse fair in an effort to understand Gypsies and their horses. We spent ten days there and documented contact inpormation for many, Gypsies that either purchased or sold quality looking horses. We then visited those Gypsies for the next two years before we bought the first horse. We wanted to imtimately understand their horses first. We then devoted the next two years to purchasing 14 genetically known fillies that represented five or six of the best bloodlines in England and two proven stallions. We have never published contact information on these people for a couple of reason. One is that if we did we would very likely never be welcome again. We have always tried to be culturally sensitive and not your average overly agressive Americans. I will tell you that there were several phenominons that made our effort possible and one was technology. It would not have been possible to understand this breed or stay in touch with breeders without a phenomenon called a Cell phone. Dennis

[Vanner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
Vanner, are you Dennis Thompson?

Yes


http://community.webshots.com/user/juniorjumper01
http://www.splitcreekfarm
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[silver]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We have never published contact information on these people for a couple of reason. One is that if we did we would very likely never be welcome again. We have always tried to be culturally sensitive and not your average overly agressive Americans <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't understand why posting contact information would be so offensive to the English breeders?

[JuniorJumper01]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanner:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
Vanner, are you Dennis Thompson?

Yes
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My aunt (Joy Flanagan) bought Crown Darby's Bali from you and Cindy a few years ago I was there when Bali was purchased, but I doubt you remember How is everything going up in Ocala for you?

Pictures
Split Creek Farm

[Vanner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We have never published contact information on these people for a couple of reason. One is that if we did we would very likely never be welcome again. We have always tried to be culturally sensitive and not your average overly agressive Americans <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't understand why posting contact information would be so offensive to the
English breeders?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are talking about Gypsies not English breeders. I have never met a non Gypsy breeder that imtimately understands this breed. When we purchased and imported BAt & Dolly the first two VAnner fillies in North America we were helped by an Englishman that was born and raised in England, grew up around Gypsies all his life, drove the big hitches for Courage Brewery ( the equivalent to Budweiser in America) and was a professional horseman for over thirty years specializing in Shires. He was blown away by what he saw when he saw Bat & Dolly, Cushti Bok and The Gypsy king. He had no clue that Gypsies had horses that were so well bred and definitive looking. There is no system like you would think about that exists in America or any mainstream society. Gypsies dont have farms,and typically do not read or write. They do not advertise in anything, and often have no use for mainstream society and vice versa. Prejudice was a major ingredient in this breed going unnoticed and understood for so long. Prejudice was only one ingredient.

[Vanner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanner:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
Vanner, are you Dennis Thompson?

Yes
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My aunt (Joy Flanagan) bought Crown Darby's Bali from you and Cindy a few years ago I was there when Bali was purchased, but I doubt you remember How is everything going up in Ocala for you?

Hi there, I have a picture of Bali as a yearling that speaks volumes about the breed and it's genetics. ANyone can write me at GVH@@aol.com and I will send it. Bali is a daughter of Cushti Bok and Crown Darby who is a daughter of The Gypsy King and a georgous mare that was killed on a railraod track in England. It is common for Gypsies to use the side of railroad tracks to stake their horses. Sometimes they get loose and disasters happen.

Tell Joy I said Hay or should I say Hey.
http://community.webshots.com/user/juniorjumper01
http://www.splitcreekfarm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[silver]

OK, I don't understand how posting the contact info would be offensive to the Gypsy breeders. In England.

I'm going to be in England next month and going to see these might be a neat field trip.

[SandyUHC]

Silver, look up to the post above where he answered you. He does not have breeder contacts, he has Gypsy contacts and he is not going to violate their privacy. Maybe you can do an internet search for breeders in England just like you could do a search for breeders here and would likely find Dennis. It sounds like you may be able to visit a breeder but would have a hard time catching up with the Gypsies they bought their stock from.

[Galileo1998]

Well I've been to the Appleby Gypsy Horse Fair in England a few times which is supposed to be the biggest. I did see some attractive colourful horses. I didn't see any evidence of a breeding program other than a bunch of loose horses running around together. As for "Gypsy contacts"...well, by their very nature Gypsy's don't have a "contact". They move around all of the time, have no fixed address and I'm assuming no internet

[JuniorJumper01]

Dennis,

Thank you so much for the kind words about Bali; I'll definitely let Joy know that I've been talking to you. She adores Bali and took her to a show at the fairgrounds in January. The spectators loved her As soon as we get some recent pictures of Bali, I'll have Joy send them your way

Pictures
Split Creek Farm

[Vanner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Galileo1998:
Well I've been to the Appleby Gypsy Horse Fair in England a few times which is supposed to be the biggest. I did see some attractive colourful horses. I didn't see any evidence of a breeding program other than a bunch of loose horses running around together. As for "Gypsy contacts"...well, by their very nature Gypsy's don't have a "contact". They move around all of the time, have no fixed address and I'm assuming no internet <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The breeding program clearly does not exist at a horse fair but the horses that are the result of a breeding program do exist at Appleby and may or may not exist at another horse fair. You are corret Gypsies do move around all the time and they certainly are not on the Internet, but they do have a cell phone.
You have to look at the quality horses and want to understand them. Dennis

[Vanner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
Dennis,

Thank you so much for the kind words about Bali; I'll definitely let Joy know that I've been talking to you. She _adores_ Bali and took her to a show at the fairgrounds in January. The spectators loved her As soon as we get some recent pictures of Bali, I'll have Joy send them your way

The breed is defined by the passion that it has the ability to evoke. By that definition Bali is a wonderful example of the breed. I look forward to seeing her pictures.

http://community.webshots.com/user/juniorjumper01
http://www.splitcreekfarm
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[nightsong]

I'm happy to see some positive information (emphasis on BOTH of those words) show up. I've ADMIRED these horses/ponies on the intrnet and thought I would greatly like to have one or some.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Love is all there is

[FairWeather]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by N103:
Now wait just a minute &lt;snip&gt; Come on now, in this country, at least on the east coast, all you hear is "TB TB TB", and more recently "imported warmbood",etc.

A lot of TB's, even registered ex-racers, have bad conformation. They can be insane, nervous, accident prone, and sometimes dangerous. But-despite this, everyone is proud to say that they have one. That's marketing right there <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you KIDDING ME? Do you know how hard we work to 'get the word out' that OTTB's make nice horses? Do you know HOW MANY prejudices they face? Sorry, in my end of the world, its Warmblood warmblood warmblood. Why else would we have to buy nice sound horses for 300$ a piece??

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather
CANTER MidAtlantic

[Natty Dread]

The reason there is no "contact" information for these "Gypsy breeders" is that the US buyers don't want them to know how much they are selling these horses for over here. It would screw up their deal.

Those price figures that were thrown around earlier are very interesting, however, I am certain not one single "Gypsy Breeder" was even remotely involved in the giving/receiving of those prices.

These are Colored Draft horses/ponies. They are no more magical then any other horse. They probably make excellent driving horses because, well, the people that have had them all along drove them. Its not exactly rocket science.

[Shire]

I would like to address a previous post regarding the larger boned breeds (Gypsy Horses) being more prone to arthritis from jumping.
It's just the opposite. Let's look at the breeding down of bone in the TB's for comparison. Most track horses don't have a long span of success on the track because of the over use and small bone that breeders have created in this breed. Now when you look at OTTB's it's common to find bone chips, fractures, etc. Hunter/jumper people are often sifting through these horses to find those that can withstand the pressures and concussion of jumping. You have to have solid and strong bones to manage the concussion of fence work.
By that same argument, why do you think that the hunter/jumper world has gone to cross breds? Shire/TBs (if you can actually find one for sale...) Perch/TB crosses, etc. are all the rage. One, because they have a suitable temperament, and two they can withstand the work involved.
The same argument can be applied to the Gypsy Horse. (The current rage is to have a 'colored' horse in the show ring, so any argument that says they won't be successful won't ring true. For example, Art Deco babies.)The Gypsy Horse temperament should be the emphasis, but let's look at their builds. They can handle the work over a long period of time. They are well suited for the show ring as hunter jumper mounts for amatuer and youth riders. Not everyone wants a hot horse that you have to work for an hour and a half before hitting show course. I know everyone is going to complain about the hair not being suitable for this venue... but face it. A, people are either going to shave it and present the horse as the typical heavy hunter.... or B, they're going to show the horse naturally. If the breed is safe enough for kids to handle... eventually they're going to be a choice for parents.
Yes, I have a 13.3 hand gelding. Every little girl that sees him wants one for themselves. (Think about how girls love to groom! "Ah, a my pretty pony that has come to life!".)He will be going to hunter jumper shows.... and he'll be successful. He's a good mover, and if he goes a clean round... then he should be in the ribbons.

[silver]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Silver, look up to the post above where he answered you. He does not have breeder contacts, he has Gypsy contacts and he is not going to violate their privacy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't really see how introducing a breeder to what may be a potential customer would be such a big deal. Especially for such expensive horses As for being culturally sensitive well, I've been there when people bought horses off travellers on more than one occasion and I've been to plenty of horse fairs. I know people who run one of the biggest caravan rental operations and own many of these horses. I think I could manage not to offend anyone.

As stated above, the backstory on these horses raises serious questions to me. If the sellor claims that these particular horses are from a special breeding program he should be willing to supply proof of that. Whay all the big secrecy? If you want to buy a horse off a traveller it's easy to track them down through the grapevine.

Oh and to whoever said they wouldn't stay sound if you jumped them, as far as I've seen you can break them at a year, gallop them around on the roads, jump them every day and most of them will still stay sound. They are pretty tough horses, no doubt about that. No at all what the American H/J market wants though: generally up-headed with tons of action and a drafty straight up and down jump. Most cobs can jump very impressively over a vertical but won't make the spreads. That's why they aren't very common in the showjumping ring in the UK.

~edited for poor spelling!~

[This message was edited by silver on Feb. 21, 2004 at 08:15 PM.]