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padlocked stall door? Equine Law???

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  • #81
    Originally posted by Kate66 View Post
    I'm a little confused. Why is the trainer blanketing, unblanketing and caring for the horse etc rather than the BO? In reality I suspect the issue is that the trainer can't ride the horse. Ah well, tough luck, client should pay his/her bills.
    It's pretty typical in California barns, where the barn owner is separate from the trainer, for the barn owner to be providing only hay and cleaning, and for the trainer to be providing all other care - fly masks, turnout, blanketing, holding for farrier, feeding supplements, etc.

    Poor horse.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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    • #82
      The 90 days? In most states, that's the amount of time that has to pass after official notice via certified mail that action will be taken and a lien filed. There has to be a good paper trail established to show the court to get a lien against property-and the courts consider livestock property.

      That Virginia law cited on the first page does give a lien holder the right to prevent the owner from taking the horse -read it carefully. Just refers to the fact they have to have a lien or be the owner.

      About those auctions, got news for you, very few, if any, bidders show up and usually there is no profit for 1st and 2nd lien holders to split. BO, or 1st lien holder, takes possesion for back board.

      But the BO here does have legal standing to put a lock on the stall door. The wisdom of doing so is questionable but the quicker she sets up the auction and publishes the required notices? The quicker the lock can come off and legal ownership and responsibility transfer.

      Curious to why trainer wants to stay involved as a second lien holder in a non payment siezure behind the BO? Unless they want the horse and think they can get it for just the back bills?
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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      • #83
        Findeight, I do think in this situation that the horse is valuable enough that either the BO or the trainer would potentially want the horse for themselves or a client.

        That isn't a completely unrealistic scenario at all. As you mention, typically there are precious few bidders. Public auctions such as for an abandoned horse need to be advertised, but how many people read the tiny little ads in the local paper? Not many. So then the BO, or the trainer, or the trainer's husband, etc. bids a few thousand dollars, enough to cover the bills, and voila, they are the new legal owners of the 50K jumper.

        If the horse wasn't valuable, a BO would be very foolish to block its removal from the premises.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by poltroon View Post
          It's pretty typical in California barns, where the barn owner is separate from the trainer, for the barn owner to be providing only hay and cleaning, and for the trainer to be providing all other care - fly masks, turnout, blanketing, holding for farrier, feeding supplements, etc.

          Poor horse.
          Yup.
          Founding Member of "I Kept 'Off Topic Day!' Open"

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          • #85
            Not all states require that the auction be public or even advertised. You guys REALLY need to stop making assumptions about the law ANYWHERE as it varies greatly from state to state.

            I can tell you what it is in Texas - Texas Property Code sec. 70.003, et seq:

            After nonpayment for 60 days, BO must give notice (does not even have to be in writing) to horse owner demanding payment within X number of days (not less than 10). And if the horse owner is out of state you don't even have to give notice at all.

            During this time, it is illegal for the owner to remove the horse from the property (but fact is that the lien is a possessory one, so if they do manage to steal it in the night [yes, this happens all the time] the BO loses the lien and the DA could, but is not likely to, charge the owner with burglary, theft and/or criminal trespass. Yes, the BO could put padlocks on the stall, but most do not because of the real risk to the horse is there were a fire.

            If payment hasn't been received by the deadline, then the lien IS FORECLOSED by operation of law without any other hoops for BO to jump through (no need to get a court involved in the process at all). You then give the owner another notice (doesn't have to be in writing and don't have to give it at all if the horse owner is out of state) telling the owner that the horse has now been forclosed and will be sold at public sale on X date (not less than 20 days from date of letter) at X time and at X place to the highest bidder and that proceeds will be applied to the outstanding bill and that any overage will be sent to horse owner at owner's last known address.

            No advertising of the sale required. At date and time and place, someone asks if anyone present (usually there is no one) wants to place a bid. If no one is there, BO usually bids $100 and the horse is theirs. AND they can still sue the horse's owner for the balance due on the horse.

            If someone is there to actually bid on the horse, BO will usually stay in the bidding up to the amount due on the bill and then either they win or the other bidder(s) win.

            The horse's owner may come and bid but what is the point, since BO would continue to outbid them until the amount of the bill was reached.

            Then the BO sends a letter to the horse registry (or their lawyer does) saying that the horse wasproperly forclosed and sold according to Texas law and that the BO (or whomever) is now the legal owner and please reissue the registration papers into the new owner's name (assumming you inclosed their fee to do so).

            OTHER STATES CAN BE VASTLY DIFFERENT!
            Last edited by Sonesta; Dec. 27, 2011, 02:16 PM.
            Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

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            • #86
              Wow. that is interesting Sonesta. Good information to know.
              "Sadly, some people's greatest skill, is being an idiot". (facebook profile pic I saw).

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              • #87
                Tread very carefully......in some states this is prohibited. I suggest checking your state statutes regarding "equine" activities . I would also suggest contacting a local attorney who either specializes in equine law (yes it does exist) or who is familiar with the horse world in general. A consult would not cost you too much (may even be free as an initial consult) and will avoid any repercussions should they arise.

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                • #88
                  As others have said, it's state-specific. The person involved needs to pony up (Ha!) and consult a lawyer.

                  If s/he wants to be on the right side of the law.

                  Me? I'd go in there with a pair of bolt cutters and feed them to the first person who tried to stop me getting my horse. But then, I paid my board bills when it meant I went hungry, so I've never actually had to deal with this sort of thing IRL.
                  I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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                  • #89
                    Just curious, what would the legalities be if
                    A) the horse dies in an "act of god" type situation (fire, hurricane, tornado) because it could not be removed from the stall because of the padlock
                    B) the horse was neglected (not fed enough, not enough water, stall not cleaned, horse goes without needed vet/farrier care) and is damaged because no one could get past the padlock on its door.

                    Who would be liable?
                    This seems like a very real possibility. If the BO is not available to unlock the stall door for hours at a time for basic care, I would be worried about their availability in an emergency. Yes, bolt-cutters, but they are unwieldy and probably not the best idea in an emergency.

                    Just wondering. Hope everything turns out ok for everyone.

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                    • #90
                      Seems to me that the post mentioning the local humane society makes the most sense. So horse is padlocked in stall - what about feet, vet, mucking and feeding? What how could the trainer's fees surpased the boarding fees? Seriously what kind a business person would continue to teach, ride, compete at their own expense? How many shows did this trainer take this horse to to far exceed the $12K in back board? I can't see locking up the poor horse - I can see the BO taking steps to sell/auction off the horse for fees. BO could take steps to find out where this person is employed - some translators make a good chunk of change and they could file civil suit and garnish the owner's wages and/or put lien on other personal property i.e. house, car etc.

                      This post is strikingly similiar to another some months ago?

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by chizzle View Post
                        Seems to me that the post mentioning the local humane society makes the most sense. So horse is padlocked in stall - what about feet, vet, mucking and feeding? What how could the trainer's fees surpased the boarding fees? Seriously what kind a business person would continue to teach, ride, compete at their own expense? How many shows did this trainer take this horse to to far exceed the $12K in back board? I can't see locking up the poor horse - I can see the BO taking steps to sell/auction off the horse for fees. BO could take steps to find out where this person is employed - some translators make a good chunk of change and they could file civil suit and garnish the owner's wages and/or put lien on other personal property i.e. house, car etc.

                        This post is strikingly similiar to another some months ago?
                        As was stated at the beginning of the thread, the horse is owned by a student. She is from outside of the country. There is no way to collect other than the horse(and possibly tack). There are no wages or property in the U.S.A. other than the horse.

                        What is the huge issue with the padlock? The horse is getting fed and cared for. The trainer does not have access to the horse, although I cannot understand why they would want access since they are not getting paid. The padlock increases the risk in the case of a fire, but fires are relatively rare. Somebody who owes board sneaking a horse away is fairly common. I am firmly on the side of the BO in this case.
                        I support equine meat processing as an option for those who choose to use it.

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                        • #92
                          Originally posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
                          As was stated at the beginning of the thread, the horse is owned by a student. She is from outside of the country. There is no way to collect other than the horse(and possibly tack). There are no wages or property in the U.S.A. other than the horse.

                          What is the huge issue with the padlock? The horse is getting fed and cared for. The trainer does not have access to the horse, although I cannot understand why they would want access since they are not getting paid. The padlock increases the risk in the case of a fire, but fires are relatively rare. Somebody who owes board sneaking a horse away is fairly common. I am firmly on the side of the BO in this case.
                          I thought somewhere the OP posted that student had a job translating or something - if so then the BO could sue and if they were to prevail garnish the wages - of course this would only work IF student did have job, car, etc.Has the student owner left the country? if that's the case just auction the horse off- if the trainer likes the horse that much then they can buy it. I'm sorry I don't have much sympathy for a person who knowingly get bills out of control - I can somewhat see how the board could escalate but not the trainer's expenses - that is simple - don't touch the horse.

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                          • #93
                            Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                            Me? I'd go in there with a pair of bolt cutters and feed them to the first person who tried to stop me getting my horse.
                            In this case it ain't your horse to get until you settle your debt (figuratively speaking of course).

                            And just be warned that the person holding lien on the horse may have something more than bolt cutters to feed to you.

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