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padlocked stall door? Equine Law???

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  • #21
    I'm a little confused. Why is the trainer blanketing, unblanketing and caring for the horse etc rather than the BO? In reality I suspect the issue is that the trainer can't ride the horse. Ah well, tough luck, client should pay his/her bills.

    You say it's super complicated, but I have to say if I was a BO that was being stiffed by someone who could afford a valuable horse and a trainer, I'd probably be taking drastic measures to get my money back too. The value of the horse in ratio to the amount involved is totally irrelevant. The owner may feel that it's a petty amount that's involved for their "lovely, valuable" horse, but to the BO that's money out of his/her pocket in utilities, facilities, feed etc.

    I hate the idea of padlocking a stall, but perhaps there's a reason for this or some history or perceived threat that the horse will be removed mid-night or something?

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by alexisgeo View Post
      It's obviously super complicated but basically, the client has failed to pay board for 3 months and the facility owner has a lien on the horse.
      Why on earth do you think this is super complicated?

      Owner stiffs barn owner, which is a breach of contract and/or theft of services.

      Barn owner attaches lien on horse, as is his legal right to do.

      Barn owner locks what is now a security deposit on the defaulted debt so that horse owner doesn't stiff him yet again.

      Next step: barn owner to obtain judgement against horse owner and takes legal ownership of horse.

      Next step (2) barn owner auctions horse off IAW state laws, takes his cut to cover amount owed (and possibly legal fees). Former horse owner gets the rest, if any, of the auction proceeds.

      There is nothing complicated about getting legally screwed for not paying your debts.

      In some states (like mine), the lien attaches automatically as soon as care services are contracted:

      Ohio Revised Code 1311.48 LIEN FOR CARE OF ANIMALS

      As used in sections 1311.48 and 1311.49 of the Revised Code "animal" means any animal other than man and includes fowl, birds, fish, and reptiles, and "owner" means and includes the person who holds legal title to an animal, or any other person, having lawful custody of an animal, who contracts for food, board, or professional services for such animal.

      Any person who feeds or boards an animal under contract with the owner shall have a lien on such animal to secure payment for food and board furnished.

      1311.49 SALE OF ANIMAL TO SATISFY CLAIM

      If the owner of an animal, upon written demand by the lienholder, fails to satisfy a lien acquired under section 1311.48 of the Revised Code the lienholder may sell the animal at public sale to satisfy such lien, provided that before the animal is offered for sale the lienholder shall give ten days' notice of the time and place of sale in a newspaper of general circulation in the county where food or board was furnished. The lienholder, on the day following publication, shall mail a copy of the public notice to the owner by registered mail at the last known address of such owner. If the animal is sold for a price which exceeds the amount of the lien, plus costs incurred by the lienholder, the remaining balance shall be paid by the lienholder to the owner or to such other person as may be legally entitled to receive same. If the lienholder sells or otherwise disposes of any animal without first giving the notice required by this section he shall not pursue any deficiency upon such obligation.

      Comment


      • #23
        I am in Indiana and I was at a stable that padlocked a horse in a stall. The owner showed up with police and a pair of bolt cutters. Because the horse belonged to the owners the property owner had to let the horse go and fight the dispute in court.

        In the case of the barn I was at the barn owner violated the contract by failing to feed/muck/turn out the horse.

        I left the same barn in a hurry less then 30 days later by walking my horse off the property because the property owner used vehicles to block all driveways, locked all paddocks, and generally prevented any other boarder from removing their horse.

        I would not keep my horse anywhere a barn owner padlocked a horse in a stall because the safety of the horse should be priority over money in ANY situation.
        http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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        • #24
          This is an issue between the horse owner and the BO. The fact that the trainer is being inconvenienced is unfortunate, but that's life. Like several other posters, I assume the horse owner has money to pay the trainer. Whatever complications, I would most certainly pay to get my board caught up and the horse out of there. Then if there were other issues, I could litigate them separately.
          Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
          http://www.ironwood-farm.com

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          • #25
            Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
            I left the same barn in a hurry less then 30 days later by walking my horse off the property because the property owner used vehicles to block all driveways, locked all paddocks, and generally prevented any other boarder from removing their horse.
            I'd report my horse stolen to the county Sheriff and would lead the deputies right to the spot.

            You can bet I then get to drive my truck and trailer right to the barn door.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Ponyclubrocks View Post
              Umm maybe I am missing something here, but how about trainer getting client to pay the darn bill? I can't imagine letting this happen, there are many things that could have been done before it got to this ridiculous situation.
              I'm with you. Why is the trainer still training the horse when board hasn't been paid for multiple months? No respect for barn owner? Desperate for money? There's no professional cooperation whatsoever at this place? It seems as if OP and trainer find it perfectly acceptable that the owner isn't paying for their horse's care. I don't get it. Yes, the lock thing sucks. Get the owner to pay the board and all is resolved. Sheesh!
              "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
              http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by IronwoodFarm View Post
                This is an issue between the horse owner and the BO. The fact that the trainer is being inconvenienced is unfortunate, but that's life. Like several other posters, I assume the horse owner has money to pay the trainer. Whatever complications, I would most certainly pay to get my board caught up and the horse out of there. Then if there were other issues, I could litigate them separately.
                Everyone go back and read the second post from the OP. The Trainer is owned a signficant amount of money (far more than what is owed the BO). The trainer was going to put a lien on the horse as well but the BO got there first. Trainer is keeping up the horse for all intents and purpose because horse has been abandoned.

                Agree with the poster that suggested the trainer suck up the $$ and pay the BO to get the lien off the horse by the BO. Then trainer needs to have a lawyer send parents/owner an official letter saying they owe $12,000 (which is what OP quoted) and they will forfeit the horse if not paid. Also trainer needs to file a lien even if the BO already has. Trainer needs to discuss it with BO and agree that the care will be paid for by trainer as trainer is trying to take ownership thru default.
                "My treasures do not chink or gleam, they glitter in the sun and neigh at night."

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                • #28
                  Two people with a common enemy should shake hands and combine forces.... they're both getting screwed by the same person over the same horse.

                  I do more or less understand the logic from the trainer's point of view though: The horse is worth less if it's not in work, and less likely to be sold for a value to cover the bill already owed.

                  At any rate, they should combine their civil cases...
                  Nudging "Almost Heaven" a little closer still...
                  http://www.wvhorsetrainer.com

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                  • #29
                    I wouldn't ever deal with a BO or trainer that would ever padlock a horse in a stall--a paddock maybe but not a stall because it is too unsafe. How do people then care for the horse? it is not the horse's fault. Get a security camera and a driveway alarm which are good to have anyway. So you know if someone is coming to take the horse.

                    Personally, I would call the horse owner's friends and relatives and employers and let them know the owner is behind in payments. That is why it is important to get these names and phone numbers at the outset so you have them if you need them.

                    I have only seen this done at two different barns over the years. Neither was a place where I could keep my horse!

                    It is a frustrating situation!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Padlocking a horse in the stall is ridiculous. I'm sure there's a better, more effective way to get money.
                      If The BO really wanted her horse, a hammer would open that lock in a heartbeat.
                      Meanwhile the horse is in a dangerous situation, being locked in a stall.
                      IMHO the BO ain't too smart.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Angry Bird View Post
                        IMHO the BO ain't too smart.
                        Really? It seems to be making people raise an eyebrow enough that the BO might just get paid.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by LookmaNohands View Post
                          Get a security camera and a driveway alarm which are good to have anyway. So you know if someone is coming to take the horse.
                          So, the BO is supposed to spend more money on this horse that's already costing them a LOT of money?? It sounds as if the BO is footing all of the bills for this horse and not getting any use out of it and now they should pony up more just to police the loser who owns this animal?
                          If the BO, hasn't been paid and the trainer hasn't been paid ($12,000 in back training fees?? How does that happen? Why didn't the trainer just quit sooner?), how about farrier and vet care? Has it been 3 months or more since the feet were done? If so, how is the trainer continuing training? Is the horse not being dewormed? Has it been vaccinated?
                          I can understand that the trainer would like to take ownership of a valuable horse. But it seems suspect to me that there's little concern for the BO who's feeding and housing and providing for the horse. I'm wondering if there's more going on here, but then, I'm the skeptical, suspicious type anyway.
                          "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
                          http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by LookmaNohands View Post
                            I wouldn't ever deal with a BO or trainer that would ever padlock a horse in a stall--a paddock maybe but not a stall because it is too unsafe. How do people then care for the horse? it is not the horse's fault. Get a security camera and a driveway alarm which are good to have anyway. So you know if someone is coming to take the horse.

                            Personally, I would call the horse owner's friends and relatives and employers and let them know the owner is behind in payments. That is why it is important to get these names and phone numbers at the outset so you have them if you need them.

                            I have only seen this done at two different barns over the years. Neither was a place where I could keep my horse!

                            It is a frustrating situation!
                            Hey, I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty darn sure that would violate debt collection laws.
                            Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by MyssMyst View Post
                              Hey, I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty darn sure that would violate debt collection laws.
                              Eh, also impractical. According to OP owners aren't in the US and don't speak English; their daughter, the rider, is used as the contact/translator. I doubt the BO or trainer could find their employers or friends; it'll be hard enough to serve them with the paperwork necessary to move forward with selling the horse, is my guess. Maybe harder/more expensive than it's worth.
                              Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Is it Ireland where the collector of a debt can go to the debtor's place of business and post signage, picket, share the story with coworkers, boss, etc... I think it is. Shame is a powerful motivator!
                                "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
                                http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by nashfad View Post
                                  Legally in TN you cannot hold a horse---------but personally, if you can't pay, I don't want your horse. I'll take you to court for what you owe and I'll drop your horse off at your house. It can stand at your place, not mine. That warning has always worked to get late boarders in motion.
                                  Who ever told you this? I'd like to see the citation for this statement.

                                  AFAIK in TN a person providing certain equine services has a lien on the animal (and sometimes its offspring) to secure payment for those services. The lien is valid ONLY as along as the lien holder has possetion of the horse. If an owner takes possetion of the horse over the lien then it's theft. If the amount in controversy is more than $500 it's Felony Theft.

                                  The lien holder may prevent an owner from taking the horse in the same fashion that they could prevent a thief from stealing their car or horse trailer or a cow. In this case theft is theft.

                                  So the lien holder could put a padlock on a stall if they chose to. It would be a poor practice IMO, but it would be legal. There's a large riding club not far from where I live and the last time I visited (maybe 6-7 years ago) many stalls were padlocked. The keys were supposed to be "in the office" but who knows?

                                  I, too, am curious how a trainer is being paid but the board isn't.

                                  G.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by alexisgeo View Post
                                    Basically this kid is a very irresponsible and shady character who somehow managed to come up with the $50,000 to buy the horse in the first place but hasn't come up with a dollar to support the animal since.
                                    .
                                    Seriously - 26 is not a kid!! The fact that her parents have anything to do with it is irrelevant. An adult (26!) brought a horse to a barn and made arrangements for payments. Payments didn't happen. The BO and the trainer entered into a contract with the 26 year old adult, they should not need to have any contact whatsoever with her parents.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by alexisgeo View Post
                                      I know you can't lock up horses at horse shows like they used to in order to prevent theft (right?...I'm pretty sure there was some rule passed in the last few decades about that...?)
                                      Unless you can provide citation to a state law or regulation, you don't know.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        So the parents who are the "real" owners have never wired any money? Who signed the boarding contract? Has any money been received at all from the 26 yo or their parents? I would think at this point it would be easier to have the horse declared abandoned than to try and get money out of the owners. I am guessing that dear old mom and dad have no idea they are supposed to be paying for a horse. If the BO or trainer has ANY contact info for them, I would contact the nearest college or courthouse for a translator and make contact without going through the 26 yo.
                                        Originally posted by The Saddle
                                        Perhaps I need my flocking adjusted.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by alexisgeo View Post
                                          Basically, what I'm really curious about and would love to stick to are laws about physically locking up the animal.
                                          California Civil Code Division 3, Part 4, Title 14, Chapter 6.7, Section 3080.02.

                                          In addition to any other rights and remedies provided by law, a lienholder may:
                                          (a) Retain possession of the livestock and charge the owner for the reasonable value of providing livestock services to the livestock until the owner's obligations secured by the lien have been satisfied.
                                          There's your answer. Padlocking a door is one of the most universally accepted ways to retain possession the property inside.

                                          If you want to prove that it is illegal to lock up a horse in its stall, YOU need to find the citation in law backing up your position.

                                          If no such prohibition can be found, then it is legal.

                                          I do have to ask, unless YOU are owed money over this horse and you fit the definitions of Section 3080 (b) and (c)
                                          3080. As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall
                                          apply:
                                          (a) "Livestock" means any cattle, sheep, swine, goat, or horse, mule, or other equine.
                                          (b) "Livestock servicer" means any individual, corporation,
                                          partnership, joint venture, cooperative, association or any other organization or entity which provides livestock services.
                                          (c) "Livestock services" means any and all grazing, feeding,
                                          boarding, general care, which includes animal health services,
                                          obtained or provided by the livestock servicer, or his employee,
                                          transportation or other services rendered by a person to livestock for the owner of livestock, or for any person acting by or under the owner's authority.
                                          Then you don't have a dog in this fight.

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