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INCREDIBLE new development in the NYC carriage industry situation!

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  • INCREDIBLE new development in the NYC carriage industry situation!

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/h...mWLiFT1yJNcnXI

    From the article:

    "An NYPD cop-turned-animal-welfare agent is stepping forward to charge that the ASPCA is cutting ethical and legal corners in its attempt to abolish the city’s horse-carriage industry.

    “It’s like targeting. It’s like racial profiling,” Henry Ruiz said of the agency’s efforts to uncover wrongdoing in the century-old industry."

    ...there is MUCH more -- this article is going to help us turn the tide! I want to thank COTHers again for their interest and support!
    Last edited by michaleenflynn; Dec. 4, 2011, 11:20 AM.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

  • #2
    Is there a way for you to demand that the ASPCA release the report stating the carriage horses receive good care? I mean, can an attorney get it for you?

    Comment


    • #3
      LIKE button!!
      Every one of them had that look of a girl infatuated with horses, the happy, fated look of a passenger setting sail on the Titanic.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by lolalola View Post
        Is there a way for you to demand that the ASPCA release the report stating the carriage horses receive good care? I mean, can an attorney get it for you?
        We will be working on that this week!
        VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

        Comment


        • #5
          That's very good news! I wish you luck. The ASPCA commands lots of money and political clout, so you're going to need it.
          The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
          Winston Churchill

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Frank B View Post
            That's very good news! I wish you luck. The ASPCA commands lots of money and political clout, so you're going to need it.
            Thank you, Frank!
            VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

            https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

            Comment


            • #7
              From the article:
              “Our goal is the well-being of the horses, not simply the absence of cruelty,” (ASPCA spokesman Bret Hopman) said.
              He might as well be saying that all "work" (including riding them) is against their well-being. That's what they mean
              Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

              Comment


              • #8
                Excellent. Seems the ASPCA dug themselves into a hole with this one. Poor Charlie didn't die in vain after all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I remember Henry Ruiz from the Animal Cops show on Animal Planet. He was a highly decorated NYPD officer, who worked a lot of undercover for the ASPCA with busting dog fighting rings. He really seemed to be devoted to helping animals.
                  You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Coanteen View Post
                    From the article:


                    He might as well be saying that all "work" (including riding them) is against their well-being. That's what they mean
                    Basically, what the ASPCA is saying is "We know you follow all the traffic laws, and you even change your oil on the ridiculous schedule we mandated, but we still don't like the way you drive, so we're going to take your keys, seize your car and send it to the junkyard."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
                      We will be working on that this week!
                      as a "government agency"... open records laws prevail; they can not hide behind the shield of private actives action group

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's too bad that the ASPCA doesn't interpret the current situation as one where they did a good job, they helped the poor carriage horses, they helped put processes in place that indeed did prevent cruelty to animals, and now that their work is done, they can go elsewhere and help.
                        It's 2017. Do you know where your old horse is?

                        www.streamhorsetv.com -- website with horse show livestream listings and links.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One possible ASPCA response to this mess they created is to throw some employees under the bus, say they were overzealous and working outside their mandates, etc. etc.

                          They better be careful who they choose for that.
                          Those may turn around and tell more about what is really going on than the ASPCA would want it's donors to know.

                          I know of one supposedly ASPCA lawyer working for them years ago.
                          If that is the kind they still employ, I would not be too worried about this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            One possible ASPCA response to this mess they created is to throw some employees under the bus, say they were overzealous and working outside their mandates, etc. etc.

                            They better be careful who they choose for that.
                            Those may turn around and tell more about what is really going on than the ASPCA would want it's donors to know.

                            I know of one supposedly ASPCA lawyer working for them years ago.
                            If that is the kind they still employ, I would not be too worried about this.
                            That's what they did last year when they were sued for overzealous prosecution / unconstitutional search and seizure by their Humane Law Enforcement agents. They threw Annemarie Lucas, the star of Animal Precinct under the bus and settled. She got paid off with a non-disclosure contract and apparently it has worked. Sounds like it's not going to work so well with Dr. Corey and former agent Ruiz, who left of his own accord. (And I'd be pretty disillusioned too, if I had joined the ASPCA to break up dog-fighting rings and stop REAL cruelty, and I were instead sent out to harass law-abiding carriage drivers in front of the Plaza.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry, I haven't been following this too closely. Have the results of the horse's necropsy been released?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by OnePerfectRide View Post
                                Sorry, I haven't been following this too closely. Have the results of the horse's necropsy been released?
                                Yes - Charlie had a fractured tooth and a gastric ulcer that were both "incidental" findings, meaning they had nothing to do with the cause of death / did not contribute to death. The ASPCA issued a press release characterizing Charlie as "unhealthy" and "suffering from pain and neglect," which was spread round the world. The ASPCA's vet objected to that report, saying she had been "pressured" to make the necropsy look bad for the industry, despite no evidence that Charlie had shown symptoms of anything being amiss before he died. She issued a correction to the Department of Health and, as a reward for telling the veterinary truth about the horse, was suspended by the ASPCA. She has since filed a complaint with the NY Attorney General about the ASPCA's pressuring of her and the conflict of interest it put her in as a scientist and law enforcement agent.

                                The Horse and Carriage Association of New York likewise has filed complaints against the ASPCA and its affiliated lobbying group NY-CLASS for their fraudulent and deceptive campaign against the industry, as well as obvious "conflict of interest." http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/12710

                                Now, the New York Post has uncovered former agent Henry Ruiz and his allegations of cutting legal and ethical corners at the ASPCA to further their anti-carriage-horse agenda.

                                We still do not have any answers as to what killed Charlie, but we of course all know that 15 year old horses can, and do, sometimes just keel over (cf. Hickstead). What we DO know is that the ASPCA and NY-CLASS have made a coordinated effort to exploit Charlie's death for their own ends, but in so doing have crossed the line from advocacy and law enforcement into witch-hunt territory, where things like facts and ethics don't seem to matter much. They're desperate.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by thedrafthorse View Post
                                  Yes - Charlie had a fractured tooth and a gastric ulcer that were both "incidental" findings, meaning they had nothing to do with the cause of death / did not contribute to death. The ASPCA issued a press release characterizing Charlie as "unhealthy" and "suffering from pain and neglect," which was spread round the world. The ASPCA's vet objected to that report, saying she had been "pressured" to make the necropsy look bad for the industry, despite no evidence that Charlie had shown symptoms of anything being amiss before he died. She issued a correction to the Department of Health and, as a reward for telling the veterinary truth about the horse, was suspended by the ASPCA. She has since filed a complaint with the NY Attorney General about the ASPCA's pressuring of her and the conflict of interest it put her in as a scientist and law enforcement agent.

                                  The Horse and Carriage Association of New York likewise has filed complaints against the ASPCA and its affiliated lobbying group NY-CLASS for their fraudulent and deceptive campaign against the industry, as well as obvious "conflict of interest." http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/12710

                                  Now, the New York Post has uncovered former agent Henry Ruiz and his allegations of cutting legal and ethical corners at the ASPCA to further their anti-carriage-horse agenda.

                                  We still do not have any answers as to what killed Charlie, but we of course all know that 15 year old horses can, and do, sometimes just keel over (cf. Hickstead). What we DO know is that the ASPCA and NY-CLASS have made a coordinated effort to exploit Charlie's death for their own ends, but in so doing have crossed the line from advocacy and law enforcement into witch-hunt territory, where things like facts and ethics don't seem to matter much. They're desperate.
                                  I think that the internet is showing the world that some of those non profit groups are raking in the millions to suit those running them and follow some extremist ideas, as animal rights are.
                                  That money is being donated with the false impression of what it is for.
                                  It seems that they are a bit desperate, trying to do PR damage control furiously.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    In the photos I saw, he sure didn't look unhealthy or poorly cared for. An ulcer and fractured tooth are nothing. I do think it's strange that they haven't found anything. Are they still waiting for some test results to come back or something?

                                    In the cases that I've seen "healthy" horses drop dead, it seems to usually be some catastrophic cardiovascular failure, which is quickly found on necropsy. I'm not saying that the carriage people are to blame. If there was something wrong with the horse, they most likely had no idea.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Kickin ass and takin names!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I also wanted to say, that while the ASPCA has certainly handled this very poorly, please don't think of them as a big, bad organization trying to attack all well meaning animal owners. Although I don't agree with everything they do, and I'm going to include the Humane Society and PETA in here too, these organizations do quite a lot of good for the welfare for our country's animals as a whole. Any big organization/company/government is unfortunately going to have corruption and people with personal agendas. Some more than others. It's a shame, but that's how it goes. Maybe the ASPCA will do some "housecleaning" with this incident.

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