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INCREDIBLE new development in the NYC carriage industry situation!

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  • #21
    Originally posted by OnePerfectRide View Post
    I also wanted to say, that while the ASPCA has certainly handled this very poorly, please don't think of them as a big, bad organization trying to attack all well meaning animal owners. Although I don't agree with everything they do, and I'm going to include the Humane Society and PETA in here too, these organizations do quite a lot of good for the welfare for our country's animals as a whole. Any big organization/company/government is unfortunately going to have corruption and people with personal agendas. Some more than others. It's a shame, but that's how it goes. Maybe the ASPCA will do some "housecleaning" with this incident.
    Ed Sayres needs to go. That's pretty clear.

    As for the rest of your comment, I agree with Nathan Winograd's fairly recent blog post:

    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=7556

    When you point out that HSUS or the ASPCA or PETA or even Best Friends have done things to harm animals and have betrayed the cause they are pledged to protect, invariably someone responds with the claim that they should not be criticized because they do “so much good for animals.” The argument that we should ignore all the bad things organizations have done because they allegedly also do good things is disturbing. In effect, they are saying that, “HSUS/ASPCA/PETA/Best Friends do so much good, they should have carte blanche to do terrible, irreversible, life ending things, too.”

    Even if it were true that these groups do “so many good things” for animals, it does not entitle them to a blank check to call for the killing of two-week old puppies or to fight a bill that would have ended the cruel, painful gas chamber as HSUS did. It does not entitle them to fight progressive legislation that would have saved 25,000 animals a year who had a rescue group ready, willing, and able to save them as Best Friends did. It does not entitle them to send kittens to their deaths because they have a cold as the ASPCA did, or to kill dogs like Oreo and Max who had a place to go. It does not entitle them to seek out and kill 2,000 animals a year as PETA does.
    And it does not entitle the ASPCA to pressure their vet to concoct un-truths about Charlie. It does not entitle the ASPCA to pressure their animal cops to meet quotas on violations, when there really aren't any to be found. It does not entitle the ASPCA to create and fund a lobbying group, NY-CLASS, which routinely lies and misleads the public about the carriage horses in NYC. And it does not entitle the ASPCA to throw around the word "cruelty" when there is no evidence of it.

    The ASPCA has a responsibility to its mission, its history, and its reputation. And they've abdicated that responsibility an awful lot when it comes to carriage horses in New York City.

    Comment


    • #22
      Although I don't post on your threads, I read them and appreciate your keeping us updated as this evolves.

      I live across the country in the NW and some of what you write just amazes me. I can't believe they get away with that - sometimes it feels like you are writing from the perspective of an alternate universe. I am sure people local to me would blow the actions of these groups off as being just a bunch of "city people being ignorant".

      But I see the implications for the future of the horse industry and the eventual ramifications even for horse owners like me. Thank you for your efforts on behalf of the rest of us.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by OnePerfectRide View Post
        I also wanted to say, that while the ASPCA has certainly handled this very poorly, please don't think of them as a big, bad organization trying to attack all well meaning animal owners. Although I don't agree with everything they do, and I'm going to include the Humane Society and PETA in here too, these organizations do quite a lot of good for the welfare for our country's animals as a whole. Any big organization/company/government is unfortunately going to have corruption and people with personal agendas. Some more than others. It's a shame, but that's how it goes. Maybe the ASPCA will do some "housecleaning" with this incident.
        Sorry, no. They are fund raising and lobbying organizations, doing virtually NOTHING to help animals. Their fundraising activities divert money from organizations like your local SPCA wo do help animals.

        PETA headquarters are not far from me in Norfolk. They run a euthanasia center which kills about 2000 animals a year. Animals who are unlucky enough to end up in their grasp are killed very quickly. Other local humane organizations evaluate the animals they recieve, make sure they are socialized and take them to the local PetSmart and other locations where many are adopted.

        HSUS spends more money on its executive pension plan than it does on grants to animal shelters.

        How much money is ASPCA spending on its persecution of the carriage industry? Of Ringling Brothers?
        I wasn't always a Smurf
        Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by OnePerfectRide View Post
          I also wanted to say, that while the ASPCA has certainly handled this very poorly, please don't think of them as a big, bad organization trying to attack all well meaning animal owners. Although I don't agree with everything they do, and I'm going to include the Humane Society and PETA in here too, these organizations do quite a lot of good for the welfare for our country's animals as a whole. Any big organization/company/government is unfortunately going to have corruption and people with personal agendas. Some more than others. It's a shame, but that's how it goes. Maybe the ASPCA will do some "housecleaning" with this incident.
          I don't think you really know who those organizations are.
          You can learn more here, don't miss clicking on the menu on the right side, their financial statements and quotes.
          Extremely enlightening:

          http://activistcash.com/organization...-united-states

          There is a page for PETA also.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            New article in Horseback:

            http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/12895
            VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

            https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
              "In nine years working for the ASPCA, Ruiz told the Post, he never witnessed cruelty involving a carriage horse."

              Wait, did I read that right, let me quote that again:

              "In nine years working for the ASPCA, Ruiz told the Post, he never witnessed cruelty involving a carriage horse."

              Not just any animal cop, a celebrity one...

              Congratulations, I think you just got your injunction... and quite possibly your court win.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by OnePerfectRide View Post
                and I'm going to include the Humane Society and PETA in here too, these organizations do quite a lot of good for the welfare for our country's animals as a whole.
                No, they do not.

                They are radical animal rights activists. Take your blinders off.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Now that the sword is starting to draw ASPCA blood, I hope whoever is holding it sinks it in to the hilt.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by OnePerfectRide View Post
                    I also wanted to say, that while the ASPCA has certainly handled this very poorly, please don't think of them as a big, bad organization trying to attack all well meaning animal owners. Although I don't agree with everything they do, and I'm going to include the Humane Society and PETA in here too, these organizations do quite a lot of good for the welfare for our country's animals as a whole. Any big organization/company/government is unfortunately going to have corruption and people with personal agendas. Some more than others. It's a shame, but that's how it goes. Maybe the ASPCA will do some "housecleaning" with this incident.

                    Nope, don't agree. That is like saying Jerry Sandusky's alleged child molestation should be overlooked because he did so much for underpriviledged youth....
                    HaHA! Made-est Thou Look!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Chester's Mom View Post
                      Nope, don't agree. That is like saying Jerry Sandusky's alleged child molestation should be overlooked because he did so much for underpriviledged youth....
                      That's an excellent analogy!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Chester's Mom View Post
                        Nope, don't agree. That is like saying Jerry Sandusky's alleged child molestation should be overlooked because he did so much for underpriviledged youth....
                        Originally posted by lolalola View Post
                        That's an excellent analogy!
                        Perfectly apt analogy.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Originally posted by mildot View Post
                          Now that the sword is starting to draw ASPCA blood, I hope whoever is holding it sinks it in to the hilt.
                          Love this.

                          We are trying.
                          VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                          https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Originally posted by HeartsongHorses View Post
                            Although I don't post on your threads, I read them and appreciate your keeping us updated as this evolves.

                            I live across the country in the NW and some of what you write just amazes me. I can't believe they get away with that - sometimes it feels like you are writing from the perspective of an alternate universe. I am sure people local to me would blow the actions of these groups off as being just a bunch of "city people being ignorant".

                            But I see the implications for the future of the horse industry and the eventual ramifications even for horse owners like me. Thank you for your efforts on behalf of the rest of us.
                            Wow, thank you for the kind words of encouragement.
                            VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by HeartsongHorses View Post
                              Although I don't post on your threads, I read them and appreciate your keeping us updated as this evolves.

                              I live across the country in the NW and some of what you write just amazes me. I can't believe they get away with that - sometimes it feels like you are writing from the perspective of an alternate universe. I am sure people local to me would blow the actions of these groups off as being just a bunch of "city people being ignorant".

                              But I see the implications for the future of the horse industry and the eventual ramifications even for horse owners like me. Thank you for your efforts on behalf of the rest of us.
                              The same here, where I live. You notice, the whack jobs only go where people are a bit more 'malleable'? They don't go out here in the sticks where people will fire (literally) back at you.

                              Although, I will say, there is a local 'rescue' group whose website has some disturbing things on it... This group has 'helped' some owners beyond what I would call normal parameters.... They got pushback, even on craigslist. So, they've been a little quieter lately.
                              GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Glad to hear the carriage folk are pushing back! I have a (non-horsie) friend in Huntington NY who thinks NO animal should be used for anything at all. She suggested horses could just be "pets"...like a dog or cat.

                                Just doesn't get that being ridden and pulling carriages is what horses were BRED for -- for 10's of thousands of years!

                                There would be no reason for horses to exist if they don't have a job of some kind...at least for the majority of horses.

                                I remember reading an interview with Buck Brannaman back when he was doing press junkets for "The Horse Whisperer". This was in NYC.

                                Someone asked him about the carriage horses and didn't he think it was cruel, etc. He said "absolutely not...it was actually a pretty easy gig compared to say, a working cowhorse."

                                The quote is in his autobiography. Maybe with the big success of his movie "Buck" you could talk him into appearing at a fund-raiser with the movie as a draw...or at least make a statement about the healthy & well-being of the horses.

                                Somebody needs to bring in people who are horse experts...

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Well I can tell you ASPCA is not getting anymore donations from me or family until they get their act together and prove worthy.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I received a fundraising plea from the ASPCA and sent back a note explaining that I am encouraging people not to donate until they stop this ridiculous persecution of NYC carriage drivers. And I sent it back in their postage-paid envelope!

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Kyzteke View Post
                                      I remember reading an interview with Buck Brannaman back when he was doing press junkets for "The Horse Whisperer". This was in NYC.

                                      Someone asked him about the carriage horses and didn't he think it was cruel, etc. He said "absolutely not...it was actually a pretty easy gig compared to say, a working cowhorse."

                                      The quote is in his autobiography. Maybe with the big success of his movie "Buck" you could talk him into appearing at a fund-raiser with the movie as a draw...or at least make a statement about the healthy & well-being of the horses.

                                      Somebody needs to bring in people who are horse experts...
                                      YES!

                                      Originally posted by pds View Post
                                      Well I can tell you ASPCA is not getting anymore donations from me or family until they get their act together and prove worthy.
                                      Originally posted by lolalola View Post
                                      I received a fundraising plea from the ASPCA and sent back a note explaining that I am encouraging people not to donate until they stop this ridiculous persecution of NYC carriage drivers. And I sent it back in their postage-paid envelope!
                                      I did the same thing - felt awesome
                                      Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                                      "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Buck Brannaman carriage horse quote...

                                        Next on my schedule were a couple of young women from MTV and Rolling Stone magazine. One of them asked, “What about those poor horses in Central Park? Don’t you think it’s awful how they have to pull those heavy carriages all day?”

                                        I had an answer for that question “No, I don’t,” I said, then explained that the Central Park horses are content. Pulling carriages on rubber-rimmed wheels on paved streets is a low-stress job, and the horses are calm and relaxed, not anxiously laying their ears back or wringing their tails. Plus, these horses get lots of attention and affection from passerby. And horses love attention and affection as much as we do.

                                        The horses that people should be concerned about are the neglected ones that, after the “newness” of ownership wears off, live in box stalls all day. These horses have no purpose, no jobs to do. All they do is eat and make manure. Even prisoners get to exercise more than these horses, and the horses have never done anything wrong. If they had the choice, these horses would choose to be carriage horses rather than stand in their stalls.

                                        Buck Brannaman, The Faraway Horses, page 251.
                                        Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                                        "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

                                        Comment

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