Interesting article on weight loss...

[CuteHunter]

Being Canadian, my boyfriend and I will often drive to Buffalo to shop - both for clothes and for what we call "American Snacks" - we go probably once a month and every single time we go, we find some new sugary/fatty snack. The BF and I have often said if we lived in the US, we would be sooooo fat because of all the delicious snacks you guys have.

Its hard when you go into Tops (or any grocery store) and the cookies are 4 dollars for one bag or 2 for $5 - as poor recent graduates, we often get the 5 dollar deal. The result - I gained about 20-30 pounds since dating this guy(and thus shopping in the states).

I too recently started Weight Watchers (maybe we should start a little WW support group on COTH?) and I am really starting to realize how costly eating badly is - both in terms of health and money. LIke one poster said, the cost of making a pizza versus buying is incredibly different and much cheaper and healthier to make one.

My mother was a single mother taking care of me and my sister - but she didnt resort to convenience foods. Sure, our meals were often repetive (i cant tell how many times I came home to plain baked chicken and brocoli steamed in the microwave)- but we were healthy, well-fed and within the limited budget my mum had. Now that I live on my own, I'm learning how to shop, cook and eat healthier and yes it is harder but its worth it.

Not sure exactly where I'm going with this but the article just didnt sit right with me either -its like telling people that they can be fat and nothing will happen - I just cant believe that. I know BMI is questionable but that doesnt mean being obese is healthy - it means we need a new way to determine obestiy, as well as a new way to help people conquer it. And i'm sorry if this offends, but it really bothers me when people call obesity a disease - cancer (not prventable kinds like say related to smoking), alzeihmers, depression etc etc are diseases - I could become easliy obese if I let myself but I dont. I cant prevent depression or alzeihmers or many other real diseases.

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[rileyt]

This is such a complex problem... there are so many different aspects to it.

I am five months pregnant,... with my first child. A boy. In some ways, I'm thrilled that my son will have far less of the "social" pressures that surround girls and weight issues. But I've thought about how I, as a future parent, want to emphasis good health to him, without turning it into some tirade that focuses him on the wrong things.

And I think the emphasis should be on "health"... and never weight, size, bmi, or some other crap. I am one of those people who is blessed with relatively "thin" genes. I'm 5'6" and weigh usually 138 (when I'm not pregnant! ). In college, when I was really working out a lot, I maxed out at 145... (almost) all muscle. I have always worn size 8-10 clothing.

Imagine my surprise when we did a BMI test in weight training class, and my teacher told me I was "significantly overweight"... or whatever the term was. what a crock. I was running about 20 miles a week, doing strength training.. I was in the best shape of my life. Fortunately, I am stubborn enough that I shrugged off his BMI calculation and didn't change a thing.

I had a good friend in high school who was always heavy. Not obese, but certainly heavy. She ran, she watched her diet, she was "healthy". but due to genetics, or maybe an undiagnosed thyroid problem, she never lost weight. She finally came to accept it.. which I think was the RIGHT decision. It was hard... she wanted to be thin. but other than eating well and exercising, its sometimes beyond your control.

That is partly why it enrages me so much everytime GM tells some heavier rider that she "needs to push back from the table". GM doesn't know what that girls story is... Yeah, if she's eating McDonalds 4 times a week and drinking soda all day,.. I'd say she needs to improve her diet. But she could also be a very fit, well-eating person (like my friend) who just will never be a size 6.

There are so many social pressures on women to be thin... There is a fine line to walk between stressing good health, and contributing to the unhealthy neuroses that form the basis for bulemia and anorexia.

[PeriwinkleBlue]

Paige, I didn't mean to generalize. I was just trying to show that my parents are being supportive of me - Dad is giving me a goal to work for, but he loves me whether I'm fat or skinny. I'm also 26, so I generally buy my own clothes!

Oh, and I have a 15 month old daughter - I make sure that she doesn't eat candy or sit in front of the TV. In fact, she's never watched a single show on TV. She runs around all day and eats healthy meals. She's the perfect weight for her size (big-boned like me!), even though she's almost wearing 3T clothing.

Tory Relic, if ever I make it to South Carolina, I will make a point of looking you up. Thanks for the invite!

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Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to merge his car onto a freeway.

[gilby]

OK, I hardly ever post here, but I think you guys are really missing the point regarding income and obesity.

The issue isn't whether or not you can AFFORD to eat well. It's a question of EDUCATION. Generally speaking, people in low-income areas are less educated.The schools are not providing children with the quality of education that an upper-income area offers. The residents don't have the money to send their children to college, and the culture doesn't put as high of an emphasis on higher learning.

The result? Less textbook and cultural education. This education is the KEY to improving one's life, both mentally and physically. Any physically healthy individual can maintain their weight. If you don't know how, or have the resources to learn how, and don't have the support of your family and friends (because they don't know any better either), they you're going to have problems.

[WildBlue]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gilby:
OK, I hardly ever post here, but I think you guys are really missing the point regarding income and obesity.

The issue isn't whether or not you can AFFORD to eat well. It's a question of EDUCATION. Generally speaking, people in low-income areas are less educated.The schools are not providing children with the quality of education that an upper-income area offers. The residents don't have the money to send their children to college, and the culture doesn't put as high of an emphasis on higher learning.

The result? Less textbook and cultural education. This education is the KEY to improving one's life, both mentally and physically. Any physically healthy individual can maintain their weight. If you don't know how, or have the resources to learn how, and don't have the support of your family and friends (because they don't know any better either), they you're going to have problems.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Case in point: I was working in a very rural Appalachian area with a local gentleman in his 50's. He was telling me about his Type II diabetes and a bunch of other problems that had his doctor yelling at him about a lifestyle change. Turns out, where this fella grew up a candy bar and can of Mountain Dew, followed by tobacco product of choice, was a very normal breakfast. Folks down there teased me about my "strange" eating habits--fresh veggies, minimal fried food and soda, etc.

[Magnolia]

An interesting planning topic/trend is that America is making fat cities due to auto-reliance. I's an interesting thought - nowadays, you drive everywhere, sit in communte traffic when you should be jogging etc. etc.

It used to be that you were in the city - you walked a bunch to get stuff - walked to the store/bus stop / whatever. Country folk just plain worked hard.

Planners are trying to start a trend of walkable/bikable cities (eg, your kids bike to school, you walk to the bus stop etc.). An interesting thought.

I'm fat, losing weight though. My main motivation? I'll be paying my own health insurance - I do not want to pay $700.00 a month because I have diabetes or high blood pressure because I'm fat. I wonder if more people had to pay the real costs of eating junk and being sedentary what we would look like.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[Albion]

Magnolia, I think the reliance on automobiles in America DOES have a lot to do with our fat problem. I loff Europe, and everytime we go to Paris, I LOSE weight, even though I am eating lots of probably-not-too-great-for-me-food. (Granted, goat cheese IS 'lighter' than cheese made from cows' milk, but one would think that living on it for a week would pork you up a bit!) Rich, rich food, GOOD wine, EXCELLENT bread, delicious panini on the corner, fresh fruit from the fruit store, etc. etc. However - we walk. EVERYWHERE. The public transportation system is so fabulous, and can get you anywhere you want to go. I went to Northern Italy last year - and other than the driving we did from city to city, we walked. Everywhere. Again, eating really rich food (mmm. cream based sauces out the wazoo). I LOVE living in a small city (Fredericksburg, Virginia) - and I live downtown, not the suburbs. I can walk to the train station. I can walk to the shops downtown. I can walk to college. It's GREAT! And a real motivation not to drive - especially when the weather is gorgeous.

In today's America of vast (sub)urban sprawl, I don't think it's realistic to expect communitites to spring up that are walkable. However, there is a real influx to the cities these days (as there often is) - and more people are choosing to STAY in cities, as opposed to moving out to the suburbs. I have grown very fond of small-city living, and I love it. I don't ever want to leave!

I do think I have healthy eating habits - shockingly, I grew up on caffine (both of the soda & tea variety) and TV. Now, my roomie was raised the same way. However - while I still nurse a coffee habit - I rarely, VERY rarely, drink soda. It takes me 2 weeks to get through a 2-litre of soda. It takes her 1 day. I stopped watching TV by the age of 8 (figured out there was really nothing too great on) & didn't turn it back on until I was 16 or 17. I STILL don't like to just sit around and watch TV - I quilt & cross stitch as a stress relief type thing, and I like 'watching' TV while I'm doing that, but that's about it.

I LOVE to cook. Roomie eats a lot of processed junk. I know she enjoys good food, too, but I absolutely adore it. I love eating great stuff that other people have made, and I enjoy creating my own. I savor food. I think too many people don't - they weren't raised on a variety of wonderful foods that are an absolute JOY to eat & experience, or their parents ate just like they do - TV dinners & prepared stuff. I get no pleasurable sensory experience from McDonald's. It satisfies my hunger & little else. We are SO focused in this country on HUGE portions - way more than people SHOULD be eating - quantity, not quality. I would rather have a teeny cut of quality, flavorful steak, with a side of bearnaise sauce & some sorbet for dessert, where I can really enjoy EVERYTHING to the last bite, than some huge meal from Outback, including a larger portion of a flavorless cut of steak - where I just wind up feeling stuffed & not particularly gratified, with tons of food still around me.

I'm very much in favor of quality over quantity, and I would much rather eat a smaller portion of richer food, than a larger portion of something I don't enjoy as much (or at all). I will take that bowl of gratin dauphinoise over a Big Mac for my daily fat intake, thank you.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[PeriwinkleBlue]

Albion, will you come be my personal chef?

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Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to merge his car onto a freeway.

[Paige]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeriwinkleBlue:
Paige, I didn't mean to generalize. I was just trying to show that my parents are being supportive of me - Dad is giving me a goal to work for, but he loves me whether I'm fat or skinny. I'm also 26, so I generally buy my own clothes!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, I didn't mean to say that you were generalizing! I just was contrasting your example with mine so show how it varies from person to person, 'cause it seemed like a lot of people on the thread were making broad, general statements! That def. wasn't directed at you, I had nothing wrong with what you said, and I don't pick people out individually on boards.

Paige
http://community.webshots.com/user/pcorbin102

[Albion]

PeriwinkleBlue, one of my ex boyfriends insists that I should become a chef, not an architectural historian. I tried explaining that while I can cook, I'm not THAT great, but I'm getting better all the time! Practice makes perfect - and I LOVE learning new skills in the kitchen. Gosh, after my dining room gets renovated, anyone in this area is welcome over, we can have a COTH Healthy Dinner Party! I really love cooking for other people.

I have found that 'Cooking Light' is a great resource for everything but desserts (I stand by my feeling that there are some things that you just CAN'T lighten up - although there's a wealth of healthy dessert options, like sorbet. Not cake & cookies, though. Yee-uck!). They usually have a lot of recipes that DON'T take a lot of time AND are good for one! One of my absolute favorite recipes of all time is a fantastic flank steak recipe - a lot of people don't like flank steak, since it can be tough & stringy. But - it's one of the healthiest, leanest cuts of red meat out there (I'm more of a chicken person, myself). Sure, if you just throw it on the grill, it's NOT going to be as tasty as nicer, fattier cuts of meat. I have made more than one person a flank steak convert with my marinated flank steak recipe - you use frozen apple juice concentrate, cider vinegar, horseradish, and some herbs. The whole thing takes a grand total of 5 minutes to whip up - you pop the steak in the marinade, throw it in the fridge overnight, turn occassionally. The next day, you can just pull it out, throw it on the broiler or grill, and voila! You have a heatlhy, VERY yummy entree for dinner in less than 15 minutes! Serve it with a side of low-/no-fat sour cream mixed up with some horseradish, and you have a tiny slice of heaven. Yum!

I also try to make stuff that tastes good cold. I'm a bit of a weirdo, and don't mind eating cold steak/chicken/etc. I have a recipe for Roquefort flank steak wraps - I can cook a batch up & stick the leftovers in the fridge, ready for a quick lunch or dinner on the go. You can definitely have convenience foods that are good for you. It just takes a little bit of time.

I do love cooking. I know I'm not fantastic at it, but there's something about being in the kitchen & trying new things out. I especially love making bread from scratch. I hardly ever eat store bought bread anymore - I just love the whole process of bread making. It's very relaxing for me. I know there must be a lot of people like my roomie, who never really learned how to cook & is a bit scared of the kitchen, because she always tries to make multi-course, elaborate meals (which don't usually come out - she just can't get everything going at the same time, or doesn't have the skills neccessary). I tried telling her to start small - an appetizer, or an entree, or a soup. NOT the whole kit & caboodle. But cooking can just be so much fun, I think there are people that would really have fun if they just stopped being skittish, rolled up their sleeves, and accepted that YES! You are going to screw up! But you are also going to make stuff that you have a taste of & it knocks your socks off.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[El Grande Stimpendo]

Magnolia - where exactly is it that grocery stores are inaccessible but fast food is readily available? 'Inner cities?' Where's that?

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Magnolia - where exactly is it that grocery stores are inaccessible but fast food is readily available? 'Inner cities?' Where's that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Charlotte, NC - west side, close to uptown. Nearest grocery - 30-35 minutes by bus. Maybe 10-15 if you have a car. Extremely poor n'hoods in that area. Plenty of Bojangles, McDonalds and 7-11 type stores. Their only grocery store was arsoned several years ago. Grocers, esp. now that they are chains don't go to these areas because their profit margins are so low, these stores are money losers due to theft, bad checks and other reasons. Charlotte is not the only city like this.

It's a sad situation, something planners are trying to address with mobile produce markets etc. etc. Can't blaim the grocers - hopefully, the WalMart model might work better in these spots.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[Albion]

Although, 'WalMart models' have been shown to cause more problems when they pack up and leave (due to low profit margins) than what was there in the first place. I think you'd be hard pressed to fit a giant Wally-World type super center into a 'real' city - unless you levelled several blocks of old housing/shopping areas, something I am NOT in favor of. But it's definitely easier to find cheap food at a KFC or McDonald's than a grocery store in DC, and the fast(er) food restaurants that serve healthier fair tend to be a lot more expensive.

Esp. in cities like DC - where you have a mix of *very* high income people & *very* low income people - the parts of the city that have been 'rehabbed' and are desirable to live in DO have those cool grocery stores, but they tend to be VERY expensive. VERY expensive. Many average, middle-class people would be hard pressed to figure out a way to feed two adults & two kids - on an *average* grocery budget - at many of those stores.

It's an issue they face in urban planning - how do you make cities more attractive to live in & save the 'feel' of the whole thing, WITHOUT grand scale 'revitalization' that includes levelling whole blocks, but at the same time, keep it affordable for lower-income people & families to live there, while still maintaining a certain level of services, etc.? Tough question.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[aregard]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by regalace:

But my main problem with people criticizing fat people is, well, who do you think you are? Yes, it's healthier to be fit--better for bones and joints, heart, etc. But nobody is fat because they want to be. It is HARD to make these changes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So?

Look, it's also HARD to study. HARD to learn a new language. HARD to work long hours for low pay or medium pay or high pay. HARD to sit my horse's trot.

Life is hard. People learn to do hard things sometimes. Somehow we're supposed to have sympathy and not worry about the health costs of obesity because learning new life habits is HARD?

[Magnolia]

It is interesting that WalMart is seeking to serve poor inner city n'hoods - they are trying it in LA and in one of Charlotte's poorer areas (not uptown). (I'm no Walmart fan..... don't even shop there....glad to have a car!)

It's funny - we have a new transit system going in Charlotte, and they would DIE if one wanted a WalMart at a transit center. But I can't think of a better thing to have accessible to those who can't afford a car than a store that sells items at lower prices. Instead, what will probably happen are 101 Starbucks and Dean and Deluca and $10 burrito places - but what is really needed is a Dollar store and a Discount grocer.

And actually, uptown Charlottenow has 2 grocery stores that specialize in carry out prepared foods and vintage wines....

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[Albion]

It's too bad it's either WalMart or expensive food places - with nary an option in between.

We had to watch a video about the potentially devestating effects of WalMart in one of my pres. classes, entitled 'Up Against the Wal' - all about the fight against Wally World in Vermont. They did trot out some interesting examples & good 'propeganda' on the 'anti-ginormous shopping stores' side of things. It's crazy to see how damaging a WalMart can be to smaller downtowns - esp. ones that are not 'ritzy' (and I don't even mean Middleburg ritzy). Fredericksburg caters to the tourist market - and while there are some good, cheap restaurants, a lot of the stores tend to be 'boutique' type in nature, or are antique stores. So ... WalMart doesn't REALLY provide any competition. After all, who comes here to do the touristy stuff & go antiquing, and winds up at WalMart instead?

I have no clue what downtown Charlotte looks like - but it always hurts my heart a little when parts of old cities (which may be in bad shape) get swept up in the 'revitalization' push & end up having whole blocks razed, so they can put up some modern, psuedo architecture that is a pale copy of the original. The idea of acres of blacktop seems even worse!

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[El Grande Stimpendo]

No corner grocery stores? What do inner city residents who dont eat at mcdonalds do for food?

[Sannois]

Excellent topic Folks! Great Insight Deltawave! Just the other day my husband said somew guy ate Macdonalds everyday for a month and gained 18 lbs.. Some thing about how bad it is for you. His Cholesterol went up quite alot as well. Not clear if that is all he ate, but I believe he did Breakfast , lunch and dinner! BLECK!!!!!

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!

[Albion]

Sannois, was that the guy that did it to either write a book or film a documentary? I can't remember. I'm pretty sure he JUST ate fast food, period.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[Sannois]

Albion, I am not sure, will have to ask Hubby where he read that. I think I heard another one that a guy did the same thing ate fast food and after 6 months developed all kinds of health problems. Not sure if it is just garbage or fact! Would be interesting to find out!

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!