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War -- It has Started.

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  • Very well said Loiuse, and Duffy.

    Just a side note, not to start trouble , but I was watching ABC news yesterday afternoon with an interview with Hans Blix. Did anybody else catch this? Well, he was asked if he felt that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, his answer: quite likely, yes . Then he side stepped and said, well we couldn't tell for sure. Now, why didn't the security council get that answer?????????

    Damn Proud to be an American!

    Comment


    • NBC just showed footage of a town in southern Iraq that was liberated... I missed the name of the town. But they showed an American soldier tearing down a huge poster of Saddam... and this grinning Iraqi guy came running up and started whacking away at SH's head with a bottle.

      Comment


      • Louise I agree. Money thrown at a problem without a plan generally doesn't work out so well.

        The promises unkept by us toward Iraq was our encouragemnt of the Kurdish and...and...[insert name of other ethnic Iraqi group here] uprising with the understanding that we would give them air support so they could attempt the overthrow of Saddam. We pulled the plug after the uprising was underway.

        We did something similar with the Kurds in the mid-70's, I believe, although I think we were suppporting them against Iran, then? I can't recall the details.

        Similar to the Bay of Pigs...

        ****
        Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
        *****
        You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

        Comment


        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elizabeth:
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Duffy:
          I truly don't give a shit where french fries or french toast originated! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          MAN! And I was all psyched to have learned something new for today!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          Yes, Elizabeth. That probably wasn't terribly gracious of me, with people educating me and such.

          Therefore, thank you to the posters who advised me that french fries and french toast did not originate in France.

          "I can justify anything!"
          \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

          Comment


          • On a note of "peace" and "liberation" and "war"... This came from a friend of mine:

            "You might remind the gentle writer that there are times and situations where peace is worse than war. There are situations where war is the answer. Ask the holocost survivors, ask the Bosnian muslums, ask the Albanians in Kosovo. War is terrible, but peace indeed can be worse. Anybody remember Ruwanda ?"

            The "gentle writer" this friend was referring to was Eomer, when saying that there is no reason for war ever, that war is always wrong, etc. I know that isn't exactly what he/she posted, but that was what I got from the posts.

            "I can justify anything!"
            \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

            Comment


            • Oh, but I wouldnt' call any of those situations peace. But I agree that war is sometimes necessary, or at least it was in the past. I think one day it won't. (Yeah, I'm optomistic, maybe stupidly so. )

              That's great Erin! Imagine if that was shown on Iraqi TV...Saddam would explode.

              I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
              The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by All points:
                Just a side note, not to start trouble , but I was watching ABC news yesterday afternoon with an interview with Hans Blix. Did anybody else catch this? Well, he was asked if he felt that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, his answer: quite likely, yes . Then he side stepped and said, well we couldn't tell for sure. Now, why didn't the security council get that answer?????????
                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                It was detailed in Hans Blix's last written report to the UN that he was quite sure they had not destroyed any weapons of mass destruction and still had them in his possession. However, when he presented the report he made no mention of it, and the press also have made no mention of it. A little strange, eh?

                Comment


                • With luck (and the incredible superiority of our military) this will be a very short war,with very few casualties. I hope we will stick around long enough to rebuild Iraq and give the people there a shot at a better life.
                  We Americans will be left with some problems, no matter how "well" the war goes. One problem is that we've stepped over an important historical line---in claiming our right to fight a "preventive" war. (And this is, of course, "preventive" war without a UN resolution or a declaration of war by Congress.) That is going to be hard to reconcile with our ideals and our democratic principles, especially if we go on to apply this doctrine in other countries.
                  I think an appropriate patriotic attitude at this point might include sadness and concern for the future.
                  BTW, writing as an old Army brat with relatives in the 101 and other units incountry. Let's not start questioning each other's patriotism or support for the troops. Both are perfectly compatible with thinking that this is "The right war, at the wrong time, in the wrong way"
                  Never give up. Never give in. Never, never, never.

                  Comment


                  • Yes, but bgoosewood, I wouldn't call what Saddam was doing to his citizens "peace" either.

                    "I can justify anything!"
                    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                    Comment


                    • It's so easy to forget the terror the Iraqi people face everyday from their own leadership when they are kept silenced out of fear. When this is all over, and these people can speak freely, maybe some people will rethink their attitude towards our stepping in to liberate the Iraqi people.
                      Why do you think so many of these Iraqi men are so quick to surrender? They will get treated better by our troops than they will by their own "government".

                      Erin and Instant Karma
                      "Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what IS that thing?!"
                      ~Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
                      http://hometown.aol.com/ws6transamgirl/index.html
                      Erin and
                      Instant Karma "Sunny", ShineDown "Liam"

                      "You can't control the wind, but you can adjust the sails."

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        Hans Blix never said they knew, or even believed, that Iraq did not have any chemical or biological weapons. (Although they did say they had found no evidence that Iraq had nuclear capability or had any viable program to develop such capability.)

                        However, as he told the U.N. and repeated in his interviews yesterday, in his opinion and that of inspection team, the inspections were progressing and were working to identify and locate those weapons and their components. The inspection team believed that given time, they could identify and eliminate any WMD capability Iraq may have had.

                        Blix's point was that the inspection process never came to a halt and it was making progress. Obviously, the extent of that progress, its pace, and its ultimate likelihood of success was the ultimate source of disagreement between the U.S., Britain, and Spain and the other Security Council members.
                        "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                        Comment


                        • If the UN Inspectors had found any WMD, it would have been by sheer accident.

                          "I can justify anything!"
                          \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                          Comment


                          • And the ONLY reason why Saddam was "playing" at all was because of our forces growing in numbers on his borders. How many years should the US military have had to support those troops, our citizens and friends, in order to him to toy with the UN Security Council and Inspectors, never to be honest, while he continues to rape, kill and torture his own citizens?

                            "I can justify anything!"
                            \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                            Comment


                            • IK, I don't think anyone disputes SH is a terrorist who murders and tortures innocents on a daily basis. Nor is there anyone here who thinbks Saddam should remain in power. What those against the war are questioning is: did we exhaust other options and are we going to war against 20 more leaders of other nations in the same boat?

                              People keep saying we tried the diplomatic thing for 12 years but, in reality, nobody pushed him very hard once the Gulf War was over. We probably could have avoided this whole mess if we had dropped a bomb on a Presidential Palace the first time he thumbed his nose at the UN sanctions.

                              ****
                              Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
                              *****
                              You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                As I said, the effectiveness of the inspections was and is a subject of intense disagreement.

                                What I objected to in the anti-Blix comments above is the implication that he had hidden his conclusions or lied about them in some attempt to harm the U.S.
                                "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                                Comment


                                • Hindsight is always great and I like that image, Midge. I should think most people wish we'd gotten rid of him, personally, 12 years ago too, along with his Republican Guard.

                                  I wasn't really paying attention, but they were showing the Information Secretary from Iraq a few minutes ago on CNN and showing the destruction of what I THOUGHT they were calling the "Peace Palace"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? How absurd is that? Course, I might have read it wrong too...

                                  "I can justify anything!"
                                  \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                                  Comment


                                  • Blix seemed to be always back-pedalling if he said anything contentious, imho.

                                    "I can justify anything!"
                                    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                                    Comment


                                    • OMG, the other palace that was hit was called the "Flower Palace"!

                                      Peace and Flower.... Ironic, wouldn't you say?

                                      "I can justify anything!"
                                      \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                                      Comment


                                      • from Patrick Henry…

                                        Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

                                        What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

                                        Battle Scarred Veteran
                                        http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                        Comment


                                        • Snowbird,

                                          John Ashcroft now has the power, under the USA Patriot Act, to find out what library books you have been borrowing, without a court order and without you knowing. I think you need to consider the words of another founding father, Benjamin Franklin:

                                          They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
                                          ------------------------------------------------------------
                                          But all the finest horsemen out—the men to Beat the Band—
                                          You’ll find amongst the crowd that ride their races in the Stand

                                          Comment

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