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War -- It has Started.

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  • Czar- I don't find you naive. Who I do find naive is those who believe we can rationally and diplomatically resolve Iraq's refusal to declare and destroy all their weapons of mass destruction.

    Read Tony Blair's speech posted by snowbird. Read the speech by Capt. Ouimette posted by monami. These are not fictional accounts. These are factual accounts of recent history involving both Iraq and terrorism.

    Saddam Hussein is a murderer. He killed his own people with mustard gas. Thousands of them. This is a documented fact. He has killed many others through the brutality of his military. Men, women, and children... none have been exempt. He *is* stockpiling chemical, biological and long-range weapons. Hans Blix' most recent report the UN detailed this. However, he neglected to discuss it in his presentation to the UN, and the press neglected to publicize that part of the report. And who do you think Saddam is waiting to use those weapons against? The U.S. and Israel. There is very little doubt about it. And if we do not take action and one of his sons or another zealot rise to power after Saddam, do you think they would hesitate to use them?

    So how do those who are against military action plan on disarming a tyrant? Do you want to issue more ultimatims? Do you want to sit down at a table with him and iron out the differences and request that he be truthful and then believe his every word despite the untruths that have gone on for years? Oh, wait, I've got it. Lets try to rationalize with him. After all, a man who does not abdicate power at the very credible threat of death and destruction from the greatest military super-power in the world, but insteads pronounces that he will claim victory over this super-power is surely rational. Then again, maybe he plans on using his weapons of mass destruction (including biological, chemical and nuclear) to ensure his victory.

    Personally, I'm glad that Bush put his money where his mouth was, and we stopped being paralyzed by the UN's (and France's) refusal to take action.

    And France... now do you really want to get me started on a country that has lost every conflict is has ever been engaged in unless another country came to its rescue?

    [This message was edited by Master Tally on Mar. 20, 2003 at 04:35 PM.]

    Comment


    • Deltawave....what you said....YES,YES,YES.
      1-Our President is not an ignorant man, by any
      definition of the word.
      2-How can he be accused of being too"Godly" and
      totally self-serving at the same time by the
      same group?
      3-I must be totally out of the foreign policy
      loop(unlike a lot of you) because I DON"T
      know more about this than the specialists in
      the field.
      4-Why has an awesome, beautiful,hunting bird
      gotten such a bad wrap?
      5-I support our President, our government, our
      armed services and their duty to protect me
      and mine as well as their duty to protect you
      and yours....even if you think they are too
      stupid and self-serving to do it!

      Comment


      • Or maybe his "godliness" is just for show. America loves a religious prez.

        I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

        Comment


        • by the way, Master Tally, you happen to be right too!

          Comment


          • hobson...I couldn't agree more with the statement that this works both ways

            I know that America isn't as blameless and pure as it is often portrayed as but I do believe in what they are doing here - regardless of how it came about and who is to blame and yada yada yada.

            I personally don't care who would've taken up the cause against Saddam..I would have been sad to see war begin either way but I also would have supported whatever country decided to put a stop to his regime and it's terror.

            And, just for the record , I don't believe that one can be elected by financial prowess alone. What does that say about the majority of Americans than? Hmm...on second thought...don't answer that question
            \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

            Comment


            • oh, but one can be elected by the Supreme Court! OH, crap, I'm not trying to stir up some poo....I've got a headache....I must stop this nonsense...

              I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
              The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

              Comment


              • No, bgoosewood, I don't think it is just for show...I don't think it helped him get elected either...in fact, I think aligning ones' self w/ a religion in this day and time isn't well looked upon at all.

                Comment


                • No again, bgoosewood, he was elected by the American people by the rules set up in the Constitution...don't like the rules...go politic against them!

                  Comment


                  • OOooooh, I think he likes photo ops of going to church vedy vedy much! America loves a religious president. Clinton did the same thing. An atheist could never be elected!!!

                    I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                    The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                    Comment


                    • I'm sure that appeals to "some" of the electorate...but has the opposite effect on more of the "others"!

                      Comment


                      • Exactly! And "some" appears to be in the majority these days. Most polls show that Americans are very "religious" whatever that means.

                        I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                        Comment


                        • Just some info for those that do not understand why we are there, or feel the need to protest (in my eyes supporting a dictator and keeping liberation from his people)read this:


                          “I am surprised to hear of all the anti-war demonstrations in the West. I wish that the demonstrators could spend just 24 hours in the place I have come from and see the reality of Iraq. Fourteen lost years of my life. Nothing but bread for food — darkness, filth, beatings, torture, killings, bitterness and humiliation.”
                          -Rafat Abdulmajeed Muhammad, jailed for selling a roll of film to an British journalist



                          "There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible."
                          -Iraqi torture witness' sworn statement to INDICT


                          “In 1991 Saddam killed 500,000 people when they rose against him. Nobody demonstrated against him then. But now the United States wants to get rid of the dictator, people are demonstrating against it.”
                          -one of the Iraqi liberation soldiers the U.S. is training at "Camp Freedom" in Hungary

                          "We are praying you will stick to your resolve to liberate our country from a dictatorial tyranny over 30 years which has caused the deaths of nearly 2 million men and women, sons and daughters." -Letter to UK Prime Minister Tony Blair from Iraqi Exiles

                          "Iraq under Saddam’s regime has become a land of hopelessness, sadness, and fear. A country where people are ethnically cleansed; prisoners are tortured in more than 300 prisons in Iraq. Rape is systematic . . . congenital malformation, birth defects, infertility, cancer, and various disorders are the results of Saddam’s gassing of his own people. . . the killing and torturing of husbands in front of their wives and children . . . Iraq under Saddam has become a hell and a museum of crimes."
                          –Iraqi Safia Al Souhail, Advocacy Director of the International Alliance for Justice



                          And of course I REALLY thought this quote was interesting!!!:

                          "If Saddam Hussein fails to comply and we fail to act or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of sanctions and ignore the commitments he's made? Well, he will conclude that the international community's lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on doing more to build an arsenal of devastating destruction. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. The stakes could not be higher. Some way, someday, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal."
                          -President Bill Clinton in 1998
                          www.signaturesporthorses.com

                          Comment


                          • I don't know about "most polls", but I do know that publically stating his belief in God caught him a load of crap from the media and the "other" party during the campaign.

                            Comment


                            • Actually, monami, the plight of the northern Iraqi's is the one place where I wonder....maybe this war is a good idea. I'm not a "black & white" person, so I'm not 100% against the war....more like 90% against it.

                              I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                              The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                              Comment


                              • bgoosewood ---

                                I was hoping those quotes would maybe of left you more like 50/50!!
                                www.signaturesporthorses.com

                                Comment


                                • We should know by now why France has been avoiding the issue of war, Money.As I said in my earlier post, alot of political leaders should also be held accountable for their past dealings, icluding the US. It's never been about terrorists, it's always been about money. If it was about taking care of the terrorists, then Iraq is only one of many countries, to kill and torture it's citizens.Where has the US been for these other suppressed countries? It seems to me that the US picks and choses who it will help, as it also decides in which countries to interfer with, for example Chile.This was a democratically elected government with a large supply of copper.I'm sorry , it just irritates me, this whole war and the innocent people who will die because of the need to have more.

                                  Comment


                                  • Thank God( ) it is perfectly legal in this country to debate this whole mess.I just find it personally annoying to support your arguement with "Bush is stupid"...."and he wasn't really elected anyway". Most of what is being said is STRICTLY opinion. None of us actually know what is going on or what went into the decision making behind it. There are lots of other people to quote who don't KNOW either...just keep that in mind

                                    Comment


                                    • Heheee, I'm not good in statistics.....maybe if I had a psychological evaluation...

                                      Polls- all's I'm saying is that politicians do look at polls. Or, their advisors do. It looks good to go to church. Clinton did it too. I think Carter's the only "true" Christian in this group.

                                      1997 87% though religion was very important and 2001 68%. Enough for a politician to say "hey, I'm religious!" NOw, I'm not saying Bush is not indeed religious.

                                      http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_poll4.htm

                                      I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                                      The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                                      Comment


                                      • Tear for Peace
                                        By Elizabeth Wine

                                        Today I shed a tear,
                                        When I thought of the war,
                                        And the destruction it was
                                        Bringing to the lives of many.

                                        Today I shopped at Wal-Mart
                                        And looking into the faces of children
                                        Brought tears into my eyes,
                                        As they are living their childhood in war.

                                        Today I realized that gone
                                        Are the days of peace,
                                        Of simple comfort,
                                        As well as our sense of safety.

                                        Today I realized I would
                                        Be seeing war in my lifetime,
                                        And many people my age
                                        Will not live to see tomorrow.

                                        Today I shed a tear,
                                        Wanting the violence to end,
                                        The evil to disappear,
                                        And a new reign of good to take over the world.

                                        "Little Big Little Big we shall soon see" --How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days
                                        \"My insurance doesn\'t cover PMS.\" --10 things I hate about you

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
                                          Heheee, I'm not good in statistics.....maybe if I had a psychological evaluation...

                                          Polls- all's I'm saying is that politicians do look at polls. Or, their advisors do. It looks good to go to church. Clinton did it too. I think Carter's the only "true" Christian in this group.

                                          1997 87% though religion was very important and 2001 68%. Enough for a politician to say "hey, I'm religious!" NOw, I'm not saying Bush is not indeed religious.

                                          http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_poll4.htm

                                          _I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Go to church. I'll think you'll find a true Christian doesn't engage in the type of nonsense Carter has.

                                          "The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." Albert Einstein

                                          Comment

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