War -- It has Started.

[All points]

Heather: Reread Nikita's post on this thread. You will find the first link to the story of the former Iraqi soldier, and his terrorist training. Relates very very closely to 9/11. Interesting reading to say the least.

[canterlope]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The US military has been suprised with the amount of resistance they have been meeting. It's only getting worse the further north they're going ... and we'll see what happens once they hit Baghdad proper.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The US military has not been surprised with the amount of resistance they have encountered. Gen. Tommy Franks, along with just about every other top member of the military and the government including GWB, has repeatedly stated that things are as they expected. Who has been surprised is the media.

I know they are just doing their job and I appreciate the fact that I can go online or turn on my TV and be able to stay abreast of the developments in Iraq. But, jeesh, I really wish the media would stop being such a bunch of chicken littles. Every time something doesn't quite go our way, the media acts as if we've lost the war.

And, while I'm on a rant about the media, could they please stop letting the Iraqi Army know every single movement of our troops. If you sit and listen to CNN for an hour, you can figure out where our troups are, what they are doing, where they are going next, even what they had for breakfast. I can just see the planning meetings of the Iraqi military leaders. Saddam and his cronies sitting around a large table with a big screen TV tuned to CNN.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A dog has one master, a cat has an entire staff.

[Albion]

I don't know Canterlope.

Many people have been suprised at the amount of resistance our forces have been met with.

Of course the media isn't going to say so. Nor are the commanders of the operation. The American public doesn't WANT to hear any such thing. We have this amazing way of sweeping anything bad under the carpet - I'm not saying this is what's happening in Iraq. But if something really bad WERE to happen, I would be very suprised if it would be told as it is, not as we want it to be. Just look at the media coverage/handling of the whole disaster in Mogidisshu (sp?), Somalia. I know LOTS of people (and not just high schoolers/college kids) who were shocked, just SHOCKED, when "Black Hawk Down" came out. They just had no idea. Whether this is symptomatic of people just ignoring the grimy, dirty, bloody details of combat, I don't know.

Compare statements from a few weeks/months ago to those now. How many people (and NOT just the media) were predicting a quick & easy campaign, with little-to-no-loss of life?

-Albion

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[Midge]

I'm with you canterlope. The reporter yesterday sighing over 'heavy casualties'. It was ten! What in the world will he say when a whole unit is wiped out?

****
Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Erin]

I think a lot of the media hand-wringing is due to the fact that they're trying to find something new to talk about 24 hours a day. Any new development is analyzed to death because it's finally something new to talk about.

Now, having said that, I've had CNN on just about every waking hour. But you definitely have to filter out a LOT of their blathering and look at the big picture.

[Albion]

I'm not denying that the media is making mountains out of molehills.

But does anyone really think that the administration OR the military is going to get up and make a rousing speech on on the problems we're running into?

No.

I'll be curious to read the papers/accounts/etc. about 10 years after all this is over. It would also be interested to see what comes out after a lot of the military material becomes de-classified.

-Albion

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[Duffy]

Erin, I fall asleep to it. It's on when I can't sleep. It's on when I am asleep. It's on when I awaken in the wee hours. It's on when I finally get up and have to get moving. I can't help it.

I had to force myself to get outside and do some yardwork - take advantage of another gorgeous day today. I grabbed a quick "hit" when I got home from work, then ripped myself away.

"I can justify anything!"

[SLW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SLW:
"Middle America" was watching the war yesterday. As I stopped for fuel and food along I-29 from noon until I got home at 2:00 a.m. I encountered young and old alike focused on t.v.'s and had ears turned to radios in the shops where I stopped. Saw lovely flag displays along the interstate and not one single "No War" slogan.

Bless our troops and their families.

SLW
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SLW - I was touched late last week to see that my small mid-western town has brought out the Memorial Day flags. A couple of years ago, when they rejuvinated downtown with the Main Street USA program, they encouraged local businesses to purchase these flags - all are exactly alike, size, flagpole color, etc. The city stores them and puts them up and takes them down on appropriate occaisions. They are up, and they are beautiful. They went up after 9/11 and remained until the Taliban were removed from power.

And I cannot find one sign protesting the war here, either.

********
Proud to be an American!

Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here, our town square is lined w/ flags. Isn't that a cool thing. I **think** that it was in Sioux City, Iowa where two businesses right along the interstate had very large flags flying- one of the business had three. There was a strong wind out of the west which made the flags clearly visable. Being Iowa it could simply be a normal display of patriotism on the other hand, they were mid-west BIG flags.

SLW

[Snowbird]

Respect for the icon that represents the blessings we all have from a handful of daring men with a uniques and original design for a government of free people.

Sure it's not perfect and there are bumps along the way, and we make mistakes but this is our country and that flag should always be respected and honored and treasured. We live in a country where so many people want to come and live with us. We even welcome our illegal aliens because basically this is a kind country.

Battle Scarred Veteran

[Snowbird]

A MUST READ
The President of the Iraqi Olympic Committee and his interesting training methods.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_...son_of_saddam/

Battle Scarred Veteran

[Anne FS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albion:
I don't know Canterlope.

Many people have been suprised at the amount of resistance our forces have been met with.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't believe this. What did people THINK would happen? I think the military knew exactly what to expect; they know this stuff is never easy and they've been saying for years how tough the Republican Guard is. Somebody was on the other day (Sen. McCain?) and he said he was talking to a congressman who said "this war may drag on a long time; it may be months." !!!! McCain pointed out how ridiculous that was, to say months like it was ages.

Again, I've read a lot about this, watched a lot of reports, I had a father, father-in-law, brother, brother-in-law (Air Force, Army, and Navy)plus other family members and friends in the military; I've volunteered with AmCross re: military matters for 11 years, and guess what? The military folks are not surprised by any of this stuff. These people know what they're doing. They are not surprised that war means ugly, tough fighting. I think those 'surprised' that there is actually fighting & death don't know squat.

[lauriep]

I heard this morning that if you think back, it isn't the Pentagon, the military or even GWB that have EVER said this would be a cakewalk. They know, and they also know that unexpected things can happen at any time.

They are expecting 1000 casualties in the assault on Baghdad.

Laurie

[Midge]

Lauriep, I saw a CNN poll this morning that showed roughly a third think the war will be over in under a month and another third in one to three months. Couple that with the 44% who think casualties will be under 100 and no wonder this war has such support!

Then there's the group who think 90% of the Iraqi people are just waiting for us to come in and bomb the crap out of their country and throw flowers on our soldiers.
So everyone in the Middle East hates America, except for the Iraqis? Please, we are attacking THEM, no matter how we couch it.

****
Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Albion]

Gee Anne FS, since I come from a military family (father, uncle, step-father, grandfathes, and many, many friends), too, any my mother's office is full of military people who deal with this EVERY DAY since yes, there ARE a lot of Nat'l Guard over there & she's in the Public Affairs division of the Guard Bureau, you're not the only one with "experience" with military matters.

Again, I don't think the military quite knew what to expect. Do you REALLY think ANYONE in the military is going to get on TV & go 'Uh, yeah, this is going a little rougher than expected.' Hell no, that's not the American military way.

They may not have expected a cakewalk, but I don't think they were expecting this.

That's MY opinion, based on MY readings & information, and MY family. I'm not trying to change YOUR opinion. Yeah, I guess I AM going to give more weight to the opinions of those I know with years of experience either in the military or as military historians than whatever I read on this BB. Just like you can hold YOUR experiences/etc. in higher regard.

Again, I'll be curious to read the material that will come out 5+ years down the road.

-Albion

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[Anne FS]

Albion, so are you saying that the Natl. Guard people your mother works with are actually saying that the military didn't expect tough fighting and that our military is surprised at how things are going?

Is this active Guard or reservists?

[Czar]

Snowbird...I thought that that article was eye-opening but was disappointed to see the date of the publication. I'm very careful of what I read and believe as I do not want to buy into any propaganda. I just found it a little unsettling to see that this article was just published now, when it seemed from the article itself that these things happened a while back. I don't doubt it's truth...but I wonder why this would not have been addressed when the events took place? It really makes me uneasy to only know one side of the story - if I could...I would like to go myself to Iraq to get a personal insight into how the Iraqis are feeling. I really distrust the media for either cause b/c they all want to sway the masses to their own side - whether that be pro-war or anti-war.

[Anne FS]

Saudi Arabia's first English language daily is available at www.ArabNews.com

You can read what the MidEast is reading.

[lauriep]

Those damn polls, again...

The interview I heard this morning said that the military always HOPED that the regime would capitulate with little resistance, but that they have always understood the reality of what the fight would probably be. The interviewee was a high ranking officer at the Pentagon. If they intended to try to keep the realities from us, do you really think they would have permitted the embedding of a huge number of media right smack dab in the middle of things? Not.

Albion, we learned a lot from the VietNam experience and I believe that the military KNOWS that the American public isn't going to be lied to again the way we were then. I don't think they LIKE to give us the information, but I think they will. There are simply too many other sources for us to get it from now, and for them to try to downplay or lie about the situation will only be slitting their own throats.

IMHO.

Laurie

[Albion]

Anne FS, they're saying that our military has been suprised with the amount of resistance being met.

They're also suprised by the craftiness of the Iraqis this time around.

No, I don't think the military was expecting POWs and such this early - if at all.

And before anyone goes off and tries to insinuate that the Nat'l Guard is the cowards way out of the regular Army/Air Force & this somehow reflects on my mother's opinions, I'd like to remind you that there are lots of Guardsmen who have been called up.

Look, when military people who just happen to be military historians are suprised, yeah, I do think that's symptomatic of a broader "Wow, we didn't know THAT was going to happen" in the military. Historians are better than most than taking the past & applying it to the present/future. When you throw in people that know what combat is like and they, too, are suprised, well ...

that's fine if Gen. Franks is up on TV saying everything's going fantabulously. Like I keep saying, I'm waiting to see what documents/internal papers/classified material comes out a few years down the road when the rest of America has all but forgotten about the conflict.

-Albion

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[Pixie Dust]

I was just assuming that re: the casualties that people were comparing it to the first gulf war. I think the US may have it in their collective heads that we can conduct a war without casualties.

I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf