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War -- It has Started.

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  • It's not an issue unless we see him abuse it. I have no objection anyone knowing my reading list, tapping into my emails or filming me when I shop in town.

    If however my liberty to do what I wish is in jeopardy right now; it is from people who adamantly insist they have the only correct way to live long and prosper. We have always been free to do what we want and now we are not because there are those want to take away our liberty in other ways. I choose to enjoy my years and pay very heavy sin taxes for the pleasure of my cigarettes and my bottle of wine. It is my choice if I prefer not to take the risk of living too long, that's a worse invasion of my rights.

    We've lost our liberties with all those who have decided what we must eat, how we must eat and what is good for us to do and created the stupid taboos about things that are my decision to make.

    I am much more concerned about by "Do Good" Big Brother than I am Ashcroft. There is nothing left in life that's safe except cotton balls and q-tips and q-tips are a little questionable.

    We have this paranoid baby boomer healthy society so everyone can live long, but then we don't want to support them when they are old so what to do with generations that live to be 125 will the dilemma of the next generation and not mine. And, if they are healthy for too long how will the young people get jobs? Just another paradox of humanity.

    Battle Scarred Veteran
    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
      dcm

      As this very thoughtful thread has proven, the "Love it or Leave it" philosophy not only doesn't fly, but is absolutely contrary to what this country stands for.

      If that were the mantra that we had to live under, we might as well become Iraquis.

      Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Sorry, lauriep. My emotional self got away. I get frustrated with the naivity of our youth sometimes. Even my 16 yr old dtr feels the same. When she attempts to educate her friends at school, they have vapors everytime she uses words with more than 2 syllables.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by ClaraLuisa
      I think an appropriate patriotic attitude at this point might include sadness and concern for the future. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Ditto here.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Snowbird
      I am much more concerned about by "Do Good" Big Brother than I am Ashcroft. There is nothing left in life that's safe except cotton balls and q-tips and q-tips are a little questionable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Snowbird, you are great! I will never look at my q-tips quite so innocently again.

      Okay, I am truely leaving now....

      ********
      Proud to be an American!

      Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
        Well put Louise, and I too am very proud to be an American. I think it is wrong that our flag can be desicrated in the name of art or free speech. Some things should be above that and the Flag and the Bible are examples.

        _Battle Scarred Veteran_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        The flag is an icon - a representation of our country. That means it belongs to all of us. If we feel that our country is speaking for us in a way we either agree or disagree with we are all able to use that representation as part of our speech.

        Is a ripped flag that has been hanging off of someone's car radio antenna for 18 months a desicration? How about a flag with the grid of stars replaced by a pattern of stars in a peace sign? How about a flag that has red paint on it representing the blood of those injured or killed in war? How about a flag tube top and worn by a 14 year old girl to match her red, white and blue strappy shoes?

        Does it depend on intention? Does it depend on the beliefs of the person who carries, wears it?

        Comment


        • Just on another note. I have to say how much I appreciate this forum. I don't know anyone who supports this war (and that includes the people I know who are in the military since that seems to be considered a given here) - I've even tried to engage people I don't know in conversation about it and have yet to find anyone who supports the war. (I probably have patients who support it but it's not something I would bring up in that situation!) So, it's interesting to read the comments of those who do.

          I'm truly still waiting for someone to say something that will give me a glimmer of hope for this whole thing, a reason to believe that this is the correct course of action. So far the only thing I agree with is that Saddam Hussein is a bad person who should not be the leader of a country. It's, as someone else said, maybe 10% worth. If I thought that was the real reason for the war maybe I'd have that 10% of confidence too.

          Anyway, keep saying why you want us to be there and I'll keep reading. Sure do appreciate the people who realize that this isn't black and white, isn't a patriotic duty to support the president just because kind of thing. Heck, guys, this is the horse world, we don't agree on much....

          Comment


          • Pinkhorse You say you are looking for signs that this war is the right thing to do? How about the images of the Iraqi people running up to the soldiers as they come thru kissing them,cheering as they tear down Sodamn Insanes posters,etc?? It was enough for me although I do feel for the innocents in Baghdad who must be terrified with all that bombing going on but thats war and I can only hope that the coalition is real careful about what they are blowing up and that if Sodamn is still alive that they find him soon and do away with him and his brutal regime!
            POG MO THON other nations may swear,but the Irish really mean it.

            Comment


            • Funny story - when talking with my SO last night... Two trips ago, when attempting to fly into Killeen, my flight out of Houston was cancelled at the last moment. We were instructed to get our bags and either attempt to get a later flight to Austin or wait until the following day. I knew my SO would not be able, or it would be very difficult for a variety of reason, to drive to Austin late at night to pick me up (about 1 1/2 hours from Fort Hood).

              So, I started networking with others waiting in line, trying to re-schedule our flights. Most of the people were headed to Fort Hood and several offered me rides from their SO's who were able to meet the flight in Austin. I made friends with several of them and accepted a ride from one very nice young lady's SO, who was an officer who had just been shipped to Fort Hood, awaiting his imminent deployment. She was also an officer, but from a different State.

              They were so very nice and delivered me right to my SO's door, for which we were both extremely grateful.

              Anyway, this young lady was deployed to Kuwait and is on the move now, with my SO's SON!!!! My SO received a letter from his son yesterday, dated approximately 2 weeks ago, that he'd met this young lady and had heard about the story. Tis a very small world. May they all return safely.

              "I can justify anything!"
              \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

              Comment


              • Wow, what a great story, Duffy! It really is a small world.

                I've been sending good thoughts to your SO's son in Kuwait- hoping he makes it home safe and sound.

                Comment


                • hope this hasn't been posted before but those interested can make a donation to the USO and they'll send a care package in your name along with a message from you. If you want to show support, it's good way to spend $25.

                  USO donations

                  __________________________
                  If you cheapskate me into hell, I'll haunt you good
                  Still Crazy After All These Years

                  Comment


                  • Thanks, Astraled- that's a great idea!

                    Comment


                    • I just wanted to say thanks for this thread too... I believe our troops and our president deserve our respect and support - not the bickering and fighting they are certainly hearing about. My thoughts and best wishes (don't want to say prayers because I feel for me to say that would be ironic at best ) to those that are in the fight or are headed that way. And for the record I, personally, am for this war. I think SH needs to be removed by any means necessary. Yes, people are going to die, and for that I am sorry. But if nothing is done, the casualties he has already racked up will just keep increasing - through the end of his regime and that of his sons to follow - if they are not stopped. I just regret that it has taken us this long.

                      And I thought the fact that he was firing scuds at us - weapons he professed to NOT have - was all the justification anyone would need... Oh well...

                      (ps - the sig line is from a local song - it's bush's response to bin laden saying we haven't caught him.)

                      ******************************
                      I'm George W. You know what the "W" stands for??? YET.
                      Not all who wander are lost.

                      Comment


                      • OK, what I think I was trying to do was make a point. A point of which I didn't get along too well as I rarely ever do on the Internet. So, without further ado, I apologize for not clearly writing what I was thinking. An honest mistake by my part.

                        To the person (I am sorry, I can't remeber who it was at this moment) who said that I should read why the U.S. invaded these countries that I mentioned... I, truthfully, have only watched an EXCELLENT documentary about the Panama invasion with people that were ACTULLY there when the U.S. invaded their city. It was a lot worse than the U.S. would ever adimit it to be.

                        dcm, you sound like a lovely woman, but I don't wish to be called a youth. It's personal and highly offensive to me. I admit that what I wrote was not the most clearly thought out thing in the world to post on this board, but I was just trying to write what I was feeling at the time. Obviously, I screwed up with that. People make mistakes!

                        Sigh, I admit I never should have said anything because obviously someone who hasn't been alive for more than twenty years doesn't deserve to post on this particular thread on this BB, which I find sad.

                        lauriep, good point.

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PepTalk:
                          ... I, truthfully, have only watched an EXCELLENT documentary about the Panama invasion with people that were ACTULLY there when the U.S. invaded their city. It was a lot worse than the U.S. would ever adimit it to be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          PepTalk, are you making the suggestion that the US invasion of Panama was wrong or just in your suggestion heavy handed? As I recall, and you can easily glance at this link, it was Banana Republic despot Manuel Noriega who officially said Panama was in a State of War against the United States to which we took the ball and ran with it - extracting him and removing his cronies.

                          The casualties and property damage in very large part were from the civil unrest by Panamanian citizens and crooked Panamanian soldiers.

                          Ironically even France filed criminal charges against Noriega and asked for extradition. Of course this from a country that allows Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier to enjoy without recourse the fruits of his crimes and looting.

                          Comment


                          • Pinkhorse, how many people have you ASKED? Polls show almost 75% of Americans support the war...trouble is, most of that 75% have better things to do than give policemen grief by walking around protesting. YES, I know it is a dearly-held right to do so, and YES I would have that right upheld, but oy, have these protestors nothing better to do???

                            Who heard on NPR today the Iraqi ex-pats who were nonplussed at the protests, simply unable to believe these people (the protestors) could in good conscience protest something they (the Iraqis) were so grateful was finally happening?

                            I add my prayers to those of many others: that now that it has started the war will be quick and accomplish the goals it was launched to achieve.

                            "If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
                            Kelly
                            Bonnie
                            Gwen
                            Click here before you buy.

                            Comment


                            • Peptalk (and others) I am sharing a letter to the editor which was in our local paper earlier in the month, the message has merit because the perspective is from an immigrant who is now about 60 years old. It's interesting to see his point of view.

                              And you keep posting girl! It's not about being "right or wrong"...

                              War with Iraq is a viable option- 3/5/03 Miami County Republic, Paola, Kansas

                              I am a product of American foreign policy, American values, American resolve, American heroism, American generosity and American goodness.

                              Born in post-war Germany in 1950, I can claim most assuredly that, if it would not be for America, I would be speaking Russian today and live in a Europe frozen in time through the incapacitation of communism just like East Germany was till the Berlin Wall came down.
                              Show me the country America invaded and kept for its own benefit.

                              Show me the country America has oppressed.

                              Show me the country America has enslaved.

                              Show me the country and the people America has brutally condemned to suffer under its rule and supremacy.
                              You won't be able to show me a square mile on this planet.
                              Yet, I have seen the evil that a brutal dictatorship can bring to bear on a people. I have listened to the stories and visited the sacred places of human suffering brought upon a people by the lust of power of a few.

                              How fast do we forget?

                              From the oppression of the Roman Empire to Attila the Hun, from Napoleon to, yes, the Spanish and the British Crown, from the Crusades to Hitler and Stalin, this world has bled through the brutal quest of a few to gain power over the many.
                              But the world has changed the last 200 years. Why?

                              America has risen to become the power that stands for freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. For good over evil.

                              It is not without inner struggle. Liberalism is trying to decay the American values from within by casting the majority of the people into dependency of the higher authority of the government and the wishes of a few. Celebrities are trying to find a deeper meaning to their shallow lives by becoming advocates for evil in mocking the Christian morals that so gallantly stood for two centuries as the foundation to the deeply rooted goodness of this great nation.

                              The blood of millions of innocent children is covering our nation's soul because the spark of life came at an inopportune time to women who claimed their mantra of freedom of choice, not realizing that a civilized people can make this choice prior to conception.

                              But as always, America will overcome again and again.
                              We do not go to war to conquer but to liberate from evil. We do not go to war to oppress but to free people from oppression.

                              Our struggle is a battle between good and evil. Good better be strong and determined, or evil will prevail.

                              I totally disagree with the appeasers and anti-war voices, but I cherish the fact that I live in a country where they can speak their mind.

                              It is ironic that the anti-war voices do not believe that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, yet they are convinced that they will use these very weapons that they supposedly do not have against us in retaliation.

                              God bless America

                              Editor's note: Hannes Poetter is a Paola businessman and a naturalized U.S. citizen.***

                              SLW

                              Comment


                              • I just found this posted on another BB. Some might find it of interest.

                                From United Press International
                                By Arnaud de Borchgrave
                                UPI Editor at Large

                                ......."A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head......"

                                COMPLETE ARTICLE:
                                http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...1-023627-5923r
                                ---------------------------
                                This too, shall pass.
                                If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
                                Desmond Tutu

                                Comment


                                • The easiest thing is to get a group together AGAINST almost anything including that children should drink milk.

                                  It's easier to pull down anything than it is to build it.

                                  Yes! a minority of people without much to do will spend a Saturday afternoon socializing with friends and if it happens to be a protest well! yippee we might get the cops to do something stupid and be on the 6 PM news on television. If you had the opportunity or wanted to discuss the issues with them you couldn't because they are parrots quoting a mantra being manipulated by malcontents.

                                  OH! Louise that gave me chills! Yes! those protestors are the kind that would watch a murder and not call the police!They are the neighbors who hear a woman being beaten to death and complain about the noise. They are the people who see children abused and do nothing. But, let someone try to do a right thing and they're right there opposing any idea. They live in this country safe in their cuccoon and believing the police are the enemy.

                                  Battle Scarred Veteran
                                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                  Comment


                                  • If any of you want to help the soldiers fighting for this most noble cause. There is a website called OperationShoeBox.com that will give you a printable list of items solders need(toothpast, q-tips, TP things like that). You can send the boxes to them and they forward and hand them out to soldiers.
                                    My dad is a retired servicemember and he said that sending those things means alot to them.
                                    Moderators- not trying to advertise here, I was just thinking sometimes people want to do something to help, they just don't know what or how and this is a legit site. Thanks!

                                    Comment


                                    • Thanks, Phoenix! I've been wondering what I could do on a small, individual level to make a soldier (or marine, or...) or two have a brighter day. Now I know!

                                      "If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
                                      Kelly
                                      Bonnie
                                      Gwen
                                      Click here before you buy.

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> To the person (I am sorry, I can't remeber who it was at this moment) who said that I should read why the U.S. invaded these countries that I mentioned... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        That was me.

                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sigh, I admit I never should have said anything because obviously someone who hasn't been alive for more than twenty years doesn't deserve to post on this particular thread on this BB, which I find sad.
                                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Peptalk, I never said that because of your age, you don't deserve to post on this particular thread. What I did say was, because of your age, you may not have the full story behind the events that you commented upon. The majority of them took place while you were very young. So, unless you were either interested in world affairs at a very early age or you have extensively researched each of these events, your knowledge of all that occurred at these times would be very limited. The fact that you were trying to make a point, but your point was not well supported by the examples you used, leads one to believe that this is so.

                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        A dog has one master, a cat has an entire staff.
                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?

                                        Comment


                                        • With these imbedded reporters, (I'm speaking about the one with the 3 7th Cav right now), he's making it sound like there are SOOOO many armored vehicles, Bradley's, Tanks, etc.... In reality this is SOOOOO not the case, especially when you compare this war to Desert Storm.

                                          The typical armored brigade was approximately 180 in numbers during Desert Storm and there were, from what I recall, at least a dozen of them. (I could be low in that number of brigades.)

                                          "I can justify anything!"
                                          \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                                          Comment

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