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URGENT ACTION NEEDED TODAY! Update: Anti slaughter amendment vote today!!! 9/14

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  • ok, they are advocating a vegetarian or vegan diet-but note:

    "Whatever you choose—to eat a few more meatless meals a week, to eat only humanely raised meat, or to eliminate all animal products—you have many options that will help you reach your goals. We commend you for your efforts!"

    doesn't sound extremist to me.

    i don't think that the more extreme advocates for animals tolerate the idea of humanely raised meat, but i could be wrong.

    anyway, thanks for the link!

    Comment


    • Not to hijack the thread, or anything, but while we're on the subject...
      Avoiding animal products is very, very difficult!! The last two months have been a huge test of my commitment to avoid animal products all together! They sneak stuff in everywhere, even shampoo!
      You can go to the health food stores where you can find animal free products clearly labeled, but if you're shopping in a regular grocery or drug store, it's nearly impossible to not grab something that contains some sort of by-product. Have you ever noticed how hard it is to find non-casienated cheese?
      This has been a hugely expensive committment, I must say!
      DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

      Comment


      • I compliment you bjrudq for giving your opinions of both sides without jumping on county as the others have. Both him and brijet have been attacked for only expressing their views and quite honestly they have been very civilin their responses. I have never sent a horse to slaughter and probably would never send one. I still have not made up my mind completely on the horse slaughter issue but I have always detested people that try to tell me how to raise my livestock and what to do with them. I raise cattle, not a lot 20-25 head a year. I am very proud of the fact that I even with my small herd provide beef for approximately 150 people per year. Not to mention the by products that we find in almost everything we use. I don't do it for the money. I do it because I enjoy working with livestock any kind. Do I think that the animal rights people have an agenda. You bet. It was mentioned earlier on this thread about one of the problems is that there are to many horses bred in this country and that we should eliminate some cruel horse sports. Is this an agenda?I think so. What defines cruel horse sports ? Rodeo(easy to pick on since its just a bunch of dumb cowboys anyway right?) racing multiple breakdowns etc, eventing(just look at the videos from the Olympic's) Saddleseat(broken tails,heavy shoes long toes, tail set harnesses etc), H/J(jumping dangerous jumps) Dressage (absolutely no freedom of movement as it appears to a none horse person) etc. What does that leave us? There have been several mentions of factory farming and keeping farm animals confined. What is keeping a horse at a commercial stable? Is this not factory farming and confinement? Here is a herd animal that is used to the plains much more so then a cow, pig, or chicken and we keep most of them in a 10x12 or a 12x12 stall for 23 hours a day. Take a look at a commercial stable set on 5 maybe 10 acres or less with 50,60 or 100 horses on or a race track that may have upwards of 3000 horses during a meet,all confined in stalls. Can you tell me the difference between that and a commercial confinement farm. Oh yeah they are not going to slaughter!!! But is it cruel to these horses? Maybe not to you but how about that camera crew that somebody mentioned. They go through take the pics of horses wearing cribbing collars,kick chains, tail harnesses,manure piles, maybe the vets out and they have to twitch a horse(that would make a great pic). In other words the non horse, non animal public can be made to believe anything by some pictures and a good ad campaign. I know that I drifted of the subject but I believe that it is all related. Remember that old saying "What goes around comes around" and be carefull who you sleep with.

        Comment


        • yes, but this is where i disagree with you: the "slippery slope" argument is used all the time to justify doing nothing about a particular issue. it holds no water for me.

          the pro slaughter advocates always point to the extremists as a reason to not be anti slaughter.(boy i sure am butchering the english language this morning.) being against slughter means that the next thing you know , riding will be banned.(i don't think so. but people who ride and show in public should be aware that they are being watched. and i think you will agree that there are plenty of instances of poor sportsmanship and damaging riding out there that do not help the public perception.)

          but in any movement, there are going to be extremists. the existence of extremists does not invalidate the movement.

          hubert humphrey became mayor of minneapolis with the support of the communist party, as well as the democratic farmer labor party and the labor unions. horse slaughter will end with the support of PETA, as well as those caring horsepeople who are opposed to it.

          the radical element often exposes injustices that the rest of us can work to correct without becoming radicals ourselves. that's the way things change. imo

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lildunhorse:
            Not to hijack the thread, or anything, but while we're on the subject...
            Avoiding animal products is very, very difficult!! The last two months have been a huge test of my commitment to avoid animal products all together! They sneak stuff in everywhere, even shampoo!
            You can go to the health food stores where you can find animal free products clearly labeled, but if you're shopping in a regular grocery or drug store, it's nearly impossible to not grab something that contains some sort of by-product. Have you ever noticed how hard it is to find non-casienated cheese?
            This has been a hugely expensive committment, I must say! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
            I might be missing something here, but isn't cheese an animal product?
            I wasn't always a Smurf
            Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
            "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
            The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LNG:&lt;SNIP&gt;
              In other words the non horse, non animal public can be made to believe anything by some pictures and a good ad campaign. I know that I drifted of the subject but I believe that it is all related. Remember that old saying "What goes around comes around" and be carefull who you sleep with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
              This is a point that I have tried (and obviously failed) to make.
              It's been a while and I forget the details but a while back there was legislation pending in MD that would have banned coersive devices on horses. Sounds harmless, doesn't it?

              Well, a whip is coersion, isn't it?

              How about a bit?

              Maybe even a halter?

              Your paddock fence?
              I wasn't always a Smurf
              Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
              "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
              The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

              Comment


              • Just one more thing to ad. I don't believe that with the end of slaughter that we will see a lot of starving horses. However that same person who would send a horse to slaughter (and I am not stereotypeing anybody) may not have the means or the willingness to pay a vet to euthanize a horse nor a pick up fee for the renderer. Here in Kentucky the county pays the PU fee but when I lived in Illinois it was $125 to pu a horse and that was 5 years ago. You combine that with a vet fee of about the same amount and its a lot of money for many people. Yeah the arguement can be made that they shouldn't have horses but they will anyway. Many people will take that horse out back and put a bullet in its head and haul the carcass into a ditch, or grind it up and feed it to the dogs. And there is nothing that anybody can do about it. So what have gained.

                Comment


                • well, it is probably illegal to leave a horse in a ditch, especially if there are neighbors. so enforcing that law shouldn't be a problem. of course there will be people who violate it; there are people who violate it now.

                  as far as shooting an old suffering horse and feeding it to dogs; i don't have a problem with that if it's done humanely.

                  not every anti slaughter person thinks a horse should be put ain a casket and entombed or cremated and put in an urn. heck, i don't even think people should be disposed of that way.

                  so waht we gain is discouraging and/or stopping raising horses specifically for slaughter; inhumane treatment of horses who go to slaughter; and perhaps fewer sound useable horses being disposed of by killing.

                  being against slaughter has nothing to do with legislation to protect horses from coercive devices. most of us who are in active horse sports can see the difference.

                  instead of legislative banning of the use of coercive devices we would do better to enforce our own rules of horsemanship among ourselves, instead of looking the other way when someone uses excessive force on their animal. if we did, maybe the whacko types wouldn't feel a need to propose legislation.

                  the argument can be turned around, you know. the whackos could say, how much can these people really care about horses when they advocate their slaughter after lifetime of service? they are just willing to run their animal through an auction or even sell their "friend" to the meat man-for a few hundred dollars they let their "friend" be transported in horrible conditions to a frightening and painful end.

                  that doesn't sound very good either.

                  people who care about their horses will give them a fitting end and people who don't, won't-regardless of whether there is slaughter or not. but why make it easy for them, and even pay them?

                  Comment


                  • Farm ditchs across this country are littered with the carcasss of farm animals that have died on farms. You can find bones almost anywhere.

                    Comment


                    • i don't see that where i live. if there are carcasses-they are back from the road.

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bjrudq:&lt;SNIP&gt;
                        as far as shooting an old suffering horse and feeding it to dogs; i don't have a problem with that if it's done humanely.

                        &lt;SNIP&gt;
                        </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                        Some foxhunts will take old horses to feed the hounds. My old pony will go that way this winter. I had the vet put my old (38 YO) horse to "sleep" and I believe that was far more traumatic to him than a clean shot to the brain.
                        I wasn't always a Smurf
                        Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                        Comment


                        • I live in about as farm country as it gets and can say I've yet to see any dead animals laying in ditches other then wildlife that hit by a car. Why would anyone want a dead animal laying in a ditch by their property regardless of where they live? This township has over 1,000,000 turkeys, 45,000 head of cattle, and 5,000 head of horses. I've yet to see even one dead one of any species laying in a ditch here.
                          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                          Comment


                          • I am not talking about ditchs on the side of the road iam talking about the back woods, ravines etc. Every farm I have owned (3 now) and every farm that I have hiked, or looked at I have come across bones etc. That is not that uncommon.

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bjrudq:
                              i don't see that where i live. if there are carcasses-they are back from the road. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                              I know some of the farmers drag their dead cows into the woods. I've done it myself with the occasional sheep.
                              I wasn't always a Smurf
                              Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                              "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                              The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                              Comment


                              • I don't feel if slaughter ends there will be more horses starved either. People that starve or abuse livestock do so regardless. I do think you'll see more horses hauled somewhere and turned loose like state land and parks we've already had cases like that here. One thing slaughter does is set the bottom indicator for horse prices. If you know for sure you can get say $300 for the horse you have from a meat buyer then thats the bottom price you start at when selling. Take that away and there is no bottom indicator some horses that no one wants become worth nothing. And where do they go? Alot of them end up killed just to have them dead to me a much more disgusting thing then slaughter. They become like H.S. that kill just to kill.
                                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                Comment


                                • Some drag dead abnimals into woods etc. here most dig a hole and bury them I know I do. Why would anyone want a dead stinking carcass around is beyond me.
                                  Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
                                    Some drag dead abnimals into woods etc. here most dig a hole and bury them I know I do. Why would anyone want a dead stinking carcass around is beyond me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                    With the buzzards and scavengers they are gone in two days or so. They are usually found at a distance from the house, barn, etc. or at least that is how Murphy has worked for me.
                                    When you find a ewe that has been killed by a coyote and is not all there and what is there is crawling with maggots and the only way you found her is by smell and the buzzards and you can't get the loader to her you don't have much choice.
                                    I wasn't always a Smurf
                                    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They become like H.S. that kill just to kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                      i don't know what this means?

                                      Comment


                                      • Like a Humane Society that kills dogs and cats just to get rid of them. They kill just to kill at least slaughtered livestock are killed for a purpose.
                                        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
                                          Like a Humane Society that kills dogs and cats just to get rid of them. They kill just to kill at least slaughtered livestock are killed for a purpose. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                          Two PETA employees were recently charged with numerous counts of animal cruelty and improper disposal of dead animals when they were caught dumping dead dogs and cats in a resteraunt dumpster. They had picked up the animals from various sources in NC and killed them.
                                          I wasn't always a Smurf
                                          Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                          Comment

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