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a bit of a horse shopping rant....

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  • a bit of a horse shopping rant....

    So I am looking for a new horse, and I am looking for a ftgh situation. As I peruse the usual sites I am getting frustrated big time. I know what I am looking for is out there, I see the ads all of the time when I am not looking. However, now it is hard. And then when I do find an ad that matches, I get frustrated because the sellers post pics of the horse jumping different jumps, doing all these great dressage moved whatever only to put in the ad that the horse can no longer do these things because of some injury.
    Ok, I get that people want to market their horse's best qualities but don't advertise it doing something it should nor do anymore. You are misrepresenting your horse and if you are showing that it used to be able to do these things, you are setting it up to find new owners who believe it still can despite your efforts to explain why it can't. Don't advertise something if it can not do it. It's not fair to the horse and certainly not to the buyer, that is if the seller even truly cares about the match in the first place.

  • #2
    In all fairness, wouldn't you expect a 'free-to-good-home' to have issues such as injuries or age? To my mind I don't expect alot of people are giving away athletic, perfectly healthy horses for free.

    I expect if that's the market I'm looking in that I'm going to be wading through a lot of chaff to get to those grains of corn.

    JMO
    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

    Comment


    • #3
      You are looking for a FREE horse. Generally speaking, you are not going to find a highly trained, sound, sane, healthy horse that easily. I'm not saying you can't, but it is going to take a good bit of looking.

      As for photos -- this may be what the giver has available. Personally, unless the giver is grossly misrepresenting what the horse can or cannot do, I don't see why an older photo is an issue.

      As the taker, just like any buyer, you need to ask all the questions your can as well as inspect and try the horse out personally. I am fortunate that I don't have to give away my horses, but I certainly would want to meet and view the possible match first, as well as check references.
      Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
      http://www.ironwood-farm.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I am in a position to buy a horse currently and am horse shopping as well. I just had my run-in with a nutcase seller. She had an ad online for a horse that fit the bill. I told her I would come out to check out the horse, but I would not be bringing a truck and trailer with me since a friend would be hauling. I told her this three times.

        I show up to her house, and it's a very steep dirt driveway that my car is barely able to navigate (since it's not AWD.) When I get there, she comes out, mad as a hornet asking why I didn't bring a truck and trailer with me so I could just take them home tonight. I reminded her of the fact I didn't have a trailer.

        She shows me the horse, and it looks like it had been in a warn and was very visibly lame. Why was she in a war? Because someone tried to load her (this horse was supposed to be an 'easy loader') and she reared up, banged her head, fell over backwards, and scraped her legs. Why was she lame? "She gets like that sometimes. I don't know why." I asked why she hadn't mentioned this in the for sale ad, and she said, "well she wasn't lame when I posted the ad."

        I thanked her for her time, and I said based on her condition and the fact that she is visibly lame which seems to be a chronic issue, I wasn't interested. She mumbled something about 'tire kickers' under her breath, but I left.

        I was seriously interested. I actually had cash in my vehicle, but when I showed up to a horse scraped beyond belief (that was supposed to load like a dream) and visibly lame (as a chronic issue,) how does that make ME a "tire kicker?"

        I wish she would have called me yesterday and said, "my mare is lame - you can come out and look at her, but it's up to you," that would have been dandy. I wouldn't have driven 2 hours round trip after working all day.
        If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
        DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
        Originally posted by talkofthetown
        As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.

        Comment


        • #5
          The term "tire kicker" irritates the heck out of me. It makes buyers sound like we should not shop, we should not look around, and if we come to your horse we better take it right away. I'm sorry, but who shops like that? Do you buy the first car you see? Did you buy the first house you walked into the first time you walked into the house? Even when you know what store you're going to for a specific item it's because you've done some research before hand.

          Yet if I come to your farm to see your horse and decide not to buy your horse I'm a tire kicker. Really? Compound this with "best light" ads that don't represent the horse in RL. That doesn't help.

          Okay, I guess that was a bit of a rant. As you were.

          Paula
          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

          Comment


          • #6
            There are certainly "tire kickers" out there......the ones who want to come ride your horse for free and then never hear back from them or waste your time asking a million questions on the internet and never come out or come out and ride and then offer you 1/3 what you are asking. Those are tire kickers.

            OP....people usually don't just give away highly trained show horses unless there is a reason they cannot sell them. Some people like to show what the mares once looked like so people can indeed see that they are high quality broodmare prospects. Nothing wrong with that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Depending on where you are and what you are looking for, and if you can afford *something* - there are always strange options. For example right now the Iowa State University vet school is preparing to take the batch of horses they've had in for a while to auction. Most are decent, donated horses, that they will sell privately for a couple hundred dollars before the auction. The reason I know this is because our rescue was contacted by a woman who donated her thoroughbreds to the college only to find out they would go to auction or she'd have to buy them back, and she's too far away to arrange shipping, so she asked us if we would take them in.
              If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude.
              ~ Maya Angelou

              Comment


              • #8
                I think, at least in my part of the country, the term "tire kicker" is misused by lots of folks. As Paula said, there are sellers out there who don't want questions asked, don't want you to shop around, and you had better come with truck and trailer that day (or night) or else...you're a tire kicker.

                Someone coming, cash in hand, sales agreement, and asking legitimate questions then deciding not to purchase your horse because 1) it's lame, 2) wasn't as advertised is not a tire kicker. It's called being a buyer.

                Not like I am looking for a show horse or anything: just a sound and sane mount for trails! lol

                FWIW, I did find a gem on CL this morning that I can only guess is a child:
                Wanted thoroughbred or warmblood, want for eventing, must be at least 15.2 hands, can only spend free to $200.
                If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
                DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
                Originally posted by talkofthetown
                As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HydroPHILE View Post
                  I think, at least in my part of the country, the term "tire kicker" is misused by lots of folks. As Paula said, there are sellers out there who don't want questions asked, don't want you to shop around, and you had better come with truck and trailer that day (or night) or else...you're a tire kicker.

                  Someone coming, cash in hand, sales agreement, and asking legitimate questions then deciding not to purchase your horse because 1) it's lame, 2) wasn't as advertised is not a tire kicker. It's called being a buyer.

                  Not like I am looking for a show horse or anything: just a sound and sane mount for trails! lol
                  Come out and look at some then! We'll entertain your "tire kicking" self all day long

                  Originally posted by HydroPHILE View Post
                  FWIW, I did find a gem on CL this morning that I can only guess is a child:
                  Wanted thoroughbred or warmblood, want for eventing, must be at least 15.2 hands, can only spend free to $200.
                  We get this all the time. I don't think people realize that most of the time the seller of a horse paid money to buy the horse and then paid to feed and train the horse during the time of ownership... Our usual response is "we're looking for the same thing, let us know if you find one!"
                  Southern Cross Guest Ranch
                  An All Inclusive Guest Ranch Vacation - Georgia

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I drove 180 miles round trip only to have a seller refuse to sell to me because she decided that the horse she described as a perfect child's horse and suitable for a beginner really shouldn't go to a beginner. Thanks crazy lady.

                    I have a huge problem with people trying to get hundreds of dollars for a 25 yo plus horse that has faithfully served them, but is lame and only suitable for kids to walk. Thats a helluva nice thanks to an animal that gave you his all
                    Originally posted by The Saddle
                    Perhaps I need my flocking adjusted.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                      The term "tire kicker" irritates the heck out of me. It makes buyers sound like we should not shop, we should not look around, and if we come to your horse we better take it right away.
                      Hear hear!!

                      I don't inquire on horses often however I do browse often and when one especially catches my attention, I might inquire via phone or email. I'm only shopping very casually, but if the price and the horse is right (ie, good price and good potential in the horse), I might just take the horse home. The only way to know is to ask. Technically I'd certainly be labeled a 'tire kicker' by definition probably... but just because I am not actually shopping for something specific does not mean I will not purchase in the end. Case in point: the SO and I recently purchased a young mare (as a springtime project) as a result of said 'tire kicking'. A few others have turned out to not be what I was (casually) looking for, upon inquiry. I would not inquire if I had absolutely no intention of buying (ie, no room, time, or purpose for another) and when I come to your place I do have cash in hand, but I don't feel I have to be 100% serious before knowing all the facts.

                      I don't think someone trying out your horse then never calling you back is necessarily a tire kicker - they probably simply were not interested after trying out the horse. And people who ask a million questions over the internet are probably gauging whether it is worth their time to come out or not.

                      Someone coming, cash in hand, sales agreement, and asking legitimate questions then deciding not to purchase your horse because 1) it's lame, 2) wasn't as advertised is not a tire kicker. It's called being a buyer.
                      ...or deciding not to purchase simply because the horse was not as they had expected based on the info provided. A lot of/most people have to actually see and ride a horse and won't/can't base such a decision mostly or only on info provided over the phone or via email.

                      OP, I honestly don't see any problem with posting photos of what the horse used to be capable of, so long as the giver is up-front with the horse's current capabilities. Imo it can be great especially for broodmare prospects and helps to give you a decent idea of what the horse was capable of and therefore maybe what he is and what he is not capable of now. Good luck in your search - I'm sure it's a bit like searching for a needle in a haystack, but the 'needle' you find will be well worth it
                      Last edited by naturalequus; Oct. 21, 2011, 10:12 AM.
                      ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                      ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OveroHunter View Post
                        Come out and look at some then! We'll entertain your "tire kicking" self all day long "
                        But you guys are on the other side of Georgia from me! lol
                        I mean...I can bribe transportation with trails at Garland Mountain...or farm fresh eggs....or baked goods....or...better yet - CASH!

                        Originally posted by rustbreeches View Post
                        I drove 180 miles round trip only to have a seller refuse to sell to me because she decided that the horse she described as a perfect child's horse and suitable for a beginner really shouldn't go to a beginner. Thanks crazy lady.
                        Last week I drove out to meet someone who, after I got there, decided that her child was much too attached to the horse and was on the fence about selling him, but could I pay maybe another $1000? And maybe she could convince her (eight year old) child to sell him?
                        If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
                        DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
                        Originally posted by talkofthetown
                        As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I accept bribes
                          Southern Cross Guest Ranch
                          An All Inclusive Guest Ranch Vacation - Georgia

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My definition of "tire kicking" is this:

                            The person inquiring about a sale horse has absolutely no intention of buying a horse, doesn't have the money, doesn't have the space. So wasting people's time when you really will not buy under any circumstances isn't very polite.

                            Having said that, even those "tire kickers" who inquire about horses at a breeding farm or sales barn that regularly sells horses (not just one individual selling a personal horse) may have a change in circumstances that might allow them to buy, and they will come back in 6 months, or a year, and buy something from you. So it makes it worth a seller's while to be nice to those people, anyway.

                            If someone is casually shopping, and has the ability to buy if they really wanted to, they are not a tire kicker. I think sellers forget what it's like to be in the buyer's shoes. The buyer is trying to find just the right match in an expensive animal that requires years of committment, and if the wrong choice is made, the consequences are really major, for most people. Anyone who has ever been horse shopping, just like the OP, endures at least weeks, if not months, of misrepresented horses. The only fun thing about horse shopping, in my opinion, is the good stories you get out of it, once you get over your frustration.
                            Last edited by Kwill; Oct. 21, 2011, 10:37 AM. Reason: cannot write today!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I sell a fair number of horses each year. I don't consider people who look but don't buy to be tire kickers. I simply don't have the right horse for their needs. And that is okay. As long as the buyer is looking in good faith, then that's all I can ask for. I admit that it is annoying when after showing a horse the prospective buyer says "oh, we are just looking and not ready to buy now." I guess some people consider that a nicer way to say no -- it isn't. Just say the horse doesn't suit your intended purposes. I am not going to argue with you or force you to buy a horse. In fact, I have declined to sell horses to prospective buyers if I think the fit is bad.

                              A tire kicker is someone with no intention of buying a horse from the get-go.
                              Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
                              http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Kwill View Post
                                The only fun thing about horse shopping, in my opinion, is the good stories you get out of it, once you get over your frustration.
                                ^

                                In regards to the OP, I see nothing wrong with someone offering their horse FTGH that is unsound to do what it used to do...but posting pictures showing what it used to do. To me, that shows me that the horse is well-trained, works well off cues, etc. if someone was to send me photos of a happy horse popping over jumps with a young rider aboard. Okay - so the horse is no longer sound to do those things (ergo the "FTGH" thing,) but it shows me a horse that is happy doing what he/she did, and it shows me a young rider aboard besides.

                                There is often a reason why a horse is FTGH - some are sound and some just aren't.
                                If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
                                DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
                                Originally posted by talkofthetown
                                As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  In the OP's case, unless they were posting the pictures in an attempt to be dishonest about the horse's capabilties, there's nothing wrong with showing how nice the horse was in his or her prime. As long as there is disclosure about what the horse can do now, and what he looks like today, nothing wrong with older pictures.

                                  I agree, FTGH does not mean you are generally going to find that diamond in the rough that should be worth six figures but the person didn't realize it.

                                  Reminds me of that urban legend about the free luxury car the person had died in. There's going to be something about a free horse that isn't perfect.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Having said that, even those "tire kickers" who inquire about horses at a breeding farm or sales barn that regularly sells horses (not just one individual selling a personal horse) may have a change in circumstances that might allow them to buy, and they will come back in 6 months, or a year, and buy something from you. So it makes it worth a seller's while to be nice to those people, anyway.

                                    I couldn't agree more. It turned out that the seller I bought my horse from is someone I met and spoke to very early in my horse shopping adventures. He'd taken so much time to talk to me about horses, horse shopping and the like that it made an impression. When Fella's seller emailed me that she'd sold her horse to this person I felt like I had a connection with him and essentially dropped everything that day to drive 2 hours into PA to test ride the horse. Since I went without my trainer he even allowed me to modify the contract to say pending PPE and trainer approval (he gave me a window of time for that).

                                    Paula
                                    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      My husband is the ultimate "tire kicker." When he is horse shopping, he does tons of research on who is breeding this type of horse - in this case gaited appys - and will call the breeders and talk their ears off asking millions of questions and relating stories that have nothing to do with anything and then hang up. But then he calls again and again asking about this breeder and that breeder and this horse and that horse. It drives me crazy when he does this because he has no intention of buying anytime soon and is just wasting these people's time. I tell him that but he thinks he's made some lifelong friend who don't mind him taking up chunks of their day talking to some guy who is not going to buy from them. Makes me nuts!

                                      Their was an ad on CL a while ago and the seller of a mediocre horse said in his ad that unless you come with a trailer, he's not going to bother getting the horse out for you to see. I'd like to ask him it it would be okay that unless he's going to buy, you don't get to see the house/car until you pay for it.
                                      Yogurt - If you're so cultured, how come I never see you at the opera? Steven Colbert

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I have to admit, I might be one of those annoying buyers. Tons of questions and I need to be able to ride the horse or pony (if it's under saddle) or at least see it go, I ask to see dam and sire (if on site), how siblings have matured, etc, etc.

                                        And I found a wonderful breeder who took out a whole afternoon to show me horses, knowing I was not coming with a trailer and I was shopping on a budget. I'll be going to look at the horses again in a week... and probably vetting and buying one (or two).

                                        The breeder is a 7 hour drive from me, and knows that it's a long day for me to come and look several times, but if I buy a horse, I have to ride and like it enough to keep (at least til I put some training on it). It's worth the gas and time for me to make the right choice. And finding a seller that 'gets it', might make a return customer of me.

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