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Home gelding laws?

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  • #41
    Most male animals should be casterated a whole lot more pain and injury would be their fate if they weren't.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

    Comment

    • #42
      Originally posted by county View Post
      Most male animals should be casterated a whole lot more pain and injury would be their fate if they weren't.
      Agreed, but in my perfect world they wouldn't be castrated while being held down by ropes and with no anesthetic.

      FWIW, I grew up on a ranch and saw many calf castrations, but I can't IMAGINE anyone trying to do a bull the same way!

      Comment

      • #43
        Many many many animals are castered without drugs always have been if done properly its not a big deal at all.
        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

        Comment

        • #44
          [QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;3256262]oh and does this self-gelder have a bottle of SMZs? you have to give those for a week to 10 days starting that day of gelding.
          and hosing, gotta start that the next day, we had to hose the boy 2x a day.
          QUOTE]

          Really? The last one I had gelding was done by a vet (actually our local horse vet) the horse was sedated to keep him for kicking the vets head off. Then the gelding took place. There was no pain killers afterwards, no antibiotics and no cold hosing. The vet said keep an eye on the horse and if there are signs of infection to give him a call. The horse was back grazing in the field in a few minutes. No problems.

          Elasticator bands don't work on horses like they do on cattle, sheep, and goats. Horses just don't hang like the other livestock do.
          The essential joy of being with horses is that it brings us in contact with the rare elements of grace, beauty, spirit, and fire. ~Sharon Ralls Lemon

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          • #45
            Originally posted by county View Post
            Many many many animals are castered without drugs always have been if done properly its not a big deal at all.
            Are you sure? Did you ask them?

            Comment

            • #46
              Originally posted by county View Post
              Many many many animals are castered without drugs always have been if done properly its not a big deal at all.
              Yeah, not a big deal for the castratOR. But if the castratEE could talk...

              Oh mama.


              We cannot judge another's pain and discomfort (or terror) level by our own. sylvia
              Never explain yourself to someone who is committed to misunderstanding you.

              Comment

              • #47
                Originally posted by fourh mom View Post
                We cannot judge another's pain and discomfort (or terror) level by our own. sylvia
                Well, I am not sure about that. How about a poll- how many men think it would be no big deal to be castrated without anesthetic?

                Comment

                • #48
                  Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                  Well, I am not sure about that. How about a poll- how many men think it would be no big deal to be castrated without anesthetic?
                  With cattle, they are controlled in a squeeze chute, it is done very fast and they don't seem to hurt but a few seconds, hardly more than branding hurts.
                  Cattle object more to eartagging than castrating.

                  I agree that with horses, especially older than just barely a year old, a vet and anesthesia are best.
                  We sure never just laid one down and did it without anesthesia.

                  Comment

                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    With cattle, they are controlled in a squeeze chute, it is done very fast and they don't seem to hurt but a few seconds, hardly more than branding hurts.
                    Cattle object more to eartagging than castrating.
                    We never did a chute, we always used ropes like County describes.

                    BUT, they used to think babies did not feel pain during circumcision because of the same thing- the babies cried for a second and then seemed fine. When they did further research, though, they found a great deal of activity in the pain center of the brain, followed by increased stress activity for quite some time.

                    Based on that, almost all pediatricians use anesthetic now.

                    So the moral of the story is, an animal that can't communicate can't tell you how its feeling. Sometimes our assumptions based on primitive communication are wrong.

                    Comment

                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                      BUT, they used to think babies did not feel pain during circumcision because of the same thing- the babies cried for a second and then seemed fine. When they did further research, though, they found a great deal of activity in the pain center of the brain, followed by increased stress activity for quite some time. Based on that, almost all pediatricians use anesthetic now.
                      I'm always amazed by that. How much imagination does it really take to figure that cutting into a conscious animal will hurt it? I mean, it's one thing to downplay the pain, but to claim they didn't feel pain at all?

                      Comment

                      • #51
                        People made the claim when they didn't know.

                        Now we know.

                        My pig was castrated at home. No banding - obviously. Because of his age and size he was mildly sedated and injected with a local.

                        The vet said I could give him Banamine if the pig appeared to be uncomfortable - but nope.

                        The only thing that seemed to upset him was coming out of sedation - not being able to get up. After that - he was happy to go back out and enjoy the grass and sunshine.

                        He never received any painkillers - I just kept the wound clean. And he didn't even mind me cleaning it.

                        Of course he felt discomfort - but if you really wanted to freak him out all you had to do was grab his ear.

                        His doodads ached - but grabbing an ear would terrify him.

                        Look at it from the animal's perspective - and not ours.
                        Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                        Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                        -Rudyard Kipling

                        Comment

                        • #52
                          just because they aren't screaming doesn't mean they aren't in pain. Most animals instinctively try to hide that they are in pain, unlike people who like to cry and whine and carry on about it. Cutting parts off live animals without anesthetic is cruel and barbaric. I doubt they need pain-killers afterwards for a simple castration, but at least inject a local into the area for the actual procedure.

                          Comment

                          • #53
                            it hurt

                            well it hurt cause the horse I saw gelded got up right in the middle of the cutting.
                            like I always tell my vet (same one who did the gelding there for someone else) for horses and my vet for my dogs and cats (different vet)--painkillers for pets, since I don't use any prescription drugs, so if we are up in the middle of the night with horse/dog/cat in pain, then my vet will also be up in the middle of the night with us.
                            SMZs are used to help prevent infection after the gelding. just cause my vet choses to use them to prevent infection, doesn't mean it is wrong.
                            lots of vets (and people here obviously) think that animals do not feel pain, this is incorrect, they do, but they don't scream and yell like humans do. I've had morphine patches for terminally ill dogs and cats with cancer and would do it again for them.,
                            So what' wrong with giving painkillers for gelding? My vet didn't do it for the BOs horse, and he got up during the surgery, twice, and it could have been a disaster since he was stumbling around, 3 of us couldn't control him till she doped him up again, twice. then he got up and we gave up, as he was gelded, but had a big strip of flesh hanging down.
                            and the cold hosing is to keep swelling down, it should be done just as you would cold hose a stocked up leg.
                            sure you can cut them and then do nothing. and maybe lots of times nothing will happen. what's a little pain, why should you pay extra for something to prevent infection.
                            bet you guys scream for painkillers when you go to the doctor!
                            and guys, why they don't even want to get snipped tubally, but they sure do get painkillers when they have vasectomies.

                            Comment

                            • #54
                              Flicker

                              and didn't any of you "horse lovers" ever read the book Flicker? guess what happened to the nice horse who was gelded in that book? fiction, but happens sometimes when they are gelded. swelling, infection, etc.

                              Comment

                              • #55
                                I haven't read all of the posts but thought I would share the horrific gelding stories my farrier tells me.

                                He says that his grandpa has always gelded his own horses...as in, tie them up, throw them down, cut them out, toss a little corn meal on the wound, and then let them loose. He even told me that his grandpa would sometimes RIDE the poor horse the same day!!

                                When I was in FFA long long ago, my ag teacher castrated my sheep in a very similar way. I could NEVER do that now to one my critters...a little painkiller isn't that expensive!

                                And because I know someone will ask, my farrier is kind and very gentle with my horses and treats his the same way. This is just what his grandpa was like.
                                http://burpclothsandsaddlepads.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • #56
                                  board certified

                                  fyi county, my information comes from my vet (board certified and graduated from univ. of michigan) and from my personal experience. guess my vet and I don't give the answers you want. we disagree. on everything, slaughter, pain, bute, etc.

                                  Comment

                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by county View Post
                                    Many many many animals are castered without drugs always have been if done properly its not a big deal at all.
                                    I agree that many have been castrated without any drugs...but would you like it??
                                    http://burpclothsandsaddlepads.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment

                                    • #58
                                      Banding a horse won't work.

                                      We don't band our goats either, too many things can go wrong. We tranq. them, cut, rip, shot of meds, done.

                                      We band calves when they are mature enough, but they're still small enough for even a kid to pin them against the wall. When we castrated an older bull we did the same procedure as the goats, but at the vet.

                                      I had a horse that had been banded, didn't quite get everything and ended up with a very 'odd' horse.
                                      To be loved by a horse, or by any animal, should fill us with awe-
                                      for we have not deserved it.
                                      Marion Garretty

                                      Comment

                                      • #59
                                        That's a rather silly question.

                                        Even many procedures done on humans are done without any painkillers. Big deal. Women give birth without painkillers all the time - and I would not call childbirth sunshine and roses.

                                        Mares give birth without painkillers - and their labor is MUCH more prolonged and fraught with complications than a simple castration.

                                        If you've got 150 sheep to castrate - and you have to do it in just a few hours - you go out there and do it. You make it quick and as clean as you can because the more you handle the animals - the more stressed they become.

                                        You guys have GOT to apply some critical thinking skills here. The OP's situation is most certainly going to result in disaster if it comes to pass - that's for certain.

                                        But castration of livestock is quick and done in manner that results in the least amount of stress and pain as possible. Painkillers are not without side effects, they take time to work, and even sedation can be dangerous when you're dealing with large numbers of animals, or an animal that reacts poorly to it.
                                        Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                        Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                        -Rudyard Kipling

                                        Comment

                                        • #60
                                          OMG - you've only seen ONE????

                                          And yet here you are to give advice

                                          Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                                          well it hurt cause the horse I saw gelded got up right in the middle of the cutting.
                                          Um...ANY horse who is down, surrounded by people he doesn't know WILL try to get up. IF the vet did his/her job correctly horsey was feeling no pain. Just angst at a crowd of stranger/onookers.

                                          This actually happened here at my farm when the colt jumped up the vet was on his back - so castrated and broke out the same day!!!!

                                          No SMZ's no bute - it was cold it was February Horse went on that October to place 8th at the AQHA Congress - so I think he was OK!
                                          "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"

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