• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Breed blindness or bias

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Breed blindness or bias

    I love Standardbreds and Thoroughbreds. I think, I hope that I have a grasp of the breeds general traits. I'm wondering about other people. My "wondering" comes from watching a program about a dressage rider and her 4th level dressage horse, a Friesian. He was spooky and dull off the leg, which is what I have seen in every Friesian I've met so far (which has only been about 20).

    But it made me think, what were her reasons for choosing such a horse, he's a nice horse and if you like a lot of hair, he's got it. Quite beautiful and he seemed sweet, but you've got to also weigh in the huge spooks and motivation to move. I have heard and read that many Friesians have a hard time with canter and collection even though they may seem collected.

    Are you blind to your breeds GENERAL characteristics? I know each horse is different. My experience with TB's has been they can be quite reactive, they like to move and they seem to prefer less contact to more. The best horse I've ever had the priviledge to ride was a TB mare. Not spooky, bold and forward, so you'd better be ready to ride when you got on board!

    And I'm taking this post towards the breed lovers, not the horse in general. Sometimes you fall in love with a horse and don't care what breed it is, but I'm wanting to talk about why you choose the breed(s) you do and what is the deciding factor pro or con. And do you see the negatives of that breed as others might?
    Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
    Are you blind to your breeds GENERAL characteristics? I know each horse is different. ?
    First you are correct my horses are better than your horses LOL

    We chose Morgans specifically because we had children and we wanted a breed whose characteristics were geared toward versatility and easy of ownership

    The Morgan Registry had been doing blood typing since the early 1980s so the papers were correct as to the ancestry

    Comment


    • #3
      I tend to favor paints and tbs. The paints that we have are all high percentage tb (half or more). I just like them, while they are all different none have been push alongs. All have loved to work and seem to fit with my riding style. I am open to other breeds as well, but would look at these two before others. While I have ever owned one, I am quite a fan of mustangs. I have ridden quite a few and find them to be fabulous as hack around horses. I know one thats a fab polo pony and sharp as a tack. Even the fuglys have a ton of heart, I can think of a camp horse that looked like he was a mule/rabbit cross and turned like a boat. He was the most fab using horse I have ever met.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by clanter View Post
        First you are correct my horses are better than your horses LOL
        No, MY Horse is better than yours!!

        And you know what my OTTB Ted is always saying, "Once you have a an OTTB, you never go back." Sometimes I think he meant "backwards." But still, I love the sentiment.
        www.specialhorses.org
        a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Ha, ha clanter! Interestingly enough I have never met a Morgan I wanted. I guess our personalities pull us towards a type of horse just as with people.

          englishcowgirl, have you had the chance to ride a mustang? The well built ones I've seen coming from the Burns, OR area look very handy. I've heard too that they have a great work ethic once you've bonded with them.
          Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho" View Post
            No, MY Horse is better than yours!!

            And you know what my OTTB Ted is always saying, "Once you have a an OTTB, you never go back." Sometimes I think he meant "backwards." But still, I love the sentiment.
            10-4 on the backwards
            Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've only owned 2 horses, and have them both right now, a Morgan and a TB. The Morgan is hot, and horribly spooky. Super sweet, but too spooky to really be a great trail horse (which I bought him for) but he is a great jumper, and tries very hard. He was a national saddleseat and driving horse, so it might be more his upbringing then his actual breed. The TB is sweet, tries hard, and athletic, and forward as well. I'm drawn to TBs I've found, because I love the leggy awkwardness, and not feeling like I have a huge horse underneath me. I like their dispositions, how most of them are loyal, sweet and cuddly, and how I fit them (I'm built sort of TB-like, awkwardly long limbs thrown together).

              Comment


              • #8
                A "breed" in any species is a group of animals that have some similar set of characteristics that have been selected by the breeding process.

                Ideally a person should decide what they want to do with the horse and then go find one that will move them towards their goal. The first place to look is in a place where the traits you need have been pre-selected over some period of time (a few years to a few millenia ).

                If I need to pull a beer wagon I'm going to look for a Clyde or Belgian or something like that; I'll not waste time on Arabs or Akel Tekkes (which may be fine horses but not for pulling beer wagons). If I want to work cows I'll gravitate towards the QH and not spend much time with TWHs or SSHs. If I want to go fast over a medium distance then I'll likely want a TB. For long distances, an Arab. If I've got a bad back then the TWH or a Mountain Horse might do just fine.

                Some breeds are broader than others. The Mangalarga Marchador will do most of what a QH will do but more smoothly.

                To select a coach horse for a dressage mount is, IMO, a short road to disapointment. I think people ride Fresians 'cause the look pretty, not because they are particularly suitable as saddle mounts. You can put a square peg into a round hole, but the peg, hole, and hammer will all take a beating.

                G.
                Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                  A "breed" in any species is a group of animals that have some similar set of characteristics that have been selected by the breeding process.

                  If I need to pull a beer wagon I'm going to look for a Clyde or Belgian or something like that;

                  To select a coach horse for a dressage mount is, IMO, a short road to disapointment. I think people ride Fresians 'cause the look pretty, not because they are particularly suitable as saddle mounts. You can put a square peg into a round hole, but the peg, hole, and hammer will all take a beating.

                  G.

                  Sorry G- (seems I type that a lot) but you left out the OBVIOUS first choice in beer wagon-pulling breeds (sorry Bud) - PERCHERONS. Power, pretty heads and not all that "feather" to keep clean. Percherons- the affordabe Big Black Horse!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well I am owned by a breed, specifically two sections within a breed. I've owned several horses and breeds over the years. My family has had horses for several generations, all one breed. I must admit that my upbringing, background and family influences contributed quite a bit to what I've chosen to keep in my backyard; so, am I blind to their general traits? No, I love them and embrace them. Do I realize that others see them as you did in describing the Friesian? You betcha. Do I care? Nope. I just keep increasing the strength and surface area of the velcro on my butt Do I think that they are the best choice for my chosen discipline? Not necessarily but I am blind to the discipline and naive in thinking that it is still a discipline for all horses regardless of breed. Would I let go of the breed for the sake of the discipline? No way. Would I find something else to do with the breed if the discipline banned them? You better believe it and have already been doing "other" things with them. The ironic thing is that I have absolutely no desire or interest to show in MY breed's shows. When I had Arabs I did the Arab shows as well as open venues because I found them more family friendly and enjoyed them. I did QH horse shows when I owned QHs and App shows when I owned Apps. I have never ever even been to a Welsh show. So I hold on to my breed and covet individuals of my breed without the camraderie and support of other like minded individuals. Breed blindness? I prefer to simply call it marching to the tune of a different drummer.
                    Ranch of Last Resort

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think some people really don't get it, some people buy the horse rather than the breed (I knew an Appy once who was a fabulous saddleseat/EP horse - go figure), and some people (this would be me) just like the breed and aren't planning to go to the Olympics, anyway, so don't particularly care that their breed of choice won't get them there.

                      I event, like TBs and Arabs, and own one of each. No problems there with the (now retired) TB, but, yes, Arabs are not exactly at the top of most people's event horse lists. But I love her, I love her bloodlines (which tend more towards using-horse and less towards "look at the pretty head - wait, you mean it has legs, too??"), and she's bold as the day is long. Are we going to Rolex someday? Nope. But I wouldn't be going to Rolex no matter WHAT horse you put me on, so I don't see why that makes one bit of difference.

                      To me, if you are enjoying barrel racing with your Clydesdale, no one is getting hurt, and you aren't going to be disappointed when you don't make the NFR, well, why the heck NOT? I think we place too much emphasis on what the upper levels and top competitors do ("we" being those of us who are not UL or top competitors ourselves ), rather than just having a good time at our own level with the horses we love.
                      Proud member of the EDRF

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't like stereotypes and generalities, so I go with the horse and not the breed.

                        I've had a Selle Français mare who hated men, was opinionated, but loved her owners (Sis and me) and would try her best. She was a jumper, a trail horse and a TREC horse.

                        I've had a Morgan that I loved to pieces, she was the VERSATILE horse if there is one. Eventing, Hunting, trail riding, cow cutting, swimming, whatever I asked her to do, she willingly did. She was sensitive but not spooky, and very forward thinking. I've been on other Morgans who were a totally different ride from her and from each other.

                        I've ridden Trotters, Arabs, Anglo-Arabs, SF, icelandics...and enjoyed most of them.

                        I've bought a few Ottbs at the track and they were all very different rides as well. My current Ottb mare is a great match for me and fun fun fun to ride/jump. I think I tend to look at Ottbs because I feel I am also doing a good deed when I buy them at the track when their owner/trainer doesn't want them anymore. I may be wrong, but I think these horses are more likely to go to auction or to the killers, even when perfectly sound, young, etc.

                        But really, I don't have a favorite "breed" so much as a favorite "type": smallish (15 - 16h), cute, catty and versatile mare.
                        Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kementari View Post
                          To me, if you are enjoying barrel racing with your Clydesdale, no one is getting hurt, and you aren't going to be disappointed when you don't make the NFR, well, why the heck NOT? I think we place too much emphasis on what the upper levels and top competitors do ("we" being those of us who are not UL or top competitors ourselves ), rather than just having a good time at our own level with the horses we love.
                          I agree so much with this post. Let's face it the majority of horse owners, even those who actually compete in their breed's shows and such are NEVER going to be "up there with the 'gods" of their chosen breed's disciplines." That takes loads of money, time and connections - and some lucky breaks, too.

                          Anyway, at my age, it's all about having fun with my horse. And let's face it, the most important thing is the "connection" you have with your particular horse. You can have a horse that is "great" as far as breeding, conformation and even training, but if you don't have that "connection" the relationship is not as satisfying as a "real connection" even if your horse is an old long in the tooth work horse with less than perfect conformation and no papers at all.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think I like a "type" more than a "breed" but certain breeds fit that type better than others. Mostly this relates to physical characteristics but within the breeds I go for certain temperments, of which certain breeds are known to possess those temperments or not.

                            From my list of breeds, you can pretty much guess the type of horse I like:
                            Morgans, Friesians, Welsh Cobs (sec D), old-style WBs.

                            Temperment-wise, I like quiet and willing (who doesn't).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                              Ha, ha clanter! Interestingly enough I have never met a Morgan I wanted. .
                              But you already have a part Morgan; look at your beloved Standardbred... its history traces back through the Morgan

                              "The ascendance of Messenger blood was contested hard and long by Morgan horses and by the Clays, part Thoroughbred and descended from a Barb stallion. These three bloodlines eventually established the Standardbred horse as a breed. Messenger progeny were low going and long gaited, with some height of action in front, coupled with substance and courage. The higher gaited Morgans were also shorter in height."


                              http://www.horseshowcentral.com/hors...ed_horse/122/1


                              As a note one of the best horses I took care of while working for saddlehorse farms in Kentucky was a standardbred mare, she and I got along very well...she was a pleasure to work with

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                                Ha, ha clanter! Interestingly enough I have never met a Morgan I wanted. I guess our personalities pull us towards a type of horse just as with people.

                                englishcowgirl, have you had the chance to ride a mustang? The well built ones I've seen coming from the Burns, OR area look very handy. I've heard too that they have a great work ethic once you've bonded with them.
                                Yes of course. In fact I can think of four off hand. Of the four, three were well built, all had heart and were nice horses to work around. However none of them were going to jump over 2'6". One is in fact a brilliant polo pony and I am on him at least two days a week to exercise him. He is a wonderful worker. I ride hunter/jumper and these guys are just not enough to get over the real big fences, or nearly tall enough for me with my long legs. I will say again I really like them, but as a hack around pony. Get the mail, trail ride, go see the neighbors, maybe if you have to get the herd in.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Everyone works from their own knowledge and experience, so I think we all have biases.
                                  I happen to like upheaded horses. And I like a good work ethic and an active personality. I have found that with my Morgan. Many of the breed (but not all) fit that description. I have found that I am comfortable with this kind of horse and that my ambitions are not beyond that type of horse's capabilities.
                                  It is interesting how some people cannot understand different preferences - comment like "Dont you want to move up to a WB (or TB)?" I know my horse (and his breed) have their limitations,but mine are a more limiting factor! Some may find joy in a quiet-minded horse with no spook and they don't mind "stepping on the gas" all the time while others are just the reverse. So a weakness for one may be a strength to another!
                                  The only times I have an issue with someone's breed choice are when they cannot appreciate how somebody would choose differently, or when they struggle with an inappropriate horse (too hot, spooky, physically unable to comfortably perform) just because it is the "right" breed.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by clanter View Post
                                    But you already have a part Morgan; look at your beloved Standardbred... its history traces back through the Morgan

                                    "The ascendance of Messenger blood was contested hard and long by Morgan horses and by the Clays, part Thoroughbred and descended from a Barb stallion. These three bloodlines eventually established the Standardbred horse as a breed. Messenger progeny were low going and long gaited, with some height of action in front, coupled with substance and courage. The higher gaited Morgans were also shorter in height."


                                    http://www.horseshowcentral.com/hors...ed_horse/122/1
                                    You are so right clanter- If you own or like any of the following breeds, then I think it could be said you probably like or own a part Morgan-

                                    The Standardbred, National Walking Horse, Tennesse Walking Horse, and American Saddlebred as well as the American Quarter Horse all have Morgans in most or many of their bloodlines.

                                    And then you have all the breeds that have horses from one or more of the five breed registries I already mentioned in THEIR bloodlines including Missouri Fox Trotters, Racking Horses, Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse, Rocky Mountain Saddle horse, Mountain Saddle Horses and the newer North American Single Footing Horse.

                                    Even some some Appaloosa horses have Morgan in their bloodlines from when out-crossing was allowed to Morgans and a few other breeds, I believe in the 1970s.

                                    And then, Morgans themselves have TBs in their ancestry. Morgans have contributed so much to the foundation of many American horse breeds. But I think still the best breed of horse is the one you own and have a really good connection or understanding with - even if its a "grade" horse with no tracable ancestry at all. (But hey, odds are, if it was born in the us and is a light horse, it probably has some Morgan in it somewhere.)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      And to close the circle, I read that Morgans have Friesians in their ancestry.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Zwarte View Post
                                        And to close the circle, I read that Morgans have Friesians in their ancestry.
                                        Is this like the Kevin Bacon theory?

                                        A horse can have traces of other breeds to create their bloodline and not be anything like them. Ex is the TB and Arab, and definitely the Standie and Morgan, there's a very big difference between those types.
                                        Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X