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So much unsoundness in QH's?? WHY? WHY? WHY?!

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Scaramouch View Post
    I don't suppose they race QHs in Canada?

    I did quite a bit of jumping and eventing at the lower levels on an off-the-track First Down Dash grandson. He'd been unsound on the track, but was never lame during the time that I had him. He's easily one of the most athletic and, other than being the slightest bit downhill, well-conformed animals I've ever seen.
    They do race QH's up here

    Funny how they usually stay sound once they're taken home and are no longer run into the dirt We had an OTTB (lost him to colic this year) who was also lame on the track but who never took an unsound step with us (well, other than due to his propensity for being goofy and sustaining minor injuries that way ) after a little time off.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

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    • #42
      didn't read everything but wanted to note that two of the wp horse that I rode in highschool that were in their mid-teens is still around today and still in light work, I graduated in 2001

      one that was younger died due to cancer

      one the same age range of the top two was put down this year due to navicular

      the others I have lost track of, but Guy had been a jr show horse and was cow hocked and slightly sickle hocked and he is one of the two that is still around, none of them when I was in highschool go massage or chiro, they were barn owned not privately owned at the time and got worked hard on a regular basis so sometime its hit or miss or luck of the draw

      Comment


      • #43
        Pics of my servicably sound 34ish year old QH. The QH is an assumption, he could also be a crop out paint, he has one blue eye. Longest Horse Ever! Look at that face! You can see the wee feet and the muscling despite living out in a field doing nothin' for the past few years. He did 10 years as a mounted police horse, and 10 years before that as a 4H camp lesson horse. So not an easy plush lifestyle. No idea when or how he was started, but I will say who ever did train him did an exceptional job, to this day he is the smartest horse I've ever been privileged to work with. Knows his job.
        Do not take anything to heart. Do not hanker after signs of progress. Founder of the Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

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        • #44
          A friend has a registered 39 year old AQHA gelding she started herself as a two year old and competed at the top, winning much, for many years.
          He has now been retired for some years, still sound.

          There are many sound horses out there and without a well conducted study, we really don't know how many horses and of which breed and why are sound or not and for how long.

          We can find all kinds of examples, sound horses into old age and young unsound ones, but they are not data to say either way.

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          • #45
            Lameness has nothing to do with the QH breed and has everything to do with irresponsible owners and trainers who force their horses to move incorrectly for years.

            Comment


            • #46
              You know, it's not a breed issue. I've met far more sound and solid old timer QHs than cripples (and i live in QH country). It has far more to do with what sort of bloodlines you have and ESPECIALLY what the horse's individual conformation is. THAT'S the biggest issue. You really don't see a working ranch horse crippled at a young age because his feet were tiny or his shoulder was too steep. They are bred to WORK and generally their conformation will stand up to that work. I have a Mr San Peppy/Music Mount bred gelding who is a cripple at 18 -- because of a conformational flaw (big bodied horse with too short cannon bones, he's arthritic). However, all of his full siblings were built like him but with a longer cannon bone and they are all sound and still working hard. He was that exception.

              And don't get me started on the Lead 'n Feed Pigs on a String, aka, Halter horses. Yes, there are halter horses who can be ridden and be competitive and there are performance horses who can do well in halter but they are the exception, not the rule. You'll find some of the WORST conformational flaws in halter horses -- posty hind legs, over at the knee, steep shoulders and those awful, tiny ass teacup feet. Eww.

              And then you have people riding them at 16 months so they are ready for futurities. Gah.
              People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they're lost.---Dalai Lama

              Comment


              • #47
                Irish Draughts

                The high number of QH with soundness problems...either by design or harder use as young horses...was one big reason I chose to bring Irish Draughts to the US and to be my choice to breed. They share many charecteristic with the QH in that they are by nature quiet and sensible. They do well with little fuss. They are easy to start and are amateur friendly. I have known many wonderful QH who did stay sound and I would also suggest following the Ranch sales though I would still wonder about their guarantees of soundness. I would want to be able to return if they did not pass a vet exam as I doubt they have vet exams pre sale very often. Also you have to look for a physically soundly built horse in the first place. I am not one who says you can't start a youngster and still have a sound horse at 20+. I think a good work ethic is built with a young start as opposed to waiting til 4 and later.

                I did not find the Irish Draught totally comparable to QHs as they are flat out too smart and a novice amateur ends up with the young Irish Draught being in charge. It is even more important to have a well trained adult with some years of work for green amateurs. But the Irish Draughts have soft gaits, don't injure themselves and keep their riders out of trouble too, can be tossed in a shelterless pasture surrounded in barb wire and live just fine, they are tough, smart and stay sound. There just are not as many of them. PatO

                Comment


                • #48
                  Why more quarter horses than other registered breeds?
                  Because they are the most numerous out there, compared with any other registered horse.

                  Couldn't agree with that more!

                  There is good and bad in every breed!

                  I have three QH's here over 25 still actively being ridden and going strong!

                  I also have one that has been crippled up with arthritis since he was 10!

                  Look for good conformation, big feet and stay away from any HYPP, HERDA positive horses!

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by columbus View Post
                    The high number of QH with soundness problems...either by design or harder use as young horses...was one big reason I chose to bring Irish Draughts to the US and to be my choice to breed. They share many charecteristic with the QH in that they are by nature quiet and sensible. They do well with little fuss. They are easy to start and are amateur friendly. I have known many wonderful QH who did stay sound and I would also suggest following the Ranch sales though I would still wonder about their guarantees of soundness. I would want to be able to return if they did not pass a vet exam as I doubt they have vet exams pre sale very often. Also you have to look for a physically soundly built horse in the first place. I am not one who says you can't start a youngster and still have a sound horse at 20+. I think a good work ethic is built with a young start as opposed to waiting til 4 and later.

                    I did not find the Irish Draught totally comparable to QHs as they are flat out too smart and a novice amateur ends up with the young Irish Draught being in charge. It is even more important to have a well trained adult with some years of work for green amateurs. But the Irish Draughts have soft gaits, don't injure themselves and keep their riders out of trouble too, can be tossed in a shelterless pasture surrounded in barb wire and live just fine, they are tough, smart and stay sound. There just are not as many of them. PatO
                    On the other hand, it makes sense that, if you were needing the quarter horse characteristics of extreme athleticism and cowsense, you would have chosen a quarter horse, not an irish draught just because they may look to you like a quarter horse.

                    For your needs, that must not be what quarter horses are bred for, evidently an irish draught made more sense, no need to run quarter horses down, really.

                    That would be like saying TBs are said to have bad feet, so my next race horse will be an arabian.

                    My point, we get the horses we get for our own reasons, no horse is perfect and we look for the conformation and ability to do what we want from the horses we get.
                    That doesn't mean other horses are not good enough horses.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Just to brag... My qh was blessed with "abnormaly large feet and legs" by breeder. No issues.... Yet... *knock on wood*

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by OveroHunter View Post
                        Lameness has nothing to do with the QH breed and has everything to do with irresponsible owners and trainers who force their horses to move incorrectly for years.
                        yes for the voice of sanity!

                        and may I also add breeders who dont consider conformation.

                        I have an 18 year old mare who was started at two years old, futuritied and shown heavily. she is now my top lesson horse and we still go out and show in a reining or cowhorse class sometimes, for fun. Shes still sound and has a good work ethic. She is a grand daughter of both Rugged Lark and Doc O Lena. also have a 15 year old Doc O Lena/Mr San Peppy mare who was shown heavily as a youngster and is utterly sound still.

                        I sold a gelding to a local roper afew years ago. I bred and raised this horse..he was out of a "foundation" mare..Poco Bueno, Leo,Doc Bar..and sired by a son of Smart Chic Olena. This roper had had Hancock horses his whole life. He said this gelding I sold him was the easiest horse to start, ride and use...he said he was never going back to hancocks again.

                        I personally wont touch a hancock bred horse..to much bullheadedness..and that is a "ranch line" sought by many...Dont be fooled into thinking "ranch bred" or "ranch raised" means there is a gurantee of soundness and good mind tattooed to his butt. it would, IMO, be a better course of action to look at the individual horse..conformationaly and mentally, then where he is being touted as coming from or his "lines" (unless you are breeding..but that is a whole nuther barrel of apples there)

                        We also owned a young APHA gelding..he was Impressive bred (N/N)..sold him and he went onto to become quite a nice show hunter..cleaned up in the baby greens I was told. Great mind..who knew..

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by columbus View Post
                          The high number of QH with soundness problems...either by design or harder use as young horses...was one big reason I chose to bring Irish Draughts to the US and to be my choice to breed. They share many charecteristic with the QH in that they are by nature quiet and sensible. They do well with little fuss. They are easy to start and are amateur friendly. I have known many wonderful QH who did stay sound and I would also suggest following the Ranch sales though I would still wonder about their guarantees of soundness. I would want to be able to return if they did not pass a vet exam as I doubt they have vet exams pre sale very often. Also you have to look for a physically soundly built horse in the first place. I am not one who says you can't start a youngster and still have a sound horse at 20+. I think a good work ethic is built with a young start as opposed to waiting til 4 and later.

                          I did not find the Irish Draught totally comparable to QHs as they are flat out too smart and a novice amateur ends up with the young Irish Draught being in charge. It is even more important to have a well trained adult with some years of work for green amateurs. But the Irish Draughts have soft gaits, don't injure themselves and keep their riders out of trouble too, can be tossed in a shelterless pasture surrounded in barb wire and live just fine, they are tough, smart and stay sound. There just are not as many of them. PatO
                          Ill stick with my QH's..
                          I havent seen a Irish Draught get down and work a cow like my QH's can..remember, different strokes for different folks.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by spinandslide View Post
                            I personally wont touch a hancock bred horse..to much bullheadedness..and that is a "ranch line" sought by many...Dont be fooled into thinking "ranch bred" or "ranch raised" means there is a gurantee of soundness and good mind tattooed to his butt. it would, IMO, be a better course of action to look at the individual horse..conformationaly and mentally, then where he is being touted as coming from or his "lines" (unless you are breeding..but that is a whole nuther barrel of apples there)

                            We also owned a young APHA gelding..he was Impressive bred (N/N)..sold him and he went onto to become quite a nice show hunter..cleaned up in the baby greens I was told. Great mind..who knew..
                            We won't touch any cutting bred horses because they're too smart for our city slicker guests! Smart horses make great horses for real riders, but they get tired of dealing with greenhorns very quickly.

                            My N/N Impressive bred APHA gelding "RH" kills it in the baby greens! He's no great mover, but more than makes up for it in the O/F classes. I showed him baby greens his first year and other girl took him for his second year and he did so well. I could totally mess up and he'd always take care of me

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              What about the english pleasure horses that look more like TB's? If I ever breed my mare, I want to go with a quality QH so I could do AQHA. (She is a registered TB, but if I could sneak her into a QH show, we'd win everything- she is in love with carrying her poll lower than her withers and shuffling, plus just a scootch heavier build than your average TB, but on refined legs).

                              BTW, I feel like while she would probably be ideal for WP and the english HUS, I think she would suck at the type of work cutting and cattle horses do- she can't get on her back end.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
                                He is sound at 16 and does pretty much everything. Trail riding? Sure. Parades? No problem. Lower level dressage? If you want to. Open show HUS/pleasure? Sure, no problem, how many blue ribbons do you want this week? Western horsemanship? Tricolors. Barrel racing? If you say so, mom...

                                He's not built for Western pleasure, and he'll never make FEI levels in dressage or be a 3"+ hunter, but he is sound and he has brains and an incredible work ethic. In short, he is the poster child for what the QH should be, and at one time was MEANT to be. They're out there, they're not nearly as expensive as the halter or pleasure lines, and they are more durable. Find the right one, and you will never be disappointed...until the day he retires.
                                This could have been written about my AQHA - except he is 8 years old, and I have never ridden him in any western disciplines (but his previous owner did). We've done well in hunter shows and eventing (he loves XC). I can hack him out in the pasture and he rarely spooks. He is anxious to please and has a great brain -- learns new things quickly. For this adult re-rider, who wants a sane horse I can have fun with and some success at local hunter shows and eventing, I couldn't ask for more.

                                In the twenty-two months I have owned him, he has been off for about 10 days due to a stone bruise. That's it. Other than that, I have had no soundness issues with him (thank God!) Hopefully that will remain the case and we'll have a long, happy life riding together (he will never be sold - he has a home for life with me).

                                He is foundation - Skipper W lines - bred on a ranch in Colorado. He is a solid 16 hh.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by TarheelJD; Aug. 8, 2011, 01:21 PM. Reason: Add info on height and breeding
                                Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by spinandslide View Post
                                  I have an 18 year old mare who was started at two years old, futuritied and shown heavily. she is now my top lesson horse and we still go out and show in a reining or cowhorse class sometimes, for fun. Shes still sound and has a good work ethic. She is a grand daughter of both Rugged Lark and Doc O Lena. also have a 15 year old Doc O Lena/Mr San Peppy mare who was shown heavily as a youngster and is utterly sound still.
                                  I also had a Doc O Lena/Mr. San Peppy gelding that was started at 2 years old, went to the furturity, in full time training his first 12 years under saddle, stalled most of his life with little turn out and switched careers and became a Reined Cowhorse (and a darn good one). I would have ridden him many more years had he not coliced and died at age 19.

                                  It mostly has to do with conformation........it has nothing to do with when they were started.
                                  RIP Sucha Smooth Whiskey
                                  May 17,2004 - March 29, 2010
                                  RIP San Lena Peppy
                                  May 3, 1991 - March 11, 2010

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by OveroHunter View Post
                                    We won't touch any cutting bred horses because they're too smart for our city slicker guests! Smart horses make great horses for real riders, but they get tired of dealing with greenhorns very quickly.

                                    My N/N Impressive bred APHA gelding "RH" kills it in the baby greens! He's no great mover, but more than makes up for it in the O/F classes. I showed him baby greens his first year and other girl took him for his second year and he did so well. I could totally mess up and he'd always take care of me
                                    cutting bred's..espc the Peppy's seem to know who is on them..and thus, what they can get away with.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Diamondindykin View Post
                                      I also had a Doc O Lena/Mr. San Peppy gelding that was started at 2 years old, went to the furturity, in full time training his first 12 years under saddle, stalled most of his life with little turn out and switched careers and became a Reined Cowhorse (and a darn good one). I would have ridden him many more years had he not coliced and died at age 19.

                                      It mostly has to do with conformation........it has nothing to do with when they were started.
                                      Exactly. a 2 year old started RIGHT can lead a very long, useful, productive life.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by spinandslide View Post
                                        Exactly. a 2 year old started RIGHT can lead a very long, useful, productive life.
                                        I agree with this one too!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          My friend just sold a 4 yr old QH that didn't pass a vet check. Arthritis in her front fetlocks. She was started as a long yearling going into her 2 year old year. I think its the same issue with tbs on the track. Hard to find sound ones. While some people think it has to do with bloodlines, I think it may, but starting them this young doesn't help out any.
                                          Derby Lyn Farms Website

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