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Please help! I believe the person i free leased my horse to sold him

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  • #41
    Sorry to hear about your horse.
    I had a horse stolen I made a policereport and then had to do the foot work my self Ie press the prosecutor(sp) to do something. I also had to find the state law pertaining to horse theft. In my state it is only a crime If the horse is a safety horse and it even states fire horse ( wonder when the law was written) and police horse are the only times when theft is a crime.
    After months of pressing and research and contacting atty it turnes out that there was nothing I could do about it unles I wanted to take the theif to civil court, and possibly have it drag out forver. I learned through a friend that my baby was sold to a meat dealer and taken that day to canada.. So even if I had persued it i would never see him again.. so no point in taking those involved to court...
    Friend of bar .ka

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Kwill View Post
      One thing I learned -- you can't just go on someone's property and seize a horse. Even if it's yours!
      You can if done correctly. I have.

      Bill of sale and all veterinary records in hand, call the sheriff's department or whatever agency has jurisdiction and ask for a "civil standby." Show up with a trailer and the cops. They'll want to see your paperwork first.

      I placed a rescue mare with a local person and learned she was no longer providing proper care for the horse. I had not transferred title to her. I requested a civil standby and picked up my horse by showing only my original bill of sale and photos of the horse to the sheriff's deputy.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Watermark Farm View Post
        You can if done correctly. I have.

        Bill of sale and all veterinary records in hand, call the sheriff's department or whatever agency has jurisdiction and ask for a "civil standby." Show up with a trailer and the cops. They'll want to see your paperwork first.

        I placed a rescue mare with a local person and learned she was no longer providing proper care for the horse. I had not transferred title to her. I requested a civil standby and picked up my horse by showing only my original bill of sale and photos of the horse to the sheriff's deputy.
        But your situation is very different from OP's. I agree with RockinHorse - I think the guy believes the horse was given to him. I know OP has no choice but to contact him, but she could be opening herself up to harassment claims if she's not very careful. If I were this guy, I'd do everything in my power to protect myself from OP.
        Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

        "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

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        • #44
          Watermark, sounds like you did it correctly. I too have seized a horse for money owed that was kept at a boarding barn, but I consulted an attorney first -- defaulter and barn manager knew I was coming, no money was owed on board, and I had to go during "business hours" and only in daylight.

          In this situation, she has no paperwork, no bill of sale, and only her word against his she didn't give him the horse. So going on his property, or at a boarding barn, and taking the animal without doing some work beforehand to prove her claim could get her in trouble for trespassing or worse.

          I should remember that one must qualify statements here! Rightly so.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Mr Wonderful View Post
            He does not have a copy of the coggins, was it legal for him to trailer my horse without this?
            Unfortunately, it is very easy to get a coggins drawn - it takes a few minutes, and I've never known a vet to ask for proof of ownership before drawing one. So it may well be he's had his own copy drawn since, with his name on it.

            He may not have, but it wouldn't be hard. Having a coggins is pretty much worthless as proof of ownership, I'd think.
            "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

            My CANTER blog.

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            • #46
              You created a real mess, and I don't know that you have a legal leg to stand on to prove you own that horse. I'm glad the gal who sold him to you will take your side, but what do you have to prove what took place between you and Mr Man?

              Nothing.

              I did a free lease on my QH, with another of my trainer's students: We had a written contract. Guys, you HAVE to get it in writing!

              Comment


              • #47
                Besides the police report, post him/her out anywhere and everywhere. There is even a section here! Try to get as many people aware as possible ASAP!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by TheBarnRules View Post
                  But your situation is very different from OP's. I agree with RockinHorse - I think the guy believes the horse was given to him. I know OP has no choice but to contact him, but she could be opening herself up to harassment claims if she's not very careful. If I were this guy, I'd do everything in my power to protect myself from OP.
                  I agree that the OP should be very careful in how she approaches the person who has her horse. It's almost always better to have an attorney do this.
                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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                  • #49
                    OP -Always get everything in writing with a notarized contract if possible. I know it's a little late to get that advice, like shutting the barn door after the horse is out. But you could still possibly get your horse back.

                    Don't delay any longer. File a police report that your horse is missing. Contact Net Posse immediately. I saw where another poster even gave you a live link. Please don't delay.

                    Remember, if you do find your horse, you DO have paperwork proving the horse is yours including a bill of sale if I remember correctly. If your horse is located, the police will ask the current possessor to produce a bill of sale or lease agreement showing where you sold or leased him the animal in question.

                    If he can't produce one, then odds are, at least in Louisiana, that you will get your horse back. This is especially true if your horse is microchipped as part of the Coggins testing record and you are listed as the animal's last owner of record with the state.

                    If you want your horse back, don't delay, don't back down and don't try to be "nice."

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      ALWAYS get a lease agreement in writing....ALWAYS! I don't care what kind of lease it is - free lease, paid lease...make a written contract!

                      ALWAYS stipulate the monetary amount of damages due to you if they sell the horse while they're leasing it and make it for more than the horse is worth if sold.

                      My TB gelding is out on a free lease with a $5000 penalty clause if the contract is breached. There is no way they're going to be able to sell him for $5000, so it makes it much less enticing for someone to attempt anything underhanded.

                      Good luck, I hope you find some answers

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by CelticReinRescue View Post
                        My TB gelding is out on a free lease with a $5000 penalty clause if the contract is breached. There is no way they're going to be able to sell him for $5000, so it makes it much less enticing for someone to attempt anything underhanded.
                        That's a good idea. I've had two free lease horses and it never even crossed my mind to have a contract. One horse was even from Canada.

                        My friend got arrested for "stealing" a horse belonging to one of her college students. The girl had fallen behind on board and the BO kept threatening to sell the horse although no legal paperwork was ever filed. The girl paid all the money owed and asked my friend to haul the horse. The police showed up at my friend's house that night and arrested her for horse theft! The judge threw it out of court since the girl had proof that she had paid all that was owed.

                        Hope the horse is found soon!
                        Crayola Posse - Pine Green
                        Whinnie Pine (June 4, 1977 - April 29, 2008)
                        Autumn Caper (April 27, 1989 - May 24, 2015)
                        Murphy (April 28, 1994 - May 5, 2017)

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                        • #52
                          Keeping free leases from going bad

                          I may be a complete pain in the ass, but after a couple of bad experiences, I have made a rule that any horse that if free-leased by me goes with a written contract that I have the uncontested right to enter the premises anytime during daylight hours to check up on the horse and if necessary remove it. I always check up at least once a month for the first year and the first three visits are unannounced and I arrive with my truck and trailer. After that I vary the vists and phone calls. People are much less likely to try to pull something if they are being watched.

                          No one I have leased to has objected to these conditions and I have yet to lose track of any of my horses (several have even been returned to me when the lessee could not keep them). If they have a problem with the conditions, they need to look for someone less knowledgeable or more trusting.
                          Second place is first loser.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            I just want to add that I have spoken directly with the man who has my horse. He is the only person who is clear that it was a free lease and that I would be taking the horse back. The only reason why the woman is still involved is that once the man got the horse, he told her that I could not visit without her being present because he does not want to give the horse back. I still have not seen the horse, and have only been tackling them via phone. I have talked with attorneys and have given the man one week to speak with me and/or return the horse or I will be taking full legal action. I have become equipped with various witnesses, e-mails from the woman and i as well as other s at the barn who have now explained i have been frauded.

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                            • Original Poster

                              #54
                              I have all paperwork to my horse, he has none. I have bill of sale from when i bought him, coggins, papers, vet bills, farrier bills... etc...

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Good luck. Not all court cases turn out the way you would wish them to. Just depends on how the judge feels that day. You can file a civil suit for very little money, and have it served to him ... that might just scare him enough to give you the horse back. But I imagine your attorneys have advised you of this. Hope this horse is worth the cost.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Mr Wonderful View Post
                                  I have all paperwork to my horse, he has none. I have bill of sale from when i bought him, coggins, papers, vet bills, farrier bills... etc...



                                  I hope it works out for you, but your paperwork only shows that you owned the horse prior to January. He could say that you gave him the horse and now he has the paper trail. I really hope he gives the horse back to you.
                                  www.headsupspecialriders.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Mr Wonderful View Post
                                    I just want to add that I have spoken directly with the man who has my horse. He is the only person who is clear that it was a free lease and that I would be taking the horse back. The only reason why the woman is still involved is that once the man got the horse, he told her that I could not visit without her being present because he does not want to give the horse back.
                                    I think that's really weird. What does he think you will do if she's not there?

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Jingles that you get your boy back soon!
                                      <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Mr. Wonderful, what are you waiting for? Do not wait a week. Find a way to show up at the man's farm asap and just look for your horse.

                                        I free leased a pony many years ago to a woman who sounded ideal. Her story was that she owned a farm and her beloved pony, 'Nugget' had died. I was so touched by her story, I went out to her farm, checked it out, and even stopped at the local PD on my way out of town to make sure there had never been any complaints about her. She seemed so nice, I let her free lease my pony.

                                        I had a written contract that ensured the return of my pony if either of us wanted to terminate the lease for any reason. We stayed touch frequently and she seemed to love him. I was thrilled because I thought he was better off in work and he loved trail riding.

                                        Fast forward to a year and a half later. The woman called me out of the blue to tell me she wanted me to send her $500 for a vet bill. I reminded her that the contract stated that she was responsible for Merlin's vet bills during the lease, but if she didn't want him any longer, I would be there that weekend to bring him home. She called me back the next day, full of apologies, telling me that her colitis had flared up and she just 'wasn't herself' when she called me. She assured me that she loved Merlin and he was well and she wanted to continue to lease him.

                                        Something didn't seem right, so a few days later, I drove the 3 hour drive to her farm unannounced. Boy, was she surprised to see me. Merlin was gone, and she was a totally different person, screaming at me to get off her property and telling me that Merlin had just died and her neighbor had taken his body away for burial. When I told her I didn't believe her and I wanted to see where he was buried, she totally freaked out and threatened to call the police.

                                        I left and went to the local PD to file a report. I put ads in local papers and sent flyers to every tack store, feed store, veterinarian office and farrier in the area. My husband made two trips to the local auction barn when they were good enough to call me about ponies that somewhat fit Merlin's description, but neither one was him.

                                        I never found my pony, and I never got any satisfaction or answers from that horrible woman. I still worry about him, now almost 20 years later, and I never leased a horse or pony off my farm again.

                                        Mr. Wonderful, this man may have been honestly trying to help you, but his evasiveness seems suspicious. If you can find out where this man lives, get in the car and get yourself there asap, just to find out if your horse is ok. I hope everything works out for you and your horse.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by chai View Post
                                          I never found my pony, and I never got any satisfaction or answers from that horrible woman. I still worry about him, now almost 20 years later
                                          Chai, that is such a sad story! I am so sorry that happened to you and Merlin.
                                          I have a Fjord! Life With Oden

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