• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

spinoff of bolting thread: loss of use?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • spinoff of bolting thread: loss of use?

    Let's say you spend a small fortune for a horse that turned out to be unrideable and dangerous. Would that qualify as loss of use for insurance purposes?
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.

  • #2
    Unless there is an underlying soundness issue causing the behavior I would say no. It covers physical problems not suitability. Loss of use is very hard to collect on under the best of circumstances which is why most people feel it is not worth the expense.
    McDowell Racing Stables

    Home Away From Home

    Comment


    • #3
      Agree with Laurierace.

      But check the exact wording of your policy. If you don't already have a policy, then you are definitely out of luck!
      ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

      Comment


      • #4
        just my 2 cents as a lawyer for an insurance company - I would say definitely not. The policy's purpose is to ensure against illness or accident, so unless the loss of use results from either of those, the policy would not kick in.
        What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TheHorseProblem View Post
          Let's say you spend a small fortune for a horse that turned out to be unrideable and dangerous. Would that qualify as loss of use for insurance purposes?
          If the horse was sold with knowledge of those conditions that made it unsuitable, that is what attorneys are for, you regress that wrong thru a lawsuit.

          Insurance contracts specify what loss of use is and generally it means the horse was sick or injured so gravely there was loss of use, or a stallion becomes infertile.

          I don't think that, because you bought a horse for a task and he is not suitable, that falls into a true loss of use as intended for insurance purposes.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would be careful of trying to claim for loss of use. I do believe it is set up for serious injury and illness for the most part as has already been stated. I have also heard that in some cases the insurance company would not pay loss of use unless the horse was put down (this could be wrong - again, that part is something I have "heard"). I guess the theory is that if the horse has sustained a serious enough injury or illness for "loss of use" then it would be at the stage of putting down anyway? I would think the stallion's infertility would be the only exception to that line of thought.

            Again, I could be completely off the mark. Please someone else let me know if I am over-exaggerating - I don't mind and would like some further clarification myself. But, I think insurance companies would be very hesitant to pay out any $$$ for "loss of use" for a horse that *might* be "used" for another purpose in the future when it concerns riding/work use.

            Comment


            • #7
              "Loss of use" has a very narrow definition for insurance companies. 3'6" AO horse gets hurt and can't do that but still can jump 2'6"? That ain't "loss of use" because Wrecked Horse can technically still jump/be ridden. At least that's how I understand it.

              Also, once you collect on the claim, the horse belongs to the insurance co. They can do whatever they like with the animal.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


              • #8
                a little clearer?

                Originally posted by mvp View Post
                "Loss of use" has a very narrow definition for insurance companies. 3'6" AO horse gets hurt and can't do that but still can jump 2'6"? That ain't "loss of use" because Wrecked Horse can technically still jump/be ridden. At least that's how I understand it.

                Also, once you collect on the claim, the horse belongs to the insurance co. They can do whatever they like with the animal.
                Ahhh, this may be where I was getting the "put the horse down" information. My guess here is if the insurance pays out the claim and now owns the horse that has lost its use - the insurance company may/could determine that the horse needs to be put down as they could not recoup any $$ for the horse.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Depends on what your loss of use policy is and often there are 1 or 2 options. One options is that the insurance pays you a certain % and they have the option to take the horse (which is probably rare) or they pay out a certain % and you keep the horse. But you cannot claim loss of use because horse is a wacko..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by horseworld View Post
                    Ahhh, this may be where I was getting the "put the horse down" information. My guess here is if the insurance pays out the claim and now owns the horse that has lost its use - the insurance company may/could determine that the horse needs to be put down as they could not recoup any $$ for the horse.
                    Or sell the horse for another use it is still fit for, to remedy some of the losses, like a broodmare, trail riding horse, etc.

                    I don't think you can insure that your stake winning horse you insured for big money and loss of use and, if it now doesn't run well at al for you, you can get "loss of use, because he is not a stakes horse any more".

                    If he gets hurt and can't run any more, then you may qualify that as "loss of use", if that is in the contract.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by horseworld View Post
                      Ahhh, this may be where I was getting the "put the horse down" information. My guess here is if the insurance pays out the claim and now owns the horse that has lost its use - the insurance company may/could determine that the horse needs to be put down as they could not recoup any $$ for the horse.
                      I'm not privy to this, but I watched an competitive ammy who was married to a lameness guru of a DVM in NorCal in the 1980s do this. They were rumored to have collected on loss of use claims, buy the horse back for percentage and then lameness guru kept the horses going because he was the only guy who could.

                      Insurance co.s don't want to own horses, so I assume they sell the horse ASAP-- auction or whathaveyou.
                      The armchair saddler
                      Politically Pro-Cat

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                        Or sell the horse for another use it is still fit for, to remedy some of the losses, like a broodmare, trail riding horse, etc.

                        I don't think you can insure that your stake winning horse you insured for big money and loss of use and, if it now doesn't run well at al for you, you can get "loss of use, because he is not a stakes horse any more".

                        If he gets hurt and can't run any more, then you may qualify that as "loss of use", if that is in the contract.
                        You can't get major medical on race horses let alone loss of use. As soon as a tb goes to be broke the major medical is cancelled.
                        McDowell Racing Stables

                        Home Away From Home

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                          You can't get major medical on race horses let alone loss of use. As soon as a tb goes to be broke the major medical is cancelled.
                          That was an example only.
                          We quit running long ago, didn't know that is where the industry is now.
                          When we were running, you could buy at a sale and have the colt insured before it walked back in the sale barn stall.
                          Guess too many losses made insuring running horses a losing proposition?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You can still get drop of the hammer coverage but it is for mortality only.
                            McDowell Racing Stables

                            Home Away From Home

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                              You can still get drop of the hammer coverage but it is for mortality only.
                              What does that mean?
                              Jigga:
                              Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                Unless there is an underlying soundness issue causing the behavior I would say no. It covers physical problems not suitability. Loss of use is very hard to collect on under the best of circumstances which is why most people feel it is not worth the expense.

                                But seriously, that's a shame, because people spend big money on unstarted young prospects with great breeding (and I'm not talking about race horses) but if the horse has a mental illness (i.e. a screw loose causing dangerous behavior) the owner is SOL with a six-figure lawn pasture puff.

                                I guess that would be difficult to prove and easy to create in a horse, i.e. if the horse were mishandled enough to turn it into a bolter, that would be a less heinous fraud than electrocution the disappointing GP horse.
                                Last edited by TheHorseProblem; Jul. 19, 2011, 05:35 PM. Reason: duh
                                2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

                                A helmet saved my life.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X