Stallion Spotlight

BushyGeneology copy

Real Estate Spotlight

barn1
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

"I heard a rumour about your horse..."

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "I heard a rumour about your horse..."

    Help me out, COTH ethicists!

    By a weird coincidence, I saw a horse that I tried several years ago (and liked a lot) back up for sale. The horse seems as if it would be a good fit for a friend of mine who is looking for a low-level eventer. I contacted the seller, mentioned that I knew the horse and that I was not looking for myself but for a friend who is currently out of the country doing fieldwork and can't easily be reached for the next week or two. The owner mentioned that she no longer jumps the horse because she had a bad fall and broke her arm, but admitted that she was a fairly novice rider and said that the fall was her (rider's) fault, not the horse. Everything sounds good; I set up an appointment to come and see the horse.

    At a social gathering last night I mentioned my plan to see this horse to a casual friend who knows the horse and current owner because they boarded at the same barn and shared the same trainer. She told me that the trainer refused to work with the horse and owner because the horse was dangerous over fences (the trainer suspected a neurological problem as the horse sometimes just doesn't get her landing gear down). Trainer (also the BO) asked the owner to get a neurological workup on the horse and the owner refused. Owner was asked to leave the barn, and did.

    So, needless to say, I am not planning on getting on this horse anymore! However, I need to cancel the appointment with the seller. Do I just weasel out with a vague excuse, or should I tell her what I heard? The seller knows that I know people from her old barn, so may suspect that I have heard a version of the story anyway.... WWYD?

  • #2
    well, considering I'm the first to respond, i have nothing to compare my response to. But I always err on the side of honesty.

    Call up the seller and be point blank. Tell her you were so excited to come see the horse that you mentioned it unwittingly to some friends. Tell her what the friends said in a non confrontational way then explain that you want to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak whether this information is correct.

    Her reaction will tell you plenty about the whole situation and who to believe.

    Why not weasel out? Because if this horse is truly a danger to itself and anyone who rides it, this seller needs to know that this information is out there for a buyer to discover even if she herself is hiding it. May make her think twice about trying to pawn the horse off on an unsuspecting buyer. Of course it leaves the horse in a precarious position but if he truly is neurologically impaired he's already got the cards stacked against him.
    ...don't sh** where you eat...

    Comment


    • #3
      Just tell her your friend decided she wasn't buying right now and cancel. Short and sweet, no reason to get more involved than that.

      Comment


      • #4
        wow, if I believed every rumor without finding out anything on my own I probably wouldn't have any horses.

        I had a horse years ago that a BNT labeled wild and "insane" AFTER I wouldn't sell him to him.

        Believe your own eyes. Let the seller ride the horse for you if needed.
        Holly
        www.ironhorsefrm.com
        Oldenburg foals and young prospects
        LIKE us on Facebook!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thanks for your quick responses! Winfieldfarm - I left out some details in the OP for brevity's sake. Before I heard the story of the broken arm, I asked where she had kept the horse, and said that I knew the facility and some of the boarders there. She asked me if I was friends with the trainer and I said (honestly) that our paths had crossed a few times but that we aren't friends. She then told the story of the broken arm, but said that the trainer had never liked her horse, had overfaced both her and her horse and tried to save face by saying that the horse was not a good jumper. At the time, I thought it was possible as this trainer does have a reputation for pushing her clients hard.

          The situation sucks because I have a stupid soft spot for the horse from when I tried her way back when. It makes me sad to think that she might end up in a bad situation, but it scares me to think that she may be dangerous and will be passed on to someone without disclosure of her history. On the other hand, maybe there really is nothing wrong with the horse and I might be stirring the pot needlessly. I wish I was looking for myself -- then I could justify getting a PPE and knowing the answer!

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Iron Horse Farm -- unfortunately, the seller told me flat out that she won't jump the horse herself. I asked if someone else would show the horse for her and she made it sound as if that was impossible....

            Comment


            • #7
              Boy, I NEVER get on and jump someone's horse without seeing it first. Huge red flag.
              I hate to believe rumors, could you ask someone else? Then since you like the horse so much, I would talk to owner and see what comes up. If this story is going around, seller might be doing herself a favor if she had a basic neuro exam done and got a clear report.
              I just had to put a boarder's horse down that had a neurological problem. She refused to admit it until I forced their hand. Poor horse.
              Good luck.
              www.ncsporthorse.com

              Comment


              • #8
                All I can say is I hate rumors. Confront the seller with the knowledge you now have and see what you get from there.
                "If you've got a horse, you've got a problem"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fargaloo View Post
                  Iron Horse Farm -- unfortunately, the seller told me flat out that she won't jump the horse herself. I asked if someone else would show the horse for her and she made it sound as if that was impossible....
                  Sounds like reason enough to "weasle out" of seeing it. Regardless if you share this "rumor" with your friend who is buying are they still going to want to see the horse? I mean w/o the rumor if someone is selling a horse for eventing or any jumping discipline and you or the purchaser has to be the first one to jump it in who knows how long I suspect your friend will pass.

                  Unless as you say you are actually shopping for yourself, willing to make an offer on the horse w/o seeing it jump and then get a PPE don't think there is much you can do.

                  What about asking her to lunge the horse over a jump or a jump chute?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Definitely do not jump the horse without watching someone do so first. It was drilled into me when looking at horses w/ my trainer that you always have someone show you the horse first. For the 2nd horse, I looked @ a few without trainer's assistance and still would always have the owner ride first.

                    As to the rest - I wouldn't listen to the gossip. Go see the horse for yourself but insist that the owner find someone to show horse to you if you are going to jump it, which you obviously should if that's what your friend wants to do with horse. That in itself should probably encourage the owner to be honest.
                    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
                    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Event4Life View Post
                      I wouldn't listen to the gossip. Go see the horse for yourself but insist that the owner find someone to show horse to you if you are going to jump it, which you obviously should if that's what your friend wants to do with horse. That in itself should probably encourage the owner to be honest.
                      I agree to go see the horse yourself. The gossip could be true. . . or maybe not. You have a heads up that there could be a problem but we all know how chit chat gets out of hand.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can't see selling a horse without having someone to ride it. If I couldn't show it myself, you best bet I'd be paying someone to show it to potential buyers for me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Never get on a horse that the owner will not ride or can not find a person who will ride it.

                          You have nothing to lose by going to see the horse, but insist on someone riding it. If they will not, that is all the excuse you need to walk.

                          Just tell them that without a demo, you can't go any farther.

                          As for telling what you heard....that is not a good idea at all.

                          Assume the horse is either expensive or the person selling it is really mean or both. I am not a lawyer, but I believe the seller can put you in the position of forcing you to name the person who told you the horse is dangerous.

                          I do not know that for a fact, but I would be wary.

                          The point is that you do not need to tell what you have heard nor where you heard it. Go look and if no one will jump the horse for you, tell them that is a deal killer and hit the road.

                          CSSJR

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am with the person above who said that if the seller won't jump the horse, ask to lunge or free jump the horse over jumps before climbing on yourself. You should be able to tell a fair bit about the horse's ability to jump from free-jumping a gymnastic line.

                            If the horse does well on that, I'd lower the jumps, climb on and then raise them again if I felt that the horse was confident/honest/sound with a rider at lower jumps.

                            If the horse did well, I'd make sure that the prospective buyer did a thorough PPE, including a basic neuro exam, blood drawn, and have the vet watch the horse go at all gaits and on both hard and soft surfaces.

                            I guess what I'm saying is that I would not take the rumor at face value and by-pass a horse that you and your friend might otherwise find a strong partner. People (even--or maybe especially--well-meaning ones) have all kinds of reasons for repeating things they have heard; they often will couch it as something they know first-hand because they know that gives the information a sense of greater truth. IT's for that reason that I would not mention the rumor to the current owner.

                            But, forewarned (even if by a possibly scurrilous rumor) is forearmed. Do a thorough check.

                            Good luck.
                            "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cssutton View Post
                              Never get on a horse that the owner will not ride or can not find a person who will ride it.

                              You have nothing to lose by going to see the horse, but insist on someone riding it. If they will not, that is all the excuse you need to walk.

                              Just tell them that without a demo, you can't go any farther.

                              As for telling what you heard....that is not a good idea at all.
                              Yup! I wouldn't blindly believe the rumor. But, if nobody at their barn is willing to jump the horse, that's red flag enough even without the gossip behind it. Good luck!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I just watched as a "Rumor" completely unfounded and w/O supporting merit ruined a seller's sale..(not mine)

                                If you like the horse, go have a look, see someone else ride the horse, be careful and start w/ very elementary jumps and form your own eye witness opinion.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  If you liked the horse before, go see it. It could be that the problem is with the RIDER and not the horse.

                                  I've had many horses come to me who were supposed to be awful and found out I didn't have a problem with them. And sadly, I've had a few here that I couldn't get to behave who did well for someone else.

                                  Sometimes there's a 'personality problem' between a horse and rider/handler and that results in bad behavior. And sometimes the human overestimates their own experience and causes problems with the horse.
                                  Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                  Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I agree with those who say that not all rumors are based in truth, and would not necessarily stop me from at least looking.

                                    What WOULD stop me from looking is any time the horse's owner is unwilling to ride (or jump) their own horse and makes excuses as to why someone else can't do it. I would not do anything with a horse that the owner isn't willing to do (or in a few specific instances only like injury or pregnancy, have a rider of similar ability do). Based on that evasiveness alone, I'd pass on the horse.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Here in Oregon, I'm pretty sure the seller has to disclose if there are problems with the horse. I'm not sure because I've never looked it up, heard it second-hand but I've always told everything I knew about a horse so it's a non-issue with me anyway. Just tell the truth, simple.

                                      I'd watch someone else ride first at the very least. Use your head and don't go on emotions. (I know, very hard but it will save you more times than not).
                                      GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        If you like the horse, just get a full neuro workup done as part of the PPE. Remember some neuro things are fixable, such as EPM (medication) and EMND (megadose vitamin E supplementation).
                                        Jeanie
                                        RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X