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A little Rolkur with that reining champ?

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  • A little Rolkur with that reining champ?

    "Craig Schmersal - FEI World Reining Final 2011"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_90...layer_embedded

    Or maybe his "technique" should be called: "The Jerk Method"
    Luistano Stallion standing for 2013: Wolverine UVF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IZPHDzgX3s

  • #2
    Wow. That is so sad.
    ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
    *Bugs 5/86-3/10 OTTB Mare* RIP lovely Lady, I miss you
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    • #3
      Despicable! I can't wait till Divine Judgment hits CS!

      Reining sux altogether, imo: the ridiculous spinning of the horse like a dog chasing its tail, the grinding of the seatbones into the back for the stop, the tractionless shoes for an absurd slide (but look at the dirt fly!), the gallop pattern on the tractionless shoes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Western View Post
        Reining sux altogether, imo: the ridiculous spinning of the horse like a dog chasing its tail, the grinding of the seatbones into the back for the stop, the tractionless shoes for an absurd slide (but look at the dirt fly!), the gallop pattern on the tractionless shoes.
        Know how I know you don't actually know anything about reining?

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        • #5
          That is unbelievable-hope he comes back in his next life as one of his training horses and sees how he likes being treated that way. ANYONE WITH A BRAIN can see that is just cruel and horrible training. Anyone knowing anything about the biomechanics of the horse, knows that you cannot do that to a horse too many times without severe consequences for the horse. Hope she throws his @ss off.
          Equine Massage Therapy Classes and Rehab for Horses
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          • #6
            I'm surprised that anyone is surprised.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow. I'm not even sure what he's trying to achieve there. Another beautiful horse ruined by arrogant, ignorant "trainers"

              Comment


              • #8
                That was disgusting. At one point her head was almost parallel to the ground, it was tucked in so far.
                "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~John Wooden

                Phoenix Animal Rescue

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paragon View Post
                  Know how I know you don't actually know anything about reining?
                  Agreed... my reining instructor would kill me if I did that to my horse.

                  That was gross... the rundowns were especially disgusting. By the end the poor mare's ears were pinned so far back...
                  "Remain relentlessly cheerful."

                  Graphite/Pastel Portraits

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                  • #10
                    I have a question, does anyone know who or what the poster is, "eponatv"?


                    In Gallo-Roman religion, Epona was a protector of horses, donkeys, and mules.
                    From their website

                    http://epona.tv/uk/

                    EPONA.tv is produced by seasoned equestrian journalists with a special interest in the sciences of biomechanics, learning theory, nutrition, behaviour and management.
                    A read of their "news" appears that they are self appointed watchdog over horses in Europe.

                    http://epona.tv/uk/news/?no_cache=1


                    This poster doesn't just single out reining, appears to have posts on other disciplines.

                    Here's another, "Blue Tongue World Cup".
                    http://youtu.be/8hIXGiV4N4k


                    I question their motives and what these journalists have as an agenda.
                    The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Western View Post
                      Despicable! I can't wait till Divine Judgment hits CS!

                      Reining sux altogether, imo: the ridiculous spinning of the horse like a dog chasing its tail, the grinding of the seatbones into the back for the stop, the tractionless shoes for an absurd slide (but look at the dirt fly!), the gallop pattern on the tractionless shoes.
                      I question some of his techniques and methods, but you obviously have no clue what reining is. It was a training session not competition. We all have seen methods used in training that we ourselves would not use.
                      The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                        I question their motives and what these journalists have as an agenda.
                        Why? Because they're not puffing smoke up everybody's ass about how great the upper level riders are and how proud we should all be?

                        I applaud Epona. They're going after an issue even COTH won't touch.

                        The guy did what he did, the FEI stewards ignored it, and it's on video.
                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                          Why? Because they're not puffing smoke up everybody's ass about how great the upper level riders are and how proud we should all be?

                          I applaud Epona. They're going after an issue even COTH won't touch.

                          The guy did what he did, the FEI stewards ignored it, and it's on video.
                          That maybe the case. I question to what degree these "journalists" are taking their quest and what their agenda is.



                          From their site:

                          http://epona.tv/uk/news/show/artikel/new-definitions-from-fei/


                          Today, the FEI announced that rollkur and hyperflexion are no longer to be accepted, but LDR is to be allowed, and stewards will make the distinction based on whether the position is obtained by the use of "aggressive" or "undue" force, which already constitutes a violation of the Code of Conduct, and would be allowed under existing rules.
                          http://epona.tv/uk/news/show/browse/...al-equitation/


                          We have shown them half an hour's footage from two elite level horse shows. Nothing raised any eyebrows from officials or spectators at the time of filming. What you will see is not a spectacular line of clear cut cases of horse abuse. There is no blood and hardly any brutal whipping. It's ordinary horse training as it can be seen almost anywhere. And that's exactly the issue. Universally employed, "normal" techniques of horse training actually subjects horses to high levels of stress, pain and fear. We have just become so used to seeing this that we have stopped noticing. But it's time to start noticing again. Because if we don't clean up our sport soon, someone else is sure to do it for us. Forcing show animals to endure pain and fear for our entertainment is unlikely to be favourably looked upon from the outside.
                          How far does this group want to go? From their site:

                          28-05-2009 Features By: Luise Thomsen and Julie Taylor

                          Training or abuse?: Jan Ladewig: Far worse than rodeo
                          Some equestrian sports are often labelled cruel, while others are accepted as humane as a matter of course. But according to Professor in ethology and animal welfare at the University of Copenhagen, Jan Ladewig, dressage horses may have a worse deal even than rodeo horses. Prolonged pressure and pain without any view to escape is far more damaging for a horse's pshyche than eight seconds of motivational conflict followed by release, feels this researcher.
                          Last edited by 7HL; May. 26, 2011, 07:08 AM.
                          The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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                          • #14
                            IIRC Epona TV also posted the Blue Tongue video
                            I wasn't always a Smurf
                            Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                            "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                            The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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                            • #15
                              What's there to question? It's not a "he says, she says". It's on video right in front of your face. Who cares what the motives are, the fact is that it is disgusting, cruel training. Good for epona, regardless of their 'motives'.
                              .

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                              • #16
                                It scares me to think of what trainers like this (in any discipline) are doing when they are at home, out of the public eye.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Perhaps I'm blind, but I'm not seeing the outrage.

                                  I've seen more jerking on reins by lesson students in ALL disciplines.

                                  Heck, I've had to jerk on my own horse's mouth out on a nice, leisurely trail ride.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by caryledee View Post
                                    It scares me to think of what trainers like this (in any discipline) are doing when they are at home, out of the public eye.
                                    They are doing exactly the same, they don't think there is anything wrong with the way they train, you can see it in their instructional videos.

                                    There are plenty reiners that complain, but since some of those win, they have those that copy them.

                                    Too many have been warning that the last years that those fads of overbending and how some achieve it would come to haunt reining, just as it did western pleasure peanut rollers, the Parelli's jerking and clunking and bopping and such.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by JackandMo View Post
                                      Perhaps I'm blind, but I'm not seeing the outrage.

                                      I've seen more jerking on reins by lesson students in ALL disciplines.

                                      Heck, I've had to jerk on my own horse's mouth out on a nice, leisurely trail ride.
                                      Maybe you ought to learn bettter training techniques to achieve what you want without needing to jerk on a horse's mouth like that?

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by JackandMo View Post
                                        Perhaps I'm blind, but I'm not seeing the outrage.

                                        I've seen more jerking on reins by lesson students in ALL disciplines.

                                        Heck, I've had to jerk on my own horse's mouth out on a nice, leisurely trail ride.
                                        That is not a snaffle in that horse's mouth!

                                        So it is a leverage bit and what might the port look like? Well this is what Craig sells on his website:
                                        http://trainingtack.com/bits.htm
                                        Note the bit he recommends for a finished horse called the "Ace of Spades."

                                        I just watched the video again and paused it -the bit used has a very long shank and it probably is the one above but definitely a highly leveraged bit. NOT WHAT A LESSON HORSE WOULD EVER HAVE IN ITS MOUTH in any barn I have been to. But look at what he sells, those are some of the nastiest bits I have seen since I went to one of those museums that showed nasty bits from years past. Look at the ports on some of those bits at the bottom -yuck!
                                        Luistano Stallion standing for 2013: Wolverine UVF
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IZPHDzgX3s

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