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A "cowboy whoa"

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  • #41
    I was once in a WP class, loping happily along. The announcer said, "Stop, stop your horses."

    The little Appy mare hit the brakes so hard I came out of the saddle almost betwixt her ears. It was about the 2nd or 3rd time I'd ridden her. First time in a class. No one mentioned the 'stop' thing till after the class. Then the owner said he'd forgotten to tell me. She didn't do that verbal stop outside the arena. Smart little cookie! BTW, we placed 2nd against 30+ horses. The judge didn't see my abrupt stop.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

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    • #42
      You've gotten good ideas on the training...just wanted to share two quick funnies.

      1) I grew up riding Western. My mare was initially trained Western and had the "cowboy whoa" you speak of....closer to a sliding stop if you actually SAID whoa. We now go primarily English. Anyway, when I first half leased her out, I told the gal (an English rider) who was very vocal to be careful when she asked for a whoa because the horse would drop her hind end and whoa NOW.

      Well, no sooner had I mentioned this than she got into a canter and wanted to slow it down and instead of "easy" or some such, she said "WHOA!" and dang near became a lawn dart! LOL

      2) Had a kid out riding same mare. I was on another horse. Kid took off at a canter heading back towards the barn. She got nervous and kept leaning further and further forward causing the horse to go faster and faster--all the while I'm yelling "Sit up! Sit up!"

      Finally, in fear that she was going to get decapitated going under a tree or into the barn I just yelled "Cheyenne! WHOA!" And boom. Whoa. Kid was basically dangling like a monkey around the horse's neck and just dropped to the ground with a thud. Crisis averted. But I was sure happy for a good whoa that day!

      As far as how to teach, to be honest, it wasn't something I exactly set out to do. But a lot of the work that we DID do involved whoa, rollbacks, departs, whoa, rollbacks, departs. And of course backing.
      A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

      Might be a reason, never an excuse...

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Seriously_Hunter View Post
        I
        As a kid, we got a new mare into the lesson barn I rode at. I was the first to ride her and while in my lesson, one of the other students told her horse to whoa, well...the mare I was on WHOA'd and off I came! I flew up over her head and she stood there looking at me like I had 4 heads! "What are you doing down there? You asked me to stop!?" The previous owners didn't mention her amazing response to whoa!
        Similar experience here but I didn't come off, but my horse did it once or twice when I was riding during lessons, mostly if the rider or instructor had a similar way of saying Whoa as I did. It didn't take long until the instructors would say to their students "stop your horse" and that 3 seconds gave me enough time to apply leg to keep my horse from stopping when the student said Whoa to the horse they were riding.
        There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Trevelyan96 View Post
          I have one who has the 'body language' who down cold, but doesn't seem to understand the verbal when on the lunge or in the round pen. There are times I wonder if he's actually deaf, except for the way he'll spook at a sudden noise.

          So how do you install the instant Whoa when they're 20 feet away from you on the lunge line? Most of the time he'll stop if I jump in front of him an yell, but he just seems to get into this 'zone' where he's going around oblivious of the person standing in the center of the circle until you literally have to shout at him.
          Are you carrying a lunge whip? If yes, then what I do is this, tug the line, say whoa, if the horse does not stop, move your body postion angled more towards the horses shoulder than the hip (so that you are not inadvertently driving the horse with your body position), switch the whip to the hand closest to the horses chest, tug, whoa and then hold up the whip up in front of the horse about chest level. It basically becomes an extension of your arm and creates a barrier.
          There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Trevelyan96 View Post

            So how do you install the instant Whoa when they're 20 feet away from you on the lunge line? .
            free lunging first and they "get" that stopping and standing still gets a nummie (anti treat people look away now)

            it's just timing and reward for me

            Tamara
            Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
            I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

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            • #46
              I always said I wanted to do reining and I'm getting closer. If I ever train one, I'll teach it to stop from an "eerrrrr!" sound...Like the sound a car makes when you slam the brakes on.

              I'm easily amused.

              NJR
              Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.

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              • #47
                The ones I own and start do it. Its just consistency.

                Dan had almost deadly brakes, did you ever say whoa! Like you meant it when you were moving at speed?
                "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                ---
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

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                • Original Poster

                  #48
                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                  To a western trained horse, a whoa means back up.
                  The whoa is not really a static exercise in itself unless you want it to be.
                  You use your legs to control the backup into a stop.
                  You may want to try that.

                  Most western horses if you just move a tick your legs forward and out, the mere hint of it is enough, they will stop and start backing if you then not quickly close your legs around their middle to keep them there.

                  Nothing like sitting there talking to someone and, feeling stiff, forgetfully stretch your legs in the stirrups and your horse obediently starts to back up on you.
                  Guess who was not paying attention.
                  That is not an evasion, it is what the rider asked for.
                  You may want to consider your horse is not evading by backing, but doing what you are asking.

                  You can try what works best, once you learn to find whatever buttons may have been installed.
                  OMG this is it exactly. I have gotten some of these results just by messing around/on accident. Thank you! This is just the kind of insight I was looking for.

                  And EqT.... Dan had superb brakes. Then again, everything about him was superb. Not a day goes by that I don't miss that horse.....
                  We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

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                  • #49
                    a good whoa isn't all the tough to train, and doesn't require harsh measures. I usually start by teaching whoa on the lunge line, and then longlining. when I say whoa, I mean whoa.
                    If they move. sidle around, etc, I move them back to exactly where they were standing, and repeat whoa. (It's not hard, it's simply the same as teaching a dog to sit - dog moves.. what do you do? ask em again and make em sit in the same place they were )

                    U/S usually isn't a big issue, since it's pretty installed by the time I get em to the riding stage. Older horses who I restart - I begin but teaching them, to stand still while u/s. couple minutes here and there during whatever else we are doing, whether it be in the ring or outside. when training for a 'WHOA', I exagerate my aids alot (back and leg- never the face.. I hate the head tossing ugly 'whoa' that habit develops) when they stop, they get praise and guess what.. get to stand still..

                    stand still means not working - enough repetition combining that as a reward for a good whoa.. - you got cowboy brakes.. never fails. - and this is coming from a person who installs cowboy whoa, and ground tying on endurance arabians.
                    Originally posted by ExJumper
                    Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

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                    • #50
                      No harsh methods needed.
                      Everytime you want your horse to stop, relax, breathe out, say WHOA, and gently pull reins back. They will get it in no time. Do not utter the word WHOA unless you intend to stop, and and reward by releasing pressure IMMEDIATELY each and every time.
                      Can be done with a rope halter, snaffle bit, or 5 inch shanked bit.
                      Key items...release pressure as soon as their brain and feet have stopped thinking and moving forward. Reward. Repeat. Be CONSISTENT.
                      http://www.minuspride.blogspot.com

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                      • #51
                        establish a verbal whoa on slack on the ground, first. if you can't jog that horse in hand and whoa them on a word; don't expect it up top.


                        exhale slowly and completely
                        still your lower back/tighten your core
                        sit deep/turn your butt to puddin'
                        relax the thighs and take the legs ever so slightly off the horse
                        think whoa
                        say whoa
                        pause
                        pick your hand up to tell him to whoa in the face.

                        Stand around and rest. IF they get happy feet they get quietly and unemotionally put to work: sidepassing, tight tiny circles, something to move those feet where asked and how and Whoa.

                        Preceed the above with enough hard work that whoa sounds like a darn good idea.

                        Don't say it when you don't mean it.

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                          Most western horses if you just move a tick your legs forward and out, the mere hint of it is enough, they will stop and start backing if you then not quickly close your legs around their middle to keep them there.

                          Nothing like sitting there talking to someone and, feeling stiff, forgetfully stretch your legs in the stirrups and your horse obediently starts to back up on you.
                          Guess who was not paying attention.
                          That is not an evasion, it is what the rider asked for.
                          You may want to consider your horse is not evading by backing, but doing what you are asking.

                          You can try what works best, once you learn to find whatever buttons may have been installed.
                          I'm going to try this! Houdini was a western horse before I got him. I thought it odd that he doesn't seem to know how to back up.

                          But I've been asking by closing both legs and not giving with my hands. As I understand your description, I'm asking him to stay put by doing this? Houdini is figuring out I want him to back up, but he's hesitant - as though he's saying "You're sure this is what you want me to do?"

                          So you push your feet forward to ask the horse to back up?
                          I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                            I'm going to try this! Houdini was a western horse before I got him. I thought it odd that he doesn't seem to know how to back up.

                            But I've been asking by closing both legs and not giving with my hands. As I understand your description, I'm asking him to stay put by doing this? Houdini is figuring out I want him to back up, but he's hesitant - as though he's saying "You're sure this is what you want me to do?"

                            So you push your feet forward to ask the horse to back up?
                            Don't know how your horse was trained, but many basic western training today ask the horse to stop when you push your feet up a bit, then you close your legs to keep the horse there, or make them active to ask the horse to go from stopping to backing all as one.

                            You have to watch that the young horses don't anticipate that stops are basically taught with backing, that they learn you can stop their motion at any time, but in general, the stops mean coil up and be ready to move and backing reinforces that, always alert not to overdo it.

                            Here is one video you can watch how she does it, clear to see as she doesn't even has a bridle to help her:

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZIYM...eature=related

                            You just have to try different ways to find what your horse knows and then adapt it to what you want.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                              I'm going to try this! Houdini was a western horse before I got him. I thought it odd that he doesn't seem to know how to back up.

                              But I've been asking by closing both legs and not giving with my hands. As I understand your description, I'm asking him to stay put by doing this? Houdini is figuring out I want him to back up, but he's hesitant - as though he's saying "You're sure this is what you want me to do?"

                              So you push your feet forward to ask the horse to back up?
                              It does depend on how the horse was trained, mine will back with no rein pressure (full drape) if I just sit deeper, slighly shift my weight back, and move my legs forward and squeeze. It's not so much your feet, but your leg position on their body that is the button to push.

                              For example, if I want a turn on the haunches to the right (where the front is moving to the right around a stationary rear), I put my right leg slightly back (to hold the hip) and put my left leg forward, and bump with the left leg. If I want a turn on the forehand to the right (so the hips are moving to the right around the stationary forehand), I put my left leg back, right leg forward, and bump with the left leg.
                              There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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                              • #55
                                What a nice video - a pleasure to watch.

                                Thanks Bluey and MM - I'll try experimenting and see if I come across a cue Houdini recognizes.
                                I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                  I'
                                  So you push your feet forward to ask the horse to back up?
                                  yes you can

                                  Tamara
                                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

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