My friend was killed by dogs !!!

[NoGreatMischief]

My condolences, how horrific.

[All points]

There are no words. I am so sorry for your loss. My condolences.

[dogchushu]

rileyt,

I think the MSN story covered the event well without going into the good or the unsubstantiated allegations that later turned out not to be true.

If you're under pressure from a deadline and can't finish checking whether the allegations ever amounted to anything--leave out the personal stuff.

The woman was not a public figure. Nor was she making allegations against anyone (for the record, I'm opposed to naming rape victims, but that's beside the point). She was just someone who died tragically. Why drag her name through the mud for that? Because you want to know who she was personally?



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[Black Market Radio]

How sad. I am so sorry for the loss of this woman. Tragic indeed.

It reminds me of the case of Diane Whipple who was dragged through the mud by the defense lawyers when she was torn to bits by her irresponsible neighbors' dogs. They tried to make it out to be her fault. It was supposedly her perfume that set them off. Oh please. That is just stupid. So she should be to blame because heaven forbid she wears the wrong perfume and panics when two dogs jump on her while she desperatly tried to get into her apartment. I was SO happy with the decision in that court, and I hope they use that ground-breaking case as a model for this one. Owners should be tried for involuntary manslaughter because that is what this was. I don't see how this is much different from the Diane Whipple case. Two innocent people killed by dogs that should have been properly restrained.

Devilpups
"That's what we used to call butt-slappers" -GM

[breezymeadow]

This is beyond criminal - if there is such a thing.

I don't care if your dog is a pitbull or a chihauhau - jusr because you live "out in the country" doesn't give you the right to just let your dogs run free.

I am so SICK OF THIS I COULD SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM - & then scream some more.

What is it with you people?

"Duh - I've just bought a place in the "country". "Duh - it's the 'country', so obviously I can let my dog/cat regardless of whether or not they have been "fixed" run free, free, free as the wind blows". I mean, it's the country - who cares & what can happen?

It has reache the point here where I dare not leave mares & foals out unless I am home to "watch". And I am glad I started doing this, as last year my neightbor lost an extemely sweet yearling that had to be put down after being run thru a fence by a pack of our neighbor's dogs. Granted, the neighbor in question not only paid the vet bills, but alos put the offending dog to sleep, but please. This didn't have to happen in the first place if people would JUST BE RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

[lilblackhorse]

I am so sorry. I wanted to post on the other thread, but it was locked before I had the chance. All I had wanted to say there was that I was amazed that they weren't sure if they wanted to press charges against the owners. Good lord-it's a pity the neighbors don't just up and do a little vigilante justice and hang those idiots up by their netherregions. It is unconscionable that dogs who have attacked before were allowed to continue to run unabated.

How horrific for those people who had to witness it-sounds like something out of Cujo. Very scary dogs to be having run wild, much less in a pack.

Elippses Users Clique........Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group, "I hate stall rest"and now the "Better riding through Chemistry Clique"



"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

[Melzy]

Sincere condolences to anyone who knew this lady. My heart aches for her unimagineable death.

If we had a pack of similarly aggressive dogs roaming on our farm, they would have been shot first.

[Mustang Sally]

khobstetter, my sincerest condolences to you and Jennifer's family and friends.

I think a lot of the strong opinions voiced on this thread are a reflection of everyone's horror and sadness at what happened to your friend, even if it comes out as criticisms of other semi-related topics. When something this senseless and outrageous occurs, I can see how people react viscerally. Please don't let this take away from the memory of your friend - she sounds like a pretty special lady.

Amanda

"Waste no time arguing what a good person shall be, be one."
-Marcus Aurelius

[Stono Ferry]

So sorry for your loss.

[stegall]

As someone who is a dog owner and lover, and supporter of pro-animal related legisation, I absolutely feel that those dogs should have been destroyed a long time ago.

Its very likely that while roaming at large they were killing small animals, and by the time they progressed to human "prey" they were experienced.

I am also a dog attack victim. When I was young, a neighbors wolf/shepherd hybrid (this was in the 70's) came into our yard and grabbed me. the neighbors promptly destroyed the dog. It was an awful situation for all concerned.

These owners should be charged with reckless endangerment in addition to negligent homicide, and I am sure there are probably 3 or 4 other small things that can (and should) be thrown on top of that. The fact that the owner also has other criminal type charges against them only reaffirms my feelings about what they did.

Now, the newspaper dragging the victim through the mud I think is deplorable, and I hope the locals send emails/letters/editorials letting the paper know that this won't be tolerated.

Good grief, the whole thing just sucks.

[2Dogs]

I am so sorry for you and just horrified about your friend. Bless you for not making this a breed thing but a failure of HUMANS to correct aberrant behavior, even if it meant euthanasia.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"
Albert Einstein

[lauriep]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by breezymeadow:
This is beyond criminal - if there is such a thing.

I don't care if your dog is a pitbull or a chihauhau - jusr because you live "out in the country" doesn't give you the right to just let your dogs run free.

I am so SICK OF THIS I COULD SCREAM, SCREAM, SCREAM - & then scream some more.

What is it with you people?

"Duh - I've just bought a place in the "country". "Duh - it's the 'country', so obviously I can let my dog/cat regardless of whether or not they have been "fixed" run free, free, free as the wind blows". I mean, it's the country - who cares & what can happen?

It has reache the point here where I dare not leave mares & foals out unless I am home to "watch". And I am glad I started doing this, as last year my neightbor lost an extemely sweet yearling that had to be put down after being run thru a fence by a pack of our neighbor's dogs. Granted, the neighbor in question not only paid the vet bills, but alos put the offending dog to sleep, but please. This didn't have to happen in the first place if people would JUST BE RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I bred Dalmatians, I ran into this argument over and over. When I asked if the prospective puppy buyers had a fenced yard, a requirement of ine, they would answer "We own property in the country!" And I would respond, "And is this property in the country FENCED?" They could not understand why, living in the country, they were expected to keep their dog confined. They could not understand how little time it takes a dog to cover MANY acres and be OFF your property, especially if in hot pursuit of another animal. And that even "property in the country" has roads accessing it that dogs can STILL get onto.

It is a mindset I've never been able to understand.

Kathy, my deepest sympathy to you and Jennifer's family. This was totally senseless, and a clear illustration of that not only do you need to have the necessary leash/vicious dog legislation on the books, you need to enforce it.

Laurie

[Heather]

I've posted many times about my expereince with a pack of dogs (attacked and chased my pony herd, they went through the fence, into the road, and several were hit and killed by cars). There is not a single issue that makes my blood boil more than that of loose dogs roaming, in packs or solo. When I think of this woman, well, there are no words for my sorrow for those she left behind, and my anger and rage at the dog owner.

I live in a semi rural area, but hardly the middle of the country, and my dogs are about the only ones confined. I regularly get visits from various canine, and it makes me NUTS. I simply cannot understand why anyone thinks it's acceptable for their dogs to be left to the winds--even if you don't give a dman about me and my animals, don't you care your dog could be pizza crossing a semi busy road 20 times a day?

I own a wonderful Doberman, who is the light of my life. Because he is a breed that has a reputation, I understand the fear of breed-related legislation. And I guess I probably wouldn't support it. BUT, I think anyone who thinks that pit bulls aren't "different" is fooling themselves. That doesn't mean there aren't lovely ones. It doesn't mean that I think they should all be rounded up and destroyed. Or that no one should have one. But they are loaded guns. Many people can own them without them going off. Most people can't, and shouldn't.

Dobies had a bad reputation, and for a while there, it was deserved. But the breed took stock of itself, and decided to alter their focus and breed true all around working dogs--the breeds original focus, rather than agressive guard dogs. The pit people by and large, have not been able to do that (because, unfortunately, many of the people int he breed, like the agressive tendancies)--so I do think there is a difference, between my Dobie, who comes from a long line of search and rescue dogs, and a Pittie, who still has fighting blood somewhere up close.

Either way, thsi was a terrible tragedy, I am so so sorry for her loss.

[IJ]

My roommates have a 4 year old female pitbull. When they first moved in, I did have reservations about her, even though she really is the sweetest dog. I've never seen a malicious display of behavior from her, but just when playing with toys, the power of that dog is alarming. Regretfully, my roomies are the idiotic types who rarely use a leash (although most days she's simply let out into our tiny fenced courtyard). One day I came home from work and she was in the front yard of a neighbor's house playing with a group of children. I was LIVID. I grabbed Jada (the pit) and pulled her inside and told my roommates that I would call animal control MYSELF if it ever happened again. It's just too risky, regardless of how well-behaved you percieve and animal's behavior to be.

My roommates are good people, but they shouldn't own this dog. These other dogs could be owned by a saint and I would still want her prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

As for breed-specific legislation... I don't like it, but hey, the stigma is out there and it's out there for a reason. The threat of these laws is obviously not deterring irresponsible owners from making changes, so even if it prevents one more person from meeting a terrible, violent end, I think it's worth passing the legislation. JMHO...

My deepest, most sincere condolensces.

[HFSH]

I have a question.

In some states, Stallions are considered "lethal weapons." So is it possible to classify certain aggresively bred dogs as "lethal weapons" so if someone gets killed by these dogs, the owners can be charged more aggressively?

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental. | WBNA | MBG SSA!

[Paddys Mom]

First, I am very sorry to hear about this poor woman. What a horrible way to go!

Also, I recently moved to the "country" and have witnessed this phenomena where everyone lets their dogs run free. One dog tried to chase my horses and my gelding kicked him in the head. I felt bad for the dog - stupid owners. Another neighbor's dog was going to the bathroom in my yard and scaring my dog so much that he was afraid to go in our yard. You could tell he had to go, but he was too scared. We have finally gotten things under control, but our relationships with our neighbors will never be the same.

Here is another odd situation - when we moved, I called my insurance company. I have been with them for over 10 years - auto for 2 cars and homeowners'. In casual conversation while updating my records, they discovered that we had adopted a dog. I told them that my vet guessed that he was a lab/shepherd/greyhound mix and they told me they were dropping me - just like that! Shepherds are on their "uninsurable" list. I tried to backpedal and say that we really don't know what breed he is, but it was too late. The next insurance company I called, I simply said he was a "lab mix". This dog is a never unsupervised inside dog, with obedience training and a well-respected invisble fence.

Something tells me the people in this story probably had no problems with their insurance.

[Pixie Dust]

Wow, that's good to know PM. I guess insurance companies are taking this stuff seriously. I don't know how they decide, but I'm guessing they just use statistics.

A related incident. My SIL was sitting on the front porch of her rowhouse with her dog, Gracie. Gracie is a Sheperd mix. (She looks like a mini-sheperd; probably 30 pounds.) Well, an elderly man was walking on the sidewalk, and suddenly Gracie ran at him and barked. He got scared and tried to get away and fell down and broke his hip. It was settled out of court, but SIL was held legally responsible and her homeowner's policy had to pay.

I'm just telling this a warning to others. Even if you know your dog doesn't bite, they can still harm someone. I know my docile Greyhound could scare the bejeezes out of people because she looked a bit like a dobie. It's hard for me to understand, because I have never been scared of dogs (though these stories of packs...OMG), but some people are deathly afraid of dogs.

The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

[nhwr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Even if you know your dog doesn't bite, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pardon me for using you to make my point, PD, but these kind of assumptions just drives me crazy. Would you ever guarantee your horse won't kick?

The only kind of dogs I know won't bite are dead ones. Any dog will bite! My dog is the gentlest creature I have ever met. And I know she would bite in certain circumstances. She just would do as much damage as something with vice grip jaws. Also dogs percieve human behavior differently than we do. If a dog sees a person who is frightened and feels threatened, they assume it will do what a dog would do in those circumstances - attack them. So often they launch a pre-emptive attack. That is just their nature. Dogs are wonderful. But tragedies happen when we don't understand them.

[BabyGoose]

I know what you mean breezymeadow. I hate it when people let their animals run wild because they are "out in the country". Lucky for us, our state allows you to shoot any dog harrassing your livestock, and we have.

I am so sorry khobstetter. When I first heard the report I only heard it was a horse trainer SE of Parker and my heart fell as I have a very good friend that lives in Kiowa and I was scared it was my friend. This is such a terrible, sad, tragedy that should never have happened.

[Pixie Dust]

I totally agree nhwr. Had I given my post more thought, I would have written "Even if you think your dog won't bite". You can never be 100% sure of any animal's reaction.

The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde