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Sex abuse in the Horse World

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  • Infanticide is hardly something the current generation has invented. Putting the baby in a dumpster is the modern day equivilent of exposure, suffocation, or any number of other things that have been used to rid yourself of an unwanted child throughout history.

    Doesn't make it right, but please. We have established parents, over the age of 40, with 12 kids - forgetting their infant in a van, letting the baby roast to death.

    I'm not condoning the actions of those teens who choose to go that route - I can't imagine putting ANY living thing in a dumpster to die, much less a human baby. But this isn't something new.

    -Albion

    'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well, if our noble Director of the FDA has his way, unmarried women won't have access to birth control, anyway. and we'll all be praying to alleviate menstrual cramps. (unbelievably frightening he's an OBGYN) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



      Mark McClellan is the new FDA Administrator. In his bio (posted below) it says nothing about his being an OB-GYN. Calico, are you referring to Dr. McClellan?

      In November 2002, Mark B. McClellan, M.D., Ph.D., became the 18th Commissioner of Food and Drugs after being nominated for the post by President Bush. Prior to coming to the FDA, McClellan, 39, was a member of the president's Council of Economic Advisers and helped draw up plans for Medicare reform and other policies.

      A native of Austin, Texas, McClellan was a professor, physician, and health care economist at Stanford University before moving to Washington, D.C., in 1998 to work in the Clinton administration. After a hiatus during 1999-2000, he returned to Washington and to his work as a presidential adviser in 2001. McClellan received his medical degree from the Harvard-Massachusetts Institute of Technology Division of Health Sciences and Technology in 1992. He received a doctorate in economics from MIT a year later.

      Colleagues say his intensity and desire to make a difference will serve the agency well.

      "His analytical skills are top-notch," says Alan Garber, M.D., Ph.D., who, like McClellan, is a physician and economist at Stanford. "He's an excellent physician and an accomplished economist who will bring new and creative thinking to the agency."

      Comment


      • Are you talking about Ashcroft (Attorney General)? He's quite ... um ... conservative on some matters, to say the least.

        -Albion

        'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

        Comment


        • DEFINATLY NOT BRAGGING! I would never have sex to get something in return. The story is one that did happen but not to me.


          Someone had asked about the thread that Kelsey had started a few years ago about doing things (not necesarily sex) for rides and that scenario is one that came up.
          Marion
          *Amalia*

          Comment


          • Actually JL -
            YOU SAID THIS "You've over stepped-the line here. I hardly think Sandstone has been bragging nor do I think your implication that she's to drop her pants at the wave of a flag as you so charmingly put it,is fair."

            not moi!! Please don't put words in other people's mouths.

            And actually Sandstone said this "Although still a proud member of the jr cliques I am an adult I show in the adults without a harnes, have relationships with men in their late 20s BLAH BLAH BLAH "

            Perhaps it doesn't pay to advertise.
            Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
            "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calico:
              starlite is Emma <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              LOL. Not that I know of. Emma and I are really close(have been for a few years...the MHC bond) and when I talk to her on the phone and online(did so just this morning), she says that she doesn't miss posting over here after being uncerimoniously booted.

              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Well then among many other things Emma is a liar. Shall I copy the PT she sent me this morning?

              Next time, Emma, when you post a classified ad, you might not want to use your real initials.

              Comment


              • RugBug, you are my hero! (Seriously!) I also have a dear friend who was a virgin until 30, when she met her boyfriend (now fiance!). Her explanation (as if she needed one) was that, up to that point, she hadn't met anyone she loved enough to sleep with. She's my hero, too, and I told her so!

                dressager, I too am the kind of person for whom sexually-involved relationships would be a bad idea. Somehow I feel that if I go that route too soon, I might settle on a man who's not right for me. If I put that kind of investment into a relationship, I'd have a very hard time letting it go, even if it was unhealthy. I think some of us just aren't wired to handle many sex partners during our lives.

                Ultimately, you will have to make the decisions that are right for YOU. I know in my heart that this is the right thing for me, and one day I will be very glad that I waited. If you feel that way too, take heart in knowing that you aren't alone.


                I realize I am partially responsible for steering this thread off-topic, and for that the OT Police have my sincerest apologies. But how can you discuss sexual relations between adult trainers and minor students without somehow discussing teen sex in general? IMO, the two are inextricably related. If there wasn't already such pressure on young girls to have sex, don't you think they might find it just a little easier to say "no" and walk away, even from their all-powerful, all-knowing trainer?

                FWIW, when I was 17 I had a male trainer (age 32, in a rocky marriage) who I absolutely adored, and fell head-over-heels in love with. He had to have known, at least on some level, but he never did anything about it. Even if he had, MY firm moral standards would have kept me from going along. It would have been hard, but I know I could have resisted. I had long ago decided to remain a virgin until marriage (or close to it, anyway ). A girl who wasn't so sure of herself, or who behaved in a sexually-precocious way, could have spelled disaster for this man at that point in his life.

                I guess what I'm saying is that while we may not be able to resist falling in love, we CAN resist acting on it. This goes for trainers/adults as well as teens. Each of us has the ultimate power to control our actions, if not our emotions. Resistence is not futile.

                *Member of the Dirt Divers 78th Airborne Unit, ATH Squadron*
                *When WILL My Beval Devon Arrive?*

                Comment


                • My daughter got her period at 11 - I didn't until the age of 14. Most of her girlfriends are menstruating and most have developed hips, breasts; are in the full throes of physical development. When you compound this early development with a social tendency to sexualize young girls - I worry that they will be prey to men who believe them older than their actual years. I also worry that in the void of information and honest discussions about sex, sexuality, their bodies, young girls are terribly confused, insecure and more susceptible to the mass media's message of How A Young Girl is Supposed to Be/Dress/Act.

                  I agree, BTW, wholeheartedly with hobson - I think education and honesty is the only way that we can empower girls and women to exercise full control over their bodies and sexuality, so that rather than succumbing, young girls will, in the cited incident, more likely react with a swift kick aimed where it hurts the most.

                  And I do not think regret over a relationship, encounter or affair is exclusive to any one age group. I know more women who regret the relationships of their '20's and '30's than they do those from their teen years.

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enema:
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calico:
                    starlite is Emma <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    LOL. Not that I know of. Emma and I are really close(have been for a few years...the MHC bond) and when I talk to her on the phone and online(did so just this morning), she says that she doesn't miss posting over here after being uncerimoniously booted.

                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Well then among many other things Emma is a liar. Shall I copy the PT she sent me this morning?

                    Next time, Emma, when you post a classified ad, you might not want to use your real initials.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    would you please leave me alone? I'm getting a little creeped out here.

                    Comment


                    • I have haven't read a post that has called anyone's behavior "shameful", but its a long thread, I could have missed something. I think ponygrl said she "gave it up" and referred to herself as "a huge slut" sarcastically. Also I think that when people make decisions that have potentially serious consequences (like pregnancy or exposure to serious diseases) without know what they wanted or what they "got out of it" years after the fact are not aware of why ther are making the choices they make ie "in denial".

                      The only reason I point this stuff out is because it really concerns and saddens me. There is a lot of discussion about this subject that is devoid of any real emotion. When posters have asked "How does love figure into this?" there is no real response. I don't think sex before marriage is wrong. But I can tell you I think sex without love is just plain awful. If it is just about feeling good, there are simpler ways that involve no risks to feel good. They work fine, if you are not after some sort of external validation.

                      I guess it strikes me as ironic that we should all assume that these girls are mature enough to sexually active without question, but we need to be concerned that the opinions of virtual strangers could be so damaging to them. I mean either they are mature or they aren't. A strong understanding of self and resiliancy would seem to be a logical prerequisite to the level of maturity required for healthy sexual activity. Yes, there are 15 year olds in the 3rd world that have the roles and responsibilities of adult women forced upon them. That is in the 3rd world!!!! It is not generally looked upon as a positive thing for the women of those cultures. The sexualization of children, and girls in particular, runs soooo deep in our culture that it doesn't surprise me that many younger people can't see it. It is just part of life to them. For women today, it seems like the only way to gain power that isn't percieved as threatening is through sexuality. Sorry but that isn't why I burned my favorite Olga in the mid 70's.
                      See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                      Comment


                      • Thanks NHWR for the comments on the differences in the THIRD WORLD cultures. I also didn't go to demonstrations for women's rights to have the next generations head in the opposite direction and end up being child brides. Yes adolescents are physically able to have sexual relations but not mentally mature enough to enter into relationships. And they certainly aren't ready to be parents. Just because it occurs in under-developed civilizations doesn't make the arguement for our culture reverting to the dark ages.

                        I can't believe people allude to the fact that sex isn't talked about enough. Sometimes I think it's discussed far too much in the wrong way and in the wrong setting. Academic presentation of what goes where and how was something we learned (even in the 60's) from our gym teacher. What we learned about relationships, love, honor, respect and self esteem came from our parents and our families and our church. NO - we didn't buy into all of it and YES we certainly questioned ALOT OF IT. But somewhere in there a mix evolved and while we did assert our rights to make decisions about our bodies (and ourselves - remember that book?)...we also understood we had a lot of responsibility with the power of decision.

                        I'm just not hearing this pride of self. Everyone keeps trying to twist the issue of virginity or chastity into something you're offering. I think being a bit more selective with respect to those who share you body - isn't what you are offering - it's who you ARE as a person and the depth of your character. Maybe the over materialistic emphasis now has turned young women into thinking their bodies are part of a barter system. That would be horribly sad if true.
                        Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                        "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

                        Comment


                        • I agree partly with you, nhwr. Especially about the Olga - they aren't sold in Canada so I stock up whenever I'm in the States. Also agree that sex within the context of love is absolutely lovely. I do think, though, that 16 or 17 year olds who truly believe themselves in love, and hence are sexually active with the object of their love, are as convinced of the strength of their love as a woman of, say, 25, or 45. I can probably name a couple of handfuls of girlfriends, anywhere from 22 to 50, who've kicked themselves after a failed relationship. Unfortunately, no one's immune to having their heart broken, their hopes dashed - whatever their age.

                          To your points regarding the sexualization of young girls in our culture (an asessment with which I totally agree), how do we empower young girls and teens to exercise a power that isn't intrinsically sexual? How do we enable them to feel self-posessed and powerful outside the context of their physical desirability? In my mind, that's the sheer beauty of riding for young girls - how empowering to feel the confidence when you maneuveur a 1,000 lb. animal around a course!

                          Comment


                          • Blah. Enema, don't hide behind your alter. It's sad and pathetic. Get a life.

                            June 10th, 2003. D(idi)-Day.....Le Retour Part II
                            Centre Equestre de la Houssaye
                            See our flyer to learn more!
                            ---WHX---

                            Comment


                            • OK - NOT hiding behind an alter ...
                              I know who Enema is, and I know who Starlite is ...

                              and one of them is hiding a lot more than the other.
                              Mal:This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then .... explode

                              Comment


                              • I'm sorry. But I can't resist:

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
                                Blah. Enema, don't hide behind your alter. It's sad and pathetic. Get a life.
                                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                There is something very humorous about saying "Get a life" to an alter who's apparently outed the alter of a banned poster. Methinks it ain't only "Enema" who needs to get a life.

                                On the subject at hand, however, I am always fascinated about how puritan this country remains when the discussion turns to sex. We can handle a lot, but sex always seems to undo us.

                                I'm making NO judgment, BTW, on whether someone chooses to or chooses not to have sex; the important issue is that the person has the choice and it's really none of my business what that choice is. Where it becomes an issue for those of us looking on in the horse world is when an adult takes advantage of the position of power and authority vested in him or her.

                                And, yes, I have told parents of young girls that they need to watch out for certain trainers. Much as I have had similar talks with pretty new female workers who catch the eye of an unsavory type in my office.

                                ***Dear Sam: All I really want for Mother's Day is FLYING LEAD CHANGES!!***
                                Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

                                Comment


                                • Heidi,

                                  I don't have an issue with 16/17 year olds in a committed relationship exploring that relationship, if they are informed, mature and responsible. I recognised that all this, even with the benefit of age (and supposed wisdom ) doesn't equal perfect judgement or a happy ending. That is part of the whole experience. It is the cavalier and casual attitude, that concerns me. I hear phrases like "friends with benefits" or "sport f$%king", it is girls in middle school performing intimate acts with boys on a school bus during field trips (this happened in my town, for real), it is thinking that some aspect of what you are is a "complication", just a non virgin used to be considered damaged goods, that makes me wonder what the hell is going on?

                                  I am not not talking about broken hearts, here. That is part of love and life, it is necessary to a certain extent. I think there is a heartlessness and a loss of self just below the surface of these casual attitudes. It is not that I worried that our young girls are loving too much. It is more that I think they may never really know love. I know that sounds kind of melodramatic and I hope it is. I totally agree that teaching girls that their bodies are powerful, magical and beautiful is important. For me growing up with horses was a huge part of that. A guy had to meet pretty high standards to get me away from my horse.

                                  I really believe that there is a strong connection between the body and mind. Sex is a binding experience, especially for women. That is just part of our evolution. It doesn't dictate our destiny, but I think we make light of it or ignore that at our peril.
                                  See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                  Comment


                                  • I'm 17, lets just get that out in the open right now. I'm also a very mature 17, whose friends range from 17-55. That said, I AM NOT mature enough for a sexual relationship. I'm not ready for a long relationship.

                                    If a trainer told me that in order to keep riding, I'd have to sleep with him, I would tell him to F___ himself, and go straight to my mother, and the police, and the parents of other riders, because if he is saying it to me, you can be dam! sure he is saying it to someone else. I would have done that at 14, and I would do it when I am 32. Who do I have to thank for my views? I have an awesome mom, who taught me to question authority. Yeah, it works. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, or sleep around. I'm popular, I hang with 'the in crowd' (how snobby do I feel saying that?) But I don't feel I have to prove anything to anyone.

                                    I know people who are sleeping around. Heck, I know someone who was in grade 7, and trying to keep her boyfriend. I also know someone who was in grade 8, and told the guy to go to he!!. Who do I respect more... the latter.

                                    My good friend does it so that she'll feel loved. She thinks they actually care about her. Guys don't, most don't anyway, at any age if they are gonna get some, they want it.

                                    This is rambling, but I feel that the greatest violation is having our choices taken away. Different factors will do this, and that matters more then my virginty. I decide when and who, not some random stranger.

                                    Comment


                                    • whatever, if it's that important to all of you BBers that I leave and never come back, just say so and I will. and no, this is not a pathetic cry for attention.

                                      Comment


                                      • Why is it ok for guys to be casual about sex still, but not women?

                                        There has not been a single post on this topic about young men being sexually harassed, by either male or female trainers.

                                        Why, after all those burned bras are you older women upset that there are many young women with an attitude towards sex like many male jocks? And why are you not railing against the young men having sex with these women?

                                        Double standard is alive and well from my interpretation of the past several pages on this thread.

                                        Mel

                                        Comment


                                        • So, Starlite, does that mean you will admit that you are Emma?
                                          Mal:This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then .... explode

                                          Comment

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