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Jimmy Doyle charged with sex abuse of a minor

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JER:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If she acts older, looks older, and says she's older, then how is the man wrong? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    How about if she looks older, acts older but shows as a junior?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That was not said in any of the articles (never said she rode), and those are the facts I thought we were discussing...

    If that was the case, and he knew it, he deserves to go to jail...

    Comment


    • On the whole, she could have lied about her age thing...

      It's not like he was an 18 or 19 year old guy who could have mistaken her for a girl around his age, he is atleast 40 something.

      Also, why would you lie about your age to be with a guy who is old enough to be your dad? And then charge him with sexual assault and put yourself on display to the public? It doesn't seem to me like this family is trying to ruin his life or anything...

      _________________
      Forture: Wise people always check their speling.

      Comment


      • right on hobson!
        And now I'm going to be un-PC and say: (BTW, I mean this impersonally and NOT related to any specific case)
        Man of nearly fifty + Girl in teens (I don't care if she IS 18 and therefore legal)= ewwwww. It may be legal but I still think it's grody.

        Comment


        • Exactly, RzB.

          I can fathom a young girl, even of 14, flirting with an 18 year old boy, and perhaps lying about her age, or having a crush on Colin Farrell -- but a man near fifty? I'm racking my brain trying to think of a 14 year old girl with a crush on Michael Douglas or Harrison Ford.

          And to add to nollekins' political incorrectness. As a mother of a daughter on the cusp of 13, even if found innocent, I'd still avoid any trainer who bore that 'taint'. Harsh, I know; and probably unfair. But I'd always wonder and worry. Better seemingly safe than sorry in this instance.

          Comment


          • Did you ever here of the term "hero worship?" Or Sven Gali (sp)?

            It DOES happen, and more often than you would think.

            Laurie
            Laurie

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heidi:
              Exactly, RzB.

              I can fathom a young girl, even of 14, flirting with an 18 year old boy, and perhaps lying about her age, or having a crush on Colin Farrell -- but a man near fifty? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
              It definetely happens and I've seen it many times. High school teachers, coaches, older friends boyfriends, the farrier

              I think it's looking for a father figure myself ....

              Crushes of that kind are fairly normal, an adult man acting on them is however NOT OK, and obviously most don't.

              Comment


              • But, maggy, someone 30+ years your senior?

                I could envision a crush on a trainer, teacher, coach, etc. at 16, say, but at 14? Perhaps I'm personalizing as the mother of an almost-teen but I'd be baffled if she developed a crush on someone, heck, a decade older than me. And then to further act on that crush in a sexually provocative way? Again, colour me baffled.

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted By Heidi:
                  I could envision a crush on a trainer, teacher, coach, etc. at 16, say, but at 14? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Heidi? It is time to wake up and join the rest of us in reality.

                  Comment


                  • I do not know anyone tied to this case. I do not know if the accuser is a rider or not. BUT as one who is 33 and has many "mature" cousins, nieces and nephews, between the ages of 14-18 years old, it only takes a few minutes of conversation with these folks to realize that they are teenagers! Do you think that a 14 year old is able to carry a conversation equal to that of a 24 year old?

                    Comment


                    • Are we still discussing hypotheticals? It seems there's a lot of discussion about whether someone knew about a persons age or not and whether they should have. A valid discussion, but for the case at hand, we don't actually know yet that anything even happened. (Unless I missed something.)

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE]Originally posted by seahorse:
                        Here's another possible scenario - perhaps the "child" at 14, is not so "innocent"...Should we always put the blame on adults?
                        perhaps it was a set up?

                        It doesn't matter. At 14, the "child" is legally just that, a child. She (or he in other cases) cannot consent.

                        Legally, as a society we don't care what the intentions were. It doesn't matter how old someone thought the victim was. It doesn't matter if the victim lied about age. All that matters is the age and the act (was there contact, and contact is usually very broadly defined)

                        I hope Mr. Doyle is innocent.

                        Charles

                        Confused owner of Finders Keepers and Jon William who was sad to learn he couldn't come home like the dogs

                        Comment


                        • We can leave this thread hypothetical, or start a new one, either way - I believe the discussion is very important.

                          This is a quote from the USOC Coaching Ethics Code, which applies to all sports under the USOC. There is a similar one as part of the FEI, but I only have that in pdf form, so can't copy and paste... (this is only the section on Sexual harrassment - there are other sections that discuss conflicts of interest, etc.

                          Interesting document...
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 1.08 Sexual Harassment
                          (a) Coaches do not engage in sexual harassment. Sexual harassment is sexual solicitation, physical advances, or verbal or nonverbal conduct that is sexual in nature, and that either:
                          (1) is unwelcome, is offensive, or creates a hostile environment, and the coach knows or is told this;
                          (2) is sufficiently severe or intense to be abusive to a reasonable person in the context.
                          Sexual harassment can consist of a single intense or severe act or of multiple persistent or pervasive acts.
                          (b) Coaches accord sexual-harassment complainants and respondents dignity and respect.
                          Coaches do not participate in denying an athlete the right to participate based upon their having made, or their being the subject of, sexual harassment charges. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!
                          co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                          Comment


                          • Ummm Heidi and other Canadians - achtung, a big heads up . . .

                            Pierre Trudeau as justice minister (age 47 or 48 can't remember exactly) met one Margaret Sinclair, age 18 at a Club Med and proceeded to chat her up . . .

                            Three years in 1971, the now Prime Minister of Canada, Pierre Eliot Trudeau, married Margaret Sinclair, age 21.

                            Powerful older men and beautiful younger women have always been going together. The ethical norms of the middle class are often not applied with the upper class.

                            Remember Michael Kennedy?? Started an affair with his children's babysitter - age 14????

                            Hmmmm

                            sidenote: HOBSON (bike chick): check it out . . . www.tctrail.ca

                            TransCanada Trail

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                              How about if she looks older, acts older but shows as a junior?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              a lot of the "juniors" are really 18 yeas old.
                              I am always suspicious when someone as well respected and successfull (as Mr Doyle) isaccused of something like this. Even if it is not true, and he is found not guilty, it has already tarnished his who;e person (peronally and professionally). This in itself cn be viewed as a "success" for the acuser (whatever their motive).

                              **&gt;&gt;It's not bragging if you can back it up!&lt;&lt;**
                              Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                              Comment


                              • everyone dressed alike in riding clothes, it is hard to tell...until they ask if we knew Paul McCartney was in a band B4 Wings. it is still no excuse, no mater how aggressive the young girl. as an older fellow one hopes to have obtained the wisdom to know it would be a disaster [and for doyle it probably will be]
                                more hay, less grain

                                Comment


                                • Actually, at 14 she probably never heard of Wings either!!

                                  Comment


                                  • I for one do not know the specifics of this case and the details I do know sound sort of suspicious.....................courts and legal system will decide.. I will refrain from commenting.

                                    BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    As for the "hypotheticals" being discussed on this thread..

                                    It seems a HUGE problem in these speculations has not been addressed...

                                    Shouldn't people at least have enough time in ANY relationship to KNOW exact details about a person before they jump in the sack?????????

                                    Sounds like the local singles bar where it is not important WHO you hook up with as long as you DO hook up (FOR THE NIGHT)!!

                                    The hypotheticals of "sHe lied about her age".."she looks older" and all of that has nothing to do with quality people looking for something more than a few moments of "PERSONAL SATISFACTION"!!!!

                                    I think the city of Amsterdam is a place where those excuses MIGHT be acceptable since thats the motivation there...instant gratification.

                                    In the horse show world of trainers/students/girlfriends one can hope there is enough self control to know exactly who you are messing with BEFORE you mess with them..

                                    The only excuses in the above "hypotheticals" is the lack of self control, self respect and respect for the person on the receiving end of the "affections".....AND THOSE ARE NO EXCUSES...

                                    That's MHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                                    http://www.go-sho.org
                                    [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                    [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                    Comment


                                    • I beg to differ here...I've been in her shoes, been at fault for instigating and relentless pursual...and all the while lying that I was of "legal" age for such behavior. Now, is the man still at fault?

                                      Legally the guy is still at fault!

                                      Statutory Rape (by any of it's myriad of names) is what is called a no mens rea crime. There is no mental element involved. It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thought or believed. The victim can claim to be of proper age. The victim can even engage, entice, request, desire the act. The law doesn't care.

                                      All that matters is:
                                      What was the victims age?
                                      Was there a sexual contact?

                                      Keep in mind, sexual contact is broadly defined.

                                      So, even if the victim lied, or even was asking for sex, society has said NO!

                                      Confused owner of Finders Keepers and Jon William who was sad to learn he couldn't come home like the dogs

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
                                        This is a quote from the USOC Coaching Ethics Code, which applies to all sports under the USOC. There is a similar one as part of the FEI, but I only have that in pdf form, so can't copy and paste... (this is only the section on Sexual harrassment - there are other sections that discuss conflicts of interest, etc.
                                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Gee...so you are saying that it was wrong for the 24 year old assistant trainer to be dating the "older" junior riders he taught? That happened at a barn I used to ride at. Always wondered (if besides the law!) there was anything else wrong with it too.
                                        "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                                        Comment


                                        • Yup, Giddy-up, it is considered unethical by the standards of the USOC, IOC, FEI, et al.

                                          It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!
                                          co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                                          Comment

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