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An Open Letter UPDATE: It's On The Agenda p.8

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  • Zowie! You you guys have given me back my gumption. I admit I was feeling like nobody really cared.

    Count me in for SIG

    I have never understood why the FEI Rules were fine if you had to compete internationally but for what reason should they be suspended at lower levels?

    Rocky the key word is "at the competition".

    Great Job War AdmirAL, I know John Lengel will be thrilled because he as been seeking our help against the vested interests for years.

    It's time the mice learned how to roar like the king of the jungle!

    Battle Scarred Veteran
    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

    Comment


    • Hi Liz.

      Just checking in again. I just wanted to say that I have been stewing about your letter since you first posted it and it is getting me more ticked off (in a good way ) . I have sent it along to some people and I know they will pass it along to their friends too. I really believe in what you said and I am ready to help stir the pot. Stirring the pot is one of my specialties!

      GA Clique/Drafties Clique
      Live Large- Ride a Drafty!

      Comment


      • ON the Ethics part - I re-wrote the German Federation Ethics booklet three years ago. Alan Balch was all for doing SOMETHING - and passed the booklet on to the legal committee for review (even though that was just a draft.) Unfortunately, other politics came to the forefront, and the whole thing got put pretty low on the list. Give the ExComm these days, I suspect it is a no-brainer - they won't do it...

        It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!
        co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

        Comment


        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Horseymama:
          _It is not O.K._ that in order to operate as a professional in this business all one must do is write a letter to the federation "declaring" themselves a professional.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          No offense intended, but what makes you think even the letter is required? Anyone can hang out a shingle and call him/herself a professional. Anyone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


          Bottom line IT IS A DIRTY BUSINESS...if your going to play the game you better have your eyes WIDE OPEN.

          [This message was edited by Weatherford on Dec. 29, 2003 at 06:44 PM.]

          Comment


          • Oh Dear Gawd do not get me started on people who put out the Professional Shingle when they clearly are not even close to being Professional......

            "Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
            "Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"
            http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
            http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
            [url]
            Starman Babies

            Comment


            • Good idea, Bumpkin. I'll start a new thread. Stand by for pot stirring! Muhahahahahahaaaa!
              In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
              A life lived by example, done too soon.
              www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

              Comment


              • "Well Rocky - the current policy on drug use at horse shows by people is WHAT? That's right - nothing. Yet time after time we hear it and read it on BB's about the use - blatant and otherwise. So shall we just continue to ignore it?? Rather than go after it and stop it to keep it quiet and not get bad publicity."


                Ise@ssel-My post had absolutely nothing to do with drug use by people....if you care to read it again you will see that it refers only to horses...I am going to go out on a limb here and and say that the discussion of human drug abuse is a topic for a completely other thread...and not something I want the federation to spend my membership money on. Drug abuse is a national crisis in the USA and agencies greater than the AHSA ( USEF or whatever the hell it is now)with greater resources than the USEF, are already using my tax dollars and are unable to control drug abuse by people.

                Reed-thanks for setting me straight about the FEI rules....those policies are really great for that upper level of showing, but who is going to police the lower level shows. Who is going to make sure that Little Suzie's Short Stirrup horse gets no more than the legal amount of bute, who is going to make sure that some NNT's baby green project isn't getting a 1/2cc of ace before it gets on the trailer to go to the one day "B" show?

                I say test the winners, like 1st-3rd or 4th at every show.

                Make the freaking fines for violators high enough to cover the testing expenses. And as part of the punishment test the offenders -trainers, riders, and owners-often-like every show.

                Make the punishment for using illegal types and amounts of medications hurt everyone involved-trainers owners and riders-this slap on the wrist crap only makes a mockery of the system. These people are going to sit out a few months, pay a token fine, then go back to business as usual.....

                My new barn mantra...MYOB MYOB
                West of nowhere

                Comment


                • I just showed this thread to the UD website.
                  Perhaps people should post it on other websites to send more reactions to the committees.

                  "Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
                  "Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"


                  http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
                  http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
                  [url]
                  Starman Babies

                  Comment


                  • Regarding the "double dipping" and "stacking" of commissions on horse sales, and I totally agree that this has become the norm and that it is nothing more than fraud, there is a simple and inexpensive way to protect yourself against this practice when you purchase horses. It is called, full disclosure. All you have to do is demand a contract signed by buyer, seller and all agents disclosing where all the money goes and who gets what. Now, having said that, buyers have to be reasonable. There are an infinite number of arrangements that are made between sellers and agents...for instance, an agent may take a horse "on the cuff", with boarding, training fees to be paid at time of sale. Such things should be mentioned in a bill of sale, to protect the seller if nothing else. But buyers shouldn't freak about such an entry in the contract.

                    Doing this isn't foolproof. Agents could still conspire to falsify the facts. But if they had signed a contract that had been falsified, and it can be proven....well, you'd have a pretty good case to take to your attorney!

                    I am a professional...have been for years, and I do not and have not stacked commissions. And it makes me nuts to realize that I am in the minority...and that there are trainers who won't buy from me because I won't be a party to this practice. When acting as an agent, I expect a reasonable commission, but I don't think that committing fraud is the way to treat clients or other professionals.I am not advocating any set amount for commissions. That is to be agreed upon between agents/trainers and their clients. I don't have a problem with third party commissions either. Often it is way cheaper to pay another commission to a broker to pre-select horses for a trainer and a client to look at, than to use up valuable time and money "kissing toads". I just think that every one involved should know what is going on.

                    The buyers...the consumers have the ability to correct this. And there are trainers...good ones too...who will stand behind you. More than you might think.

                    Comment


                    • Dear Rocky,

                      I swear, we are all on the same side! Let's not get divided over the details.

                      Write a few emails and put some pressure on the powers that be. Put in that email exactly what you said in your post. We don't all have to agree on the fine print, but I think we all agree on the generalities.

                      The unethical practices that are taking place, the rules that are ignored, the blatent disregard of horsemanship NEEDS TO BE STOPPED.

                      And, it can be. All it takes is some desire. Light a fire under their a**** and it is possible it may become a priority.

                      But if you sit on your a*** and do nothing, then basically you are saying that you agree with the current practices, and accept all the consequences.

                      I say, NO WAY is abuse acceptable. I love my horse, as I know all of you love yours, and it is not acceptable that abuse is committed, without punishment, in competition that the USEF sponsors. To have the abuse REWARDED, by allowing the abusers to continue, with only slight punishment, is just a slap in the face to all of the ethical and responsible people who love the sport AND their horses. Let's not forget that the HORSES are equal partners in the competition, and they have no voices. We are their only advocates, for better or worse.

                      The saddest fact is, by having tolerance for such abuses, the USEF is actually encouraging more of the dishonesty, abuse, and fraud. Those honest folks who find it unacceptable may feel they have no interest in such "competitions". SAD, SAD, SAD.

                      Don't let those ****** get away with it. The least we all can do is let the feelings we have be known. It DOES count for something.

                      Beth

                      [This message was edited by bethkrois on Dec. 29, 2003 at 05:19 AM.]

                      Comment


                      • Now, sponsors, THERE is an interesting idea... Does a trainer you know with a sponsor stack the meds?? Maybe the sponsor should know... Maybe ALL the sponsors whould know!!!

                        This thread gives me a glimmer of hope... but I will admit, it is only a glimmer...

                        It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!
                        co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          CONCRETE PROPOSALS FOR CHANGE:

                          OK, having had more time to think about it, here are the proposals that others have mentioned either here or on the suspension list thread that I think all deserve detailed consideration by USEF:

                          (1) The War Admiral/Hollihorse Proposal: Jack those fines up HUGE and make those suspensions minimum 6 months, or even 1 year or more. Hit the owners as well as the trainers, e.g. for each infraction, trainer pays $15,000 and so does owner. Pursue aggressive collections activity against those who fail to pay. Use the increased revenue to fund the other proposals.

                          (2) The Lord Helpus Proposal: Pull blood from 1-6 but only TEST 2 of those at random. Store the other samples so that if any of 1-6 test positive at some other future event, the prior test(s) can be compared w/ the current test. (I can't help wondering if this might not assist in determining relative amounts of calcium/phosphorus?? Reed are you there??)

                          (3) The Poltroon Proposal: Notices of Penalty should be archived in a database, not JUST online but available by phone or fax to all USEF members.

                          (4) The Kryswyn Initiative: Start an anti-doping campaign among the membership. Lobby USEF for change.

                          (5) The Weatherford Proposal: Study and adapt the German federation Ethics Booklet to use in the USA. Weatherford, I'd loff to know details if you have a chance to post.

                          (6) The MistyBlue Proposal: Rather than a SuperSteward (which I understand is under consideration), get each show to have a NIGHT Steward. Stewards should be available on the grounds 24/7 and their cell/pager numbers should be prominently posted in the show office and listed in the prize list. That way it won't take 2.5 hours to track down a steward if you see an infraction...

                          Did I miss any? These are all great ideas!!

                          ______________

                          Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)
                          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            UPDATE: USEF RESPONDS!!

                            Some very nice e-mails in my in-box this morning, one from our new CEO John Long and one from Brian Sosby (editor of Equestrian). Looks as if the letter will run in Feb. but will be edited down.

                            I don't wish to quote Mr. Long's response w/o his permission (and like a dork I forgot to ask if it was O.K.) - but in essence what he said was:

                            (1) D&M may be the most important item to address this year;

                            (2) It WILL be addressed from many different directions; and

                            (3) THEY NEED OUR SUPPORT AND IDEAS.

                            So keep the ideas coming, and the e-mails going!!

                            ______________

                            Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)
                            "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                            Comment


                            • Excuse me please but we have a topic on the table being discussed and if you guys want a cat fight start your own thread and go at it.

                              WarAdmiral is doing a great job pulling the loose ends together and I look forward to being at the Drugs and Medications Committee meeting to see how they are received.

                              I frankly don't care what your credentials are or what papers you have and I certainly think that the general topic was off topic. I don't know who you are and I don't know who rottenrobbie is; and even more to the point I don't give a rat's ****.

                              You'd be kind if you deleted the whole off topic tangent mess from this thread and let us do some serious creative thinking. And, if I were a moderator I would be pleased to accomodate by doing for you.

                              Battle Scarred Veteran
                              http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                              Comment


                              • GO TO THE CONVENTION!!!!!

                                http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                                http://www.go-sho.org
                                [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                Comment


                                • GOOD WORK LIZ!!!!



                                  Beth

                                  Comment


                                  • GO TO THE CONVENTION!!!!!

                                    I have seen the threads complaining about the cost BUT.....the cost is not out of line!!! I have clients in the barn that go to their "Industry Conventions" so I asked them what it costs them to go...

                                    Holy Cow...ours is REALLY CHEAP in comparison!!

                                    I registered to go and it cost me $75.00 and that includes a Continental Breakfast and "lunch" everyday....that is NOT expensive.

                                    I opted to NOT do the dinners and fancy stuff because I FEEL the real issue and the reason to go is the forums...OF COURSE I would love to sit and do 'tea" with the BNT's but that is not why I am going. I will tour downtown while they dine.

                                    Yes, the hotel costs...well SHARE a room..it takes the cost way down to about the cost of Motel 6!!

                                    And as far as air fare....I have a client who lives on the east coast and they shopped and shopped ticket prices and they are coming round trip for $287 each.

                                    I know it's a bit of money BUT all conventions cost........

                                    AGAIN...COME TO THE CONVENTION AND BE HEARD!!!!

                                    If you can't, then PUT IN WRITING your ideas, complaints and suggestions and send them with someone you trust to get them there!!

                                    It's YOUR association...be heard.

                                    http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                                    http://www.go-sho.org
                                    [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                    [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                    Comment


                                    • OK! so who is going to be at the Annual Meeting (I fail to find any way this is some kind of convention).

                                      Who will be there to discuss this on the floor in front of the committees to persuade them it is a matter of prime importance to everyone as a Member?

                                      And whoever that is should be armed with the emails as well because there's sometimes at that busy time a slippage of paperwork. Even well intentioned people can make mistakes.

                                      Battle Scarred Veteran
                                      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        What I got out of Mr. Long's letter (and I may be reading inaccurately between the lines - if so I grovelingly apologize to him) was that HE NEEDS FEEDBACK from a very broad base of the membership. The more e-mails he gets, the better.

                                        So please, guys, take a minute to e-mail.

                                        We've got an ear there now, let's offer USEF some SUPPORT for dang once instead of 50-plus pages of whining into the empty ears of cyberspace for no apparent reason...

                                        ______________

                                        Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)
                                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                        Comment


                                        • Speaking of sharing, is there anyone going who would like to share a room and the costs?? I have a couple of clients who want to go and will share and I also will share if we can find those interested share people....

                                          http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                                          http://www.go-sho.org
                                          [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                          [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                          Comment

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